(01-12-2014, 09:59 PM)Naunet Wrote:

(01-12-2014, 09:43 PM)John Spiegel Wrote: As for RPing a job like WHM or whatnot, why can't you just be a really strong CNJ? Hell, two of my characters are MNKs straight out of Ala Mhigo during the Garlean's big ol' genocide (second one in five years for them) and JJ's just a dude that's fought his entire life to be free - no guild affiliation or nothing. It's kind of narrow to think just because a character is a great healer or really badass with a lance automatically makes them one thing. I recall that the lancers of Ala Mhigo were the cream of the crop, giving Ishgardian lancers/dragoons a run for their gil.

And what if it's not about being "badass" but about tapping into the themes surrounding a particular job? Telling someone to just be "a really strong CNJ" might be completely contrary to what that person wants to roleplay because a conjurer is not a white mage, and the former does not carry the same themes or historical identity as the latter. Would you tell someone who wants to roleplay a monk "Why can't you just be a really strong PGL?" No, because the two are not the same.

(01-12-2014, 10:12 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: Well.

After that completely unwarranted explosion I think it's safe to say that I'd never want to RP with you, either. I've been on the wrong side of people who let IC affect OOC before and it's not pretty, so I don't really think that peoples' reactions to the way you are expressing your opinion on the matter is that unusual.

Edit: I will say I do appreciate the calmer response to my post, though.

(01-12-2014, 09:16 PM)ArmachiA Wrote:

(01-12-2014, 09:06 PM)Zazalan Wrote: Do many people really care about "RP Fighting"?

Consider how many people show up at the Grindstone every week, I'm going with quite a few.

(01-12-2014, 05:34 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: I don't RP fight. If there has to be battle between a character of mine and a character of someone else's, then it gets written up in forum RP, at least in FFXIV, because we have no dueling or deathmatch function.

Yes, I'm one of "those" RPers that tries to involve gameplay systems as much as possible and I absolutely loathe emote "fighting." If we need to have a good, gripping, edge-of-your-seat battle, I'm going to write it up as a ficlet after talking with the person OOC and determining the outcome.

My reason for wanting to roleplay the jobs is based around my character's roleplay. Aeriyn is a scientist. She studies magic. Her life's work is to create a universal aetherial theory, a method for explaining how all magic, aether, crystals and the various things work, and the various things that happen as a result of these things (including primals, deities, Hydaelyn and Zodiark). So yes, the actual, lore-specific difference between a conjurer and a white mage, a thaumaturge and a black mage, an arcanist and a summoner or scholar... these are big differences in power, in capability and in the methodologies they use to do what they do.

If I just ignored all of that then Aeriyn's roleplay would be far, far less interesting and that would be terrible. She's a black mage, which fortunately there's considerable lore support for this because during the BLM storyline you encounter a whole mess of other black mages, none of whom actually have the Gem of Shatotto. I don't RP Aeriyn as if she has the gem, because that's leaning dangerously close to Super Speshul Snowflake territory. The gem is known to her, as it's part of black mage lore, but she doesn't know where it is. Probably that crazy lala still has it. But Aeri being a black mage ICly, and being taught the arts of the Nymian scholar by Rinah, these things are kind of extremely important to her personal storyline. Disregarding them would be silly.

(01-12-2014, 10:06 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: There is absolutely nothing "meta-game-ingly" about saying, "Hey, this is probably going to be a problem since the in-character Lore says it can't happen."  There is nothing "meta-game-ingly" about a character who has grown up in the Twelveswood, who knows because she was taught this by her trainers and her society that White Mages no longer exist because the magic was forbidden centuries before.  This isn't "meta-game-ing."

The moment you step over the line and tell me how my character should behave because you want acceptance for something that has no support in the Lore of this damn game is the moment I lose my temper and you lose the rest of your credibility.

(01-12-2014, 10:26 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: But we have people in this thread saying, "I'm just going to pretend the Lore doesn't exist because I don't like it."

ArmachiA Wrote:It's actually metagame-y of YOU to say she should be accepting, instead of trying to convince her your character is telling the truth.

(01-13-2014, 01:49 AM)Naunet Wrote: It sounded a lot to me that you were letting your OOC refusal to acknowledge WHM players as possible to affect your character's potential acceptance (or, rather, lack of acceptance) of a white mage character. What if your character and the white mage went on some adventure during which something happened, or multiple somethings happened or who knows what that made it beyond clear that said character was a white mage? Would your character still deny it?

Quote:That's what I'm talking about. That your OOC feelings might lead to a rather unbelievable continual of refusal of that aspect of someone else's character.

Quote:I'm sorry I made you angry, especially as I've always held you in a high regard and hate that I've ruined how you may think of me.

(01-13-2014, 04:24 AM)Ildur Wrote: Do not oversimplify the posture and, more importantly, do not confuse correlation with causation. We are not choosing to ignore this bit of lore "because we don't like it", but because it's inconsistent with the gameplay and incoherent with the genre. I can make a White Mage, you can make a White Mage, anyone can make a White Mage. We all get specific skills unique to each Job. Mechanically, we all can be White Mages. The lore has no business telling us that we can't be White Mages because we can. Gameplay is our empirical demostration of it. I reject (this bit of) lore because it is not coherent . And because of this incoherency I don't like it.

Is my dislike of the lore correlated to my rejection? Yes. Is my dislike of the lore cause of my rejection? No. And what is the correlation between my dislike and my rejection? Their common cause: that it makes no sense.

Quote:I have no idea what you are reading on Naunet's post that makes you think she's demanding acceptance on an In-character level from the beginning. What I got from her post was the following:
The acceptance she is 'demanding' is in the hypothetical case of being given proof. Which would be akin to asking people to accept that she is a Biochemist (spoilers: she might not be one.) after showing them a proof of some sort. The specifics of this proof aren't particularly important. The important thing is if there is such a thing as 'enough proof' for the character to accept that Eric Generic is a <Insert Job here>. And what Naunet was sad about was that she felt Liadan was rejecting any possibility of potential proof, not because it was the in character thing to do, but because of the OOC knowledge she has about the White Mage lore. You know, as in: "My characters does not accept your proof because the lore says you cannot be <funny caption here>." instead of "My character does not accept your proof because of her background."
Which is, incidentally, what she just said in her last post. So I just repeated what she said and this last paragraph is kind of redundant.

I'm sure that makes me real clever, somehow.

(01-13-2014, 04:42 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: It's her choice though. If her character never accepts people proclaiming to be WHM, regardless of reason, it needs to be accepted. If she isn't actively trying to stop you from rping and is only disagreeing icly, regardless if her reason is ooc, it's really up to her if her character accepts proof or not and not anyone else.