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+--- Thread: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? (/showthread.php?tid=6098)
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - TheLastCandle - 01-19-2014
Owlbears, mang.
Owlbears.
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - Twinflame - 01-19-2014
(01-19-2014, 03:00 AM)ansemaru Wrote: Not going to lie, it's a massive pet peeve of mine. Unless it's directly stated in lore, a bunch of sentient species don't just pop out of the aether fully formed, and as long as they have DNA, they still ought to be beholden to at least some version of how genetics and evolution work.
God, I wish I didn't love fantasy so much. In my heart of hearts I want things to operate like science fiction. But fantasy tropes and design. Ugh.
Great fantasy readers write magic that reads as solid as science. This is why I like to establish detailed headcanons. Back in TERA I literally charted the mana-flows in a healthy body so that I know exactly what my priest was doing when he healed someone and could explain how and why it worked.
Anyway, even saying "magic could have happened" does not preclude the Common Ancestor Hypothesis. Padjal are created by magic, but we all know that they are descended from Gridanians. I'm not saying that the evolutionary paths of all the races is completely legit and natural. It actually seems unlikely to me that they are. I would guess that at some point Miqo'te were magically altered, either by design or by accident, to have animal features. There's no lore on that, though, so it falls into a massive gray area that is better debated in-character than in a forum like this (assuming any of you, like me, enjoy IC anthropology debates lol).
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - Kailia - 01-19-2014
Sorry I found this video, and I totally thought of this thread:
[youtube]dPBn_5jer1g[/youtube]
I think overall, it still comes down to personal preferences. Some people believe in evolution. Others don't. Some people think miqo'te are one thing. Others believe another. Again, it comes down to personal preferences. Debates are good, but when they go around in circles, with one side trying to convince the other side they are wrong, and the other side is doing the same, it doesn't end well.
That's why I think everyone should agree to respect each other's play styles, and worry about how they themselves RP their miqo'te, and less on how others roleplay their miqo'te. Me, I try my best to stay within lore, as I am sure we all do. And I am sure everyone has their own different interpretation on the lore.
My own interpretation is that the miqo'te are based on cats. To what degree, is completely up to me. And I tend to use in game to figure out my own acceptable limits. I look at the U tribe for example, and I definitely see a lot of lion pride basis. And it fits with the lore supplied as well. The game also supports those who want a more human feel, as we seen with the arcanist questlines, though we also saw in the same questlines, some feline tendancies as well.
So when it comes to debates, probably the best tactic in them, is to just put out your opinion and if someone offers an opinion you disagree with, respect that it is their opinion, unless they want clarifications or whatever. That's the stance I tend to take.
Also, definitely surprising that we will see mention of inter-species breeding later down the road. I wonder if we will be seeing an actual cross-bred character in some form? That could be interesting, though be kinda odd if they take like a Roegadyn and give him/her Miqo'te features XD. Or even something half miqo, half lala. Though thinking about that... that would be like too damn cute!!!
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - ansemaru - 01-19-2014
I dunno about you, but I wouldn't want to RP with someone who didn't believe in evolution, point blank. I could tolerate them believing that it doesn't exist in Hydaelyn/exists in Hydaelyn in a fashion that is distinct from how it works in the real world, but if they don't believe in it in general, it's a rock-solid sticking point for me. It's all well and good to say "everyone's headcanon is valid", but that's a thing that goes beyond headcanon.
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - LiadansWhisper - 01-19-2014
(01-19-2014, 05:52 AM)ansemaru Wrote: I dunno about you, but I wouldn't want to RP with someone who didn't believe in evolution, point blank. I could tolerate them believing that it doesn't exist in Hydaelyn/exists in Hydaelyn in a fashion that is distinct from how it works in the real world, but if they don't believe in it in general, it's a rock-solid sticking point for me. It's all well and good to say "everyone's headcanon is valid", but that's a thing that goes beyond headcanon.
Edit #2 (the nicer, more caffeinated version): What someone believes OOCly should have 0 bearing on RP. I guarantee you that you have RP'd with people who don't believe as you do on multiple occasions. You may have even RP'd with people who don't believe in Evolution. Gasp! I know, it's a terrifying thought, but there you have it.
Out of Character and In-Character aren't supposed to meet. They're supposed to be wholly separate, because if you're crossing the two - or can't see the line between them - you probably need to put the game down and walk away until you do. Mixing fantasy with reality until you can't tell the difference is bad. It's really, really bad.
I don't care what someone believes out of character. People are entitled to believe what they want, even if I don't agree with them. That's what tolerance is, btw. It's allowing that your beliefs are not always shared by others. As long as someone is not actively attempting to harm me due to their beliefs, I don't have the right to disparage them or mistreat them.
I would think that in the RP scene, where most all of us have been exposed to trolling, hazing, and other forms of bullying because we do something that's a little different, that people find a little weird, that RPers would be a bit more tolerant than the average person.
But I guess that's what I get for thinking.
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - ansemaru - 01-19-2014
RPing is an activity I do for fun, out of a sense of camaraderie with others. If I have reason to believe that a person I'm RPing with fundamentally disagrees with something that important to me OOC, it's going to permanently impact my opinion of them and make it harder for me as a person to enjoy RPing with them. As much as I believe in the IC/OOC divide and tolerating other people, knowing such things is going to ultimately color my perspective on a person. And there are some things I draw the line at.
I know not everyone I RP with is going to agree with me on everything. And there are a lot of things I can, in fact, agree to disagree about. But if someone outright states that they don't agree with the theory of evolution, I'm not going to be able to see them as a friend and I'm not going to enjoy them as a roleplaying partner. I have to draw the line somewhere, and I'm fully aware that it may make me unappealing to other people, just as they may be unappealing to me. Ultimately, it's the trade I make.
Like, ultimately? If I'm never going to interact with a person OOC anyway, you're right. Their beliefs don't matter. But they do matter a great deal the moment we step out of character to talk as friends or equals, and the moment we try to plan anything more than spontaneous IC interaction.
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - LiadansWhisper - 01-19-2014
(01-19-2014, 07:02 AM)ansemaru Wrote: RPing is an activity I do for fun, out of a sense of camaraderie with others. If I have reason to believe that a person I'm RPing with fundamentally disagrees with something that important to me OOC, it's going to permanently impact my opinion of them and make it harder for me as a person to enjoy RPing with them. As much as I believe in the IC/OOC divide and tolerating other people, knowing such things is going to ultimately color my perspective on a person. And there are some things I draw the line at.
I know not everyone I RP with is going to agree with me on everything. And there are a lot of things I can, in fact, agree to disagree about. But if someone outright states that they don't agree with the theory of evolution, I'm not going to be able to see them as a friend and I'm not going to enjoy them as a roleplaying partner. I have to draw the line somewhere, and I'm fully aware that it may make me unappealing to other people, just as they may be unappealing to me. Ultimately, it's the trade I make.
Like, ultimately? If I'm never going to interact with a person OOC anyway, you're right. Their beliefs don't matter. But they do matter a great deal the moment we step out of character to talk as friends or equals, and the moment we try to plan anything more than spontaneous IC interaction.
I think this is one of the most judgmental and intolerant things I've ever read on an RP forum.
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - ArmachiA - 01-19-2014
(01-19-2014, 07:02 AM)ansemaru Wrote: RPing is an activity I do for fun, out of a sense of camaraderie with others. If I have reason to believe that a person I'm RPing with fundamentally disagrees with something that important to me OOC, it's going to permanently impact my opinion of them and make it harder for me as a person to enjoy RPing with them. As much as I believe in the IC/OOC divide and tolerating other people, knowing such things is going to ultimately color my perspective on a person. And there are some things I draw the line at.
I know not everyone I RP with is going to agree with me on everything. And there are a lot of things I can, in fact, agree to disagree about. But if someone outright states that they don't agree with the theory of evolution, I'm not going to be able to see them as a friend and I'm not going to enjoy them as a roleplaying partner. I have to draw the line somewhere, and I'm fully aware that it may make me unappealing to other people, just as they may be unappealing to me. Ultimately, it's the trade I make.
Like, ultimately? If I'm never going to interact with a person OOC anyway, you're right. Their beliefs don't matter. But they do matter a great deal the moment we step out of character to talk as friends or equals, and the moment we try to plan anything more than spontaneous IC interaction.
Whaaattt?? I hate to tell you but political/Religious/Scientific/whatever beliefs really don't have any bearing on whether or not someone becomes a friend on a video game. You're talking about other things really - like your characters or the kind of movies you like or the story lore or what tomes you need.
I've made some really good friends in this game (Shout out to Darien Cadell) and I talk to them every. Single. Day. for hours. I roleplay with them at least 3 or 4 times a week. I've known them since September.
I could not tell you what their beliefs are on evolution and honestly, I don't care. I really can't believe that it's so important to you that they believe exactly what you do that you would refuse to interact with them.
Maybe they're just good people?
Maybe you like the same movies?
Maybe your characters get along?
There are other things.
I'm seriously imagining someone going "I enjoyed our session and we seem to get along, but before we continue how do you feel about evolution?" and I can't stop laughing.
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - ansemaru - 01-19-2014
If it isn't a problem to you, it isn't a problem to you. But if I find out someone's OOC beliefs clash with mine in a way that could be a serious problem, I'm going to have trouble being friends with them or rping with them. It's better in the long run to go "sorry, I don't really want to RP" than to get dragged into a long-term friendship with someone who disagrees with you on fundamental things or even has beliefs that invalidate important parts of your life. If I never find out, I never find out. And I'm absolutely not telling anybody how they should pick their RP partners.
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - Ilwe'ran - 01-19-2014
I find kinda funny to see a topic about how a miqo'te can use his cat tail and ears going onto a discussion about how problematic it can be to RP with people that don't have the same OOC beliefs than you.
About all that talk around the biology, physic and stuff on the game, I would like to remind to people that it's a game and developer aren't some kind of biologist or researchers that have to explain everything. They create a game, they are not studying a place they just discovered, it's completly different.
So yeah, maybe creatures are poping out of the aether and unicorns fart rainbows. If devs want, it will be this way and if players want, they can use their whole imagination to find some other reasons for what is happening.
There is nothing linked to the theory of evolution or anything else in a fantastic universe. It's a game and people, even if they like to RP there, have to NOT forget that a game or an imaginary place cannot be studied the same way we do IRL and it's NOT the purpose anyway.
What you said, Ansemaru, remind me how much I tend to dislike lores. Not because the lore is something bad, in fact I quite like informations inside. What I dislike is people that tend to limit the world to that lore. For me, when they push you away because you don't fit that lore perfectly, it sound like if IRL someone was pushing me away because I don't fit perfectly what people think about my culture, my gender, my role or something else (simply think about some people reaction with homosexual wedding, like "hey it's not in the lore", it's exactly how I feel with people not open to differences).
Edit : And I have to add here, before someone jump on my throat that this part of my message didn't launch an arrow on some specific people ._. .
I won't talk about your way to enjoy or not RP and talking with people, everybody is free to do what they want. Just don't forget it's a game. And the fun part of the game is you can escape to reality and this needs to be tolerant.
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - Naunet - 01-19-2014
(01-19-2014, 03:57 AM)K Wrote: Some people believe in evolution. Others don't.
You still think I'm a creationist???? XDDD
[edit] This whole conversation just got really, really weird. Let's get back on topic, mkay?
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - Twinflame - 01-19-2014
(01-19-2014, 07:07 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I think this is one of the most judgmental and intolerant things I've ever read on an RP forum.
Quoted for truth.
"As much as I believe in tolerance, I admit that I'm an intolerant bigot who is completely unwilling to interact -- even in passing -- with with millions of people from many different backgrounds." Ansemaru, paraphrased
How did that even end up in this conversation?
RE: How cat-like is your Miqo'te? - FreelanceWizard - 01-19-2014
Aaaand that's the end of this thread.
I don't want to start throwing out warnings, but the level of ad hominem and personal attacks has been going up a fair amount recently. We're all in this together trying to make sense of the lore and have fun in RP. Let's stick to discussions of RP, not discussions of people's personal OOC beliefs, religious, political, or otherwise.
EDIT: In case there's any confusion, if you want to continue the discussion on the anthropology/biology/evolution/etc. of miqo'te, please feel free to do so. This particular thread was locked because of how far off the rails and vicious it had gotten.