(06-09-2015, 02:43 PM)Intaki Wrote: I think it would be more appropriate to say they pick and choose who to teach Succor to. Because as the history of the world itself shows once that knowledge leaves the Elementals proverbial lips it is beyond their control what gets done with it.

As far as I am aware the White Mages still learned from the Elementals in the old days. But unlike the Padjal they spread that knowledge far and wide.

(06-09-2015, 03:45 PM)Intaki Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:55 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: I honestly just don't believe the Elementals wouldn't know if someone accessed the Succor without their permission. They have such tight control on it, it just doesn't make sense they wouldn't know.

"Would they know" is an interesting question. But "can they do anything about it other than throw a violent tantrum" appears to be largely answered by existing lore: no, they can't.

I'm certainly open to being proven wrong, but if the Elementals can just flip a switch and turn off the Succor at will, and if existing White Mages can not bring more mages into the fold, it calls into question all of the history and actions taken in regard to the subject.

(06-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Nako Wrote: What if, by flooding the world, and thus ending the mage war, it was the quickest way to heal the damage done. People stopped using magic, and it was forgotten/fell out of practice.

(06-09-2015, 04:03 PM)Intaki Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Nako Wrote: What if, by flooding the world, and thus ending the mage war, it was the quickest way to heal the damage done. People stopped using magic, and it was forgotten/fell out of practice.

But then why did they go to such great lengths to hide Amdapor and all of its surviving knowledge away? If they could just take White Magic away on a whim, what would it matter if that civilization was later discovered and learned from?

(06-09-2015, 04:03 PM)Intaki Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 03:52 PM)Nako Wrote: What if, by flooding the world, and thus ending the mage war, it was the quickest way to heal the damage done. People stopped using magic, and it was forgotten/fell out of practice.

But then why did they go to such great lengths to hide Amdapor and all of its surviving knowledge away? If they could just take White Magic away on a whim, what would it matter if that civilization was later discovered and learned from?

(06-09-2015, 04:15 PM)Zarek Wrote: Not having a single horse in this race, my uneducated guess would be making a pretty HUGE example. Typically, if you make a big enough example once you never have to do so again.

(06-09-2015, 04:28 PM)Intaki Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 04:15 PM)Zarek Wrote: Not having a single horse in this race, my uneducated guess would be making a pretty HUGE example. Typically, if you make a big enough example once you never have to do so again.

How are they making an example when they tried to wipe out every trace that it ever happened in the first place?

And in response to Nako: I don't think anyone is contesting the capability of the Elementals to go out and inflict their will via force. The specific point of contention is whether or not they have direct, total control of the art of magic that is Succor.

(06-08-2015, 11:30 PM)Intaki Wrote:

(06-08-2015, 10:17 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Um... every tree is an Elemental. Every stream, every boulder. They are the world.

They're a forest. One forest. A big forest, sure. If elementals exist outside the Black Shroud, they haven't exhibited totalitarian tendencies that their exceptional Shroud brethren have. They haven't even exhibited any signs of sympathy or alliance to the Black Shroud elementals.

Waldew Wrote:Waldew: Listen, adventurer, to the rustling leaves, the flowing rivers- to the very pulse of this land. We conjurers of Stillglade Fane interpret these whispers of the Elementals and convey them to the people of Gridania.

The Call of Nature Wrote:Ingram: Put your ear to the Twelveswood, sister, and listen with all your being. Know - not fear - know that the Elementals are there. And when you feel that it is they that comprise the life that flows through us all, you will begin to hear their whispers.

Good Knight, Sweet Dreams Wrote:Soileine: Perhaps it was the Elementals within the knight's metals whose voices he heard.

Seeds of Initiative Wrote:Raya-O-Senna: Now, these misbehaving Elementals would have long been pacified, but for the fact that most incidents transpire outside the Twelveswood. I am duty-bound to the forest, you see, and cannot attend to the matter, while Stillglade Fane has not the manpower to spare at present for an undertaking beyond our borders. But you, Sounsyy - you may do what we Gridanians cannot. So I bid you journey forth to quell the keening of the Elementals throughout Eorzea.

Dendrological Duties Wrote:Soileine: Elementals abound in the Twelveswood around Gridania. Unto them falls the task of protecting the forest. And unto us falls the task of protecting them. To that end, we have laid the Hedge - a magical barrier formed by our order and the Elementals that serves to turn away outside evils. Those who would breach it invite our vengeance. We are the conjurers - intermediaries of nature and man. Our place is between Gridanians and the Elementals. The majority of our citizenry are deaf to the forest's whispers. Yet all feel the presence of the Elementals, as surely as they feel hot and cold.

(06-08-2015, 11:30 PM)Intaki Wrote: Mortals already put the elementals under threat before; the elementals were so terrified they felt the need to flood the whole place clean. And mortals did that without even meaning to!

Imagine if you will a legion of Black Mages and White Mages with stolen succor. Then imagine that these mages want something from the elementals and threaten to aggressively and specifically rip the life and aether out of the Black Shroud if they don't get what they want.

(06-09-2015, 07:17 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: Much of 1.0 was officially retconned and dusted up under the rug. If it is not mention in 2.0, it's not of importance. If it does get mentioned, then sure, I'll change my mind, but until that point, it's an exercise in futility and expecting the community to know about it, much less actually give any thought or regard to matter, is frankly absurd.

(06-09-2015, 02:32 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Some Jobs actually use the Soul Crystal to pass on the knowledge of the skills involved in the Job.  White Mage is not one of them.

Seeds of Initiative Wrote:Raya-O-Senna: And, as you act in my name, I hereby permit you the use of white magic. <Player Character begins to glow.> Take here this linkpearl and Soul of the White Mage. The latter is an ancient crystal imbued with the light of succor - by its power, the forbidden art will be yours to wield, albeit within the bounds of your skill as a conjurer.

To walk the path of the white mage is to devote oneself to the salving of hurts and the lifting of misery - ours is the hand that proffers comfort. Should it every come to light that you have used your powers for less virtuous ends, be forewarned you will promptly be dispossessed of the crystal and summarily punished.

Heart of the Forest Wrote:A-Towa-Cant: I lived a long and fruitful life. But when I drew my last breath in O'Ghomoro that day, I did so with one profound regret- that I would pass from this realm without finding a worthy inheritor to bequeath my knowledge in full. My spirit left my lifeless body to abide in this soul crystal, with the hope that one day it would find its way into the hands of my successor. From the moment you took my crystal in hand, I knew. Padjal or no, I had at long last found one to whom I could truly pass on my knowledge.

(06-09-2015, 07:27 PM)Intaki Wrote: I'm aware that elementals exist beyond the Shroud; I acknowledged that fact at some point a while ago. The majority of my comments have been directed toward the Black Shroud elementals in particular as they are the only elementals that seem particularly bent toward setting and enforcing policy.

(06-08-2015, 11:30 PM)Intaki Wrote:

(06-08-2015, 10:17 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Um... every tree is an Elemental. Every stream, every boulder. They are the world.

They're a forest. One forest. A big forest, sure. If elementals exist outside the Black Shroud, they haven't exhibited totalitarian tendencies that their exceptional Shroud brethren have. They haven't even exhibited any signs of sympathy or alliance to the Black Shroud elementals.

Quote:My proposed hypothetical was more of a thought exercise than a proposition on what may occur in the near future. The gist of my point in voicing that particular line of thought is that the elementals have remained static while the mortals progress.

And I feel like by now it should go without saying, but "never" has proven to be a very dangerous word in Eorzea. Most of the characters we've seen who follow the mantra of "never" tend to have a poor record of survival.

(06-09-2015, 08:46 PM)Sin Wrote: I think it's clear to me that if Elementals could simply turn off succor a lot of their actions wouldn't make full sense. Certainly, the new nefarious ways of obtaining White Magic mentioned in Las Vegas would be irrelevant since you know even if you get it through your nefarious brilliance... first elemental that spots you is going to turn it off. No, I think they take a much more hand's on approach to policing the use of Succor by hiding the art away, being extremely selective of the practitioners, and slaying whoever doesn't follow the rules to the letter.

I don't think we're due for some large scale Elemental's go HAM greenwrath in the future simply because of the aforementioned weakening due to the Calamity. They're in no position to rage. Unless you mean the very far future... like in seven expansions.

(06-09-2015, 05:52 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Actually, the argument could go either way for the soulstone.

Seeds of Initiative Wrote:Raya-O-Senna: And, as you act in my name, I hereby permit you the use of white magic. <Player Character begins to glow.> Take here this linkpearl and Soul of the White Mage. The latter is an ancient crystal imbued with the light of succor - by its power, the forbidden art will be yours to wield, albeit within the bounds of your skill as a conjurer.

To walk the path of the white mage is to devote oneself to the salving of hurts and the lifting of misery - ours is the hand that proffers comfort. Should it every come to light that you have used your powers for less virtuous ends, be forewarned you will promptly be dispossessed of the crystal and summarily punished.

Heart of the Forest Wrote:A-Towa-Cant: I lived a long and fruitful life. But when I drew my last breath in O'Ghomoro that day, I did so with one profound regret- that I would pass from this realm without finding a worthy inheritor to bequeath my knowledge in full. My spirit left my lifeless body to abide in this soul crystal, with the hope that one day it would find its way into the hands of my successor. From the moment you took my crystal in hand, I knew. Padjal or no, I had at long last found one to whom I could truly pass on my knowledge.

(06-09-2015, 09:10 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: Would be kind of fun though if one of the expansions was the Elementals regaining their power and then turning on the mortals.

Greenwrath, Greenwrath everywhere.