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+--- Thread: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations (/showthread.php?tid=11112)
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Chris Ganale - 04-15-2015
No, I'm talking about the Imperial shadows you fight various times over the course of the NIN quests. I remember there being miqo's because I do a little sadface every time I have to kill a catgirl.
But after a while, I got so pissed at that level 40 quest that I was just on a murder'em'all rampage.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Faye - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 04:44 PM)cuideag Wrote: Are you surprised that someone relevant to this thread might be annoyed at your blanket dismissal of their character as something that isn't "believable?"
Well yes, I am. I don't know why I am, given I'm aware how personally a lot of here take everything, and how differing opinions are often somehow interpreted as an attack on the character of anyone who feels differently. Call it a moment of optimism, I guess.
Especially considering...
(04-15-2015, 03:11 PM)Faye Wrote: While I wholeheartedly agree with everything said in the initial post....
(04-15-2015, 04:16 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: Ultimately, this doesn't really change whether or not I'm going to roleplay with someone or not, because I roleplay with everyone regardless. If someone wants to play a pretty cat and be something, then, well, go ahead! I've heard stories of people being bothered in whispers about lorebreaking by random people not even roleplaying with them, but just in the general area, and I really want to keep my name far from that sort of behavior. In the face of the above exceptions, my character will react accordingly, but otherwise? I still love all of you!
(04-15-2015, 03:11 PM)Faye Wrote: ....which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone...
But let's just ignore that part and focus on the bits of the post that we can yell about.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Meena - 04-15-2015
Lets get back on topic and just ignore the filibustering. What matters is the integrity of the argument!
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Meena - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 04:55 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: No, I'm talking about the Imperial shadows you fight various times over the course of the NIN quests. I remember there being miqo's because I do a little sadface every time I have to kill a catgirl.
But after a while, I got so pissed at that level 40 quest that I was just on a murder'em'all rampage.
If so, it would only prove that -garlemald- has Miqo'te. In my head cannon, I expect they aren't common at all in Doma or outside this mainland. Remember, Doman's aren't even used to Chocobo's (stupid horsebirds).
If anyone can grab a screenie of those, i'd love to see - I was certain that in the Shinobi quests the other people accompanying him are usually thaumaturges and other fighters - not all Shinobi as the big bad guy Kurasu? Karasu? Crow (in japanese) is the main bad focus of evil ninjaness..
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Chris Ganale - 04-15-2015
Well, different strokes, I guess. As was said up-thread somewhere, given that Doma has been heavily trading with Limsa for years and years, and Limsa has a large enclave of miqo's, it doesn't strike me as at all odd that there would be miqo's in Doma. Any sort of majority? No. But enough to justify having one as a character.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Ette - 04-15-2015
I mean once more for me it just boils down to: Who cares?
While I stick closer to lore in this setting there ARE things that are plausible if not rare and I’ve taken interest in inside other settings. Like. . . I don’t roleplay  to impress people with how staggeringly lore friendly my characters are. I roleplay to have fun. So if I have to choose between something that gets me excited to write about and something I enjoy or appeasing internet strangers who I wouldn’t have played with anyway I’m just. . . Gonna choose the former?
And as someone who isn’t playing anything too lore bendy at the moment I would much rather play with say, a Roegadyn dragoon than someone who is playing an Elezen archer if the former is more fun and engaging.
TL;DR
“Because it’s fun.†I say as I shrug a whole lot.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Meena - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 05:02 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: Well, different strokes, I guess. As was said up-thread somewhere, given that Doma has been heavily trading with Limsa for years and years, and Limsa has a large enclave of miqo's, it doesn't strike me as at all odd that there would be miqo's in Doma. Any sort of majority? No. But enough to justify having one as a character.
Well, we know that Doma is a SMALL island nation. Probably around the size of my own country. We know they exported exotic fruits and were conquered by the empire. Also the fact their nation is based lore-wise (confirmed by naoki P) on japan makes it very irregular for me to believe that the doman people would accept any others outside the two majority race apart from force.
Because it took forever until Japan accepted anything from anyone.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - cuideag - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 03:11 PM)Faye Wrote: While I wholeheartedly agree with everything said in the initial post, I believe we all already know why people do this--people want to have their cake and eat it, too. Why not be a super cool and strong Ishgardian dragoon and be a sexy cat boy/girl (which is why it's always Miqo'te...)?
Oops.
(04-15-2015, 03:11 PM)Faye Wrote: Patronizing meme featuring minorities used in a thread about minorities.
Oops.
(04-15-2015, 03:11 PM)Faye Wrote: Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability, which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone, I just may not always think it's the best decision, so I try to shy away from it myself.
Oops.
One okay thing doesn't dismiss a whole post full of salt.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Chris Ganale - 04-15-2015
Not true. The Dutch and Portuguese extensively traded with feudal-era Japan, and notable daimyo such as Oda Nobunaga and Date Masamune were all about foreign technology, even to the point that Date was so friendly to foreigners he established dialogue with the Pope, launched Japan's first across-the-world naval expedition, and invited Christians to practice, preach, and live in his territories.
And there were at least three well-known instances of foreigners actually becoming samurai, but those mostly took place in the Tokugawa shogunate and I'd have to look them up to give proper details on them.
While it is true that the Dutch and Portuguese were largely limited to one tiny little fort in Tokyo Bay, that doesn't change the fact that they were there. It wasn't, in fact, until mid-to-late Tokugawa shogunate that Japan went the route of "ALL GAIJIN BAD :<<< WE NO LYKE U HEER"
Apologies for the real-world loredump, Senogku era history is a bit of an amateur hobby of mine.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Edda - 04-15-2015
![[Image: KJf5OxU.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/KJf5OxU.jpg)
Holy shit these threads today. Makin' some waves.
If it's apparent some of us have so much of a problem with how other people roleplay, maybe we should focus our combined energies into petitioning Square Enix to remove the cap on our blacklists.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Meena - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 05:10 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: Not true. The Dutch and Portuguese extensively traded with feudal-era Japan, and notable daimyo such as Oda Nobunaga and Date Masamune were all about foreign technology, even to the point that Date was so friendly to foreigners he established dialogue with the Pope, launched Japan's first across-the-world naval expedition, and invited Christians to practice, preach, and live in his territories.;-; I'm more into the heian period of japanese culture. Hgnn, poetry! Hgnn, Tankas!
And there were at least three well-known instances of foreigners actually becoming samurai, but those mostly took place in the Tokugawa shogunate and I'd have to look them up to give proper details on them.
While it is true that the Dutch and Portuguese were largely limited to one tiny little fort in Tokyo Bay, that doesn't change the fact that they were there. It wasn't, in fact, until mid-to-late Tokugawa shogunate that Japan went the route of "ALL GAIJIN BAD :<<< WE NO LYKE U HEER"
Apologies for the real-world loredump, Senogku era history is a bit of an amateur hobby of mine.
Hgnn priest eduction. *swoon*
Sadly, I just try and stick by what i can gather/hoard from NPC's in game or plot line. Its hard when this is essentially the lore gievn by the game:
Legitimate:Â ndjfndjivghgnvhjchvjkbyuvghviughvmjxuhnb uivmu______________mnfvgbnhbxcbvvjfzmkv
Devs: Oh shit, theres a blank there guys.... We got dis.
Legitimate: ndjfndjivghgnvhjchvjkbyuvghviughvmjxuhnbuivmuQUICKLYUSETHEGLUEGUN.EXPLAINITWITHMAGICmnfvgbnhbxcbvvjfzmkv
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Chris Ganale - 04-15-2015
Haha, yeah, I'm completely stupid on any period not Sengoku so I can sympathize. Utter truth about the way the lore gun is wielded less with grace and tact and more like a child with a chainsaw.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Faye - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 05:06 PM)cuideag Wrote:(04-15-2015, 03:11 PM)Faye Wrote: Patronizing meme featuring minorities used in a thread about minorities.
Oops.
Are you seriously trying to make this an argument of RL race now? Really??? Really?
The meme was not meant to be patronizing in any way. I actually thought it might lighten the mood of the post, but perhaps that's just because I find the commercial hilarious because the meme has become a sort of running joke with a few friends and is frequently spammed in our FC every time someone is trying to make a choice between two things. Not even going to touch on the "minority" stuff because that's just really grasping at straws.But back on topic and disregarding that nonsense, to elaborate on my own thoughts, there are exceptions to every rule. Anyone is welcome to RP as they please, and I've always found sending people personal messages about how their character's backstory is "wrong," or demanding an explanation how it fits into the lore, is rather silly and rude. Playing these exceptions is often alluring, but the problem is that when the majority wants to role-play the "exception," it stops being the "exception."
There's really no way to work around it except to just sort of handwave it and pretend it makes sense canonically (such as how lorewise, Miqo'te are supposed to be a very rare and secluded people, yet they make up a huge chunk of the player character population). After all, we can't have any sort of RP police telling people what they can or can't role-play to allow a privileged few to play the "exceptions" for a plethora of reasons ranging from the obvious ethical wrongness to the fact that others could simply just ignore them.
If I have a concept I really like that involves an unlikely combination of templates or traits, I'll still go with it if it interests me enough and I'll do my best to make it work. I'm not going to refrain from RPing something I'd really enjoy just because it's "unlikely" and I don't expect anyone else to do the same. Otherwise, though, I try to keep it simple. Unless there's some concept I'm really sold on, I try to refrain from being "exception" when I can. I'm not usually drawn toward those sorts of characters since I prefer things more straightforward and by-the-book (I play an elf to be snooty. I play a villain to be evil. I play a mage to cast spells, etc.), but it almost feels kinda like a courtesy thing. And since it seems to need saying--no, I don't expect anyone else to do the same, that's just how I approach the topic.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Tiergan - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 05:26 PM)Faye Wrote: <snip because super long>
Faye, I heart you, but I have to admit that when I read "Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone, I just may not always think it's the best decision, so I try to shy away from it myself." it was a little off-putting.
You may not have meant it that way, but for those of us that are being labeled as 'inauthentic' because we're not playing Isghardian Elezen or Ala Mhigan Highlanders, it sort of reads like:
"Ultimately, these people want to make characters that please themselves over making characters that are believable and lore-abiding. I'm not saying this is inherently bad or anything and I'll still RP with someone whose character is more about satisfying the player's wants over being a realistic character -- I just don't think it's a good idea."
If that's how you actually feel, that's okay. But I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect people might be sore about how they were labeled.
RE: Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations - Flashhelix - 04-15-2015
(04-15-2015, 05:06 PM)cuideag Wrote: Patronizing meme
![[Image: bf4c65d96a.png]](http://puu.sh/hfinM/bf4c65d96a.png)
(04-15-2015, 05:40 PM)Tiergan Wrote: Faye, I heart you, but I have to admit that when I read "Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone, I just may not always think it's the best decision, so I try to shy away from it myself." it was a little off-putting.
I'm pretty sure that how Faye put it is quite possibly the most polite way anybody could. It's not believable. How is somebody supposed to put it? Because looking at a character concept that isn't very believable and going "That's not very believable" doesn't exactly constitute a personal attack or passive-aggressive jab at any group.