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+--- Thread: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? (/showthread.php?tid=10224)
Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Y'lani - 02-21-2015
The title explains my question fairly well, but I will elaborate on my stance to make more sense.
I play a character from a Miqo'te tribe that severely distrusts outsiders. They know Eorzean because of their roots, being a splinter of the Jaguar (Y) tribe, but in general they speak in a tribal dialect to better engage with only other tribe members. This is one of Y'lani's many trials; her tribe is absurdly cautious, for the more acquainted with the outside world she becomes, the less they feel they can trust her coming back to the tribe.
Her tribe's dialect has driven her to only know Eorzean in bits and pieces. Except I don't know how plausible this is, and I was hoping for more lore on the subject. That's about it! I don't want to retcon her, but I do want to learn more about Eorzea's different dialects and languages, and if hers... works. I have not used her dialect in roleplay, nor do I expect she will - but I would like to keep her scattered dialogue until she better learns the language.Â
What do you all think? The question isn't exclusively for my own character, so feel free to dump as much lore on dialects and languages in Eorzea as you can!
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Sounsyy - 02-21-2015
So, this all sounds pretty plausible to me, even likely. Eorzean is the "common tongue" however, Fernehalwes mentioned that each race has its own language (and likely even different dialects of it within that) but that most of these languages are older and either not spoken as frequently as they once were or forgotten entirely.
The common examples were brought up in the Naming Conventions threads for Roegadyn and Miqo'te specifically, wherein both races had a more ancient language that had since been mostly forgotten, but their naming conventions and such were left over from it. Miqo'te had that guttural hissing language that no other race could emulate and Roegadyn had well... Roegadyn? I don't recall what the language was called if it even had a name.
Each of the Beast Tribes also has their own language. Sylphic, High Sylphic, etc. The Sahagin's language is called "Bloodcant" and several Reavers and Sea Wolf pirates learned to speak it in 1.0.
So I think an insular Miqo'te Tribe would actually have its own dialect separate from Common Tongue or even other Miqo'te, even if only by a little. So definitely play with it! ^^ Would like to RP with your character sometime and hear it!
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Ilwe'ran - 02-21-2015
Ilwe isn't Eorzean native and so, not a native speaker as well. Part of his language has the same root as the Elezen due to the origins of his clan. So here I cheat a bit, as I'm french myself, when I want him to speak his native language, I RP in french (hehehe) and hope it helps others a bit for their immersion. Of course, if there are some Elezen in the group, I ask them if they know a bit of their old language and gives them an insight of what was said if they want =3 .
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Bryn - 02-21-2015
I am constantly saddened by the fact that only the language of the Roegadyn has been given any spotlight by FFXIV's devs.
They have stated numerous times in interviews that, despite having allied in recent years for mutual survival, Eorzea's population remains fragmented along racial and 'tribal' lines. It seems natural to me that in such situations each 'tribe' would have not only its own cultural practices (again, as stated by SE), but also its own languages.
In support of this, we can look to Eorzea's naming conventions. We of course have the Roegadyn dictionary as a result of explaining where those often hard-to-read Roe names come from. But a glance at the official lore forums explicitly states that the races draw their names from Earth cultures.
Take, for example, the Hyur. Midlanders have names from Anglo-Saxon and British Celtic languages. The Highlanders, on the other hand, have names based in old Germanic languages (Two prominent Highlander characters in the lore/game, Theodoric and Hildebrand, draw their names from Germanic history and legend, respectively).
As for Roegadyn, it's fairly easy to see that the language is a modified form of the modern day Scandinavian languages. This fits well, as the Sea Wolves are clearly modelled off of the Viking culture with their old sailing, warring and pillaging ways.
With all this in mind, it's reasonable to assume that there were once many languages in Eorzea, and that elements of those old racial and tribal languages aside from those of the Roegadyn could survive alongside the common tongue. I personally RP my Highlander character as speaking one of the 'old Ala Mhigan' tongues, a kind of modified old German. One day I'll sit down and formerly create the language, just for funzies.
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Magellan - 02-21-2015
My first character (an Elezen) grew up in a very withdrawn clan in the Shroud. She didn't know how to read or write common Eorzean, until she was taught it much later in life. Never seemed to cause an issue with anyone (as in, telling me it was lore-inaccurate).
My current character (a Keeper) is even more withdrawn, and quite literally has a severe lack of any language. Though she is learning. I feel such things give added depth and mystery to the Shroud, which in my mind at least, is supposed to have many hidden, even unspoilt areas.
Likewise, anytime someone rp's a tribal Seeker, I do a little cheer, as I feel it gives the deserts of Ul'dah so much added flavor... there should be clans out there, hidden in the dryest areas, that still haven't assimilated into the cultural melting pot Eorzea seems to be at times. I would welcome more and more racial and cultural lore, as at the heart of Eorzea seems to be the fact that there are several distinct races trying to learn to coexist to protect their borders from their myriad outside threats. And yet... I rarely see people rping about these differences. It's like everyone's already overcome them
Ah well, I say go for it!
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Knight Kat - 02-21-2015
Funny how things change. I've brought up discussions of the potential for the races and/or cities to have their own languages -twice- on the RPC in the past. I got heavy resistance each time. It was as if I was proposing something like "Eorzea is actually the Matrix". Even when I showed a screenshot of Minfillia saying that Eorzea has different "languages and creeds", I was still resisted.
This is why I never used Kiht's "traditional language" I would otherwise use for her. I did not see it worth dealing with the potential scorn. By now, it would be odd for most people who know her for her to start using any sort of language other than common Eorzean, so I'm kinda stuck in that regard.
My point is, Y'lani, go for it. Don't expect others to ICly understand your character when she speaks that language, but it sounds like you don't expect such. However, if you really want her to have a language other than common Eorzean, start having her reference and demonstrate it now. Do not be surprised if you get some resistance though.
It is really a shame the devs only give a language reference for the Seawolves and beast tribes. I really want to know what my character's name "Kiht Jakkya" means.
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Magellan - 02-21-2015
(02-21-2015, 07:32 PM)Knight Kat Wrote: Funny how things change. I've brought up discussions of the potential for the races and/or cities to have their own languages -twice- on the RPC in the past. I got heavy resistance each time. It was as if I was proposing something like "Eorzea is actually the Matrix". Even when I showed a screenshot of Minfillia saying that Eorzea has different "languages and creeds", I was still resisted.That is unfortunate to hear. It's probably because most of the cultural differences are vaguely alluded to, without being thrust to the forefront in any meaningful way. Certainly there are huge gaps in the lore and story, and what they cover, and it's up to the community to try and fill them. Visually, Eorzea comes across as a melting pot. There are people of every race in every city-state, and we get told very little about what an individual race's religion, philosophy, and life style would be like.
This is why I never used Kiht's "traditional language" I would otherwise use for her. I did not see it worth dealing with the potential scorn. By now, it would be odd for most people who know her for her to start using any sort of language other than common Eorzean, so I'm kinda stuck in that regard.
My point is, Y'lani, go for it. Don't expect others to ICly understand your character when she speaks that language, but it sounds like you don't expect such. However, if you really want her to have a language other than common Eorzean, start having her reference and demonstrate it now. Do not be surprised if you get some resistance though. Â
It is really a shame the devs only give a language reference for the Seawolves and beast tribes. I really want to know what my character's name "Kiht Jakkya" means.
But even if Eorzea truly is a melting pot, there is still plenty of room for traditionalists who adhere to the old customs. Why, even here in America we have the Amish, just as an example. Or Hasidic Jews. There would absolutely be smaller societies in Eorzea who would hold fast to, and practice the roots of their heritage. Why anyone would get blasted for this is an unfortunate byproduct of mob mentality.
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - K'nahli - 02-21-2015
It's been something I've often wondered about and while very interesting, i think I'll skip it for the sake of ease and communication. I don't want to imagine that K'nahli speaks with a particular accent and possibly struggles with Eorzean in general no more than I want her to be perfectly fluent in both languages. She spent most of her spare time training, not studying.
In a way, I do hope that I see a bit of this at some point. I'm sure I could imagine that K'nahli has some knowledge of a number of terms and phrases of her old language, at least!
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Naunet - 02-21-2015
IMO go for it. Sounds like a very plausible and interesting bit to your character's backstory. Unique dialects form all over the place, even when people are mixing, so a reclusive Seeker tribe developing their own is perfectly within reason.
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - thesunalsorises - 02-21-2015
I know that Ishgard doesn't canonically have it's own dialect or language, but realistically speaking a country that is as isolated and xenophobic as they are would have it's own dialect or even language. The isolation would prevent the influx of loanwords, and they would be resistant to the linguistic shifts that are happening elsewhere, and the linguistics shift that are happening there wouldn't spread anywhere else. So I've always headcanoned that Ishgardians still have traces of whatever the Elezen spoke when they founded the country.
Same thing applies to Duskwights, because they lived in caves while the Wildwoods lived in Gridania.
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - C'kayah Polaali - 02-22-2015
(02-21-2015, 07:32 PM)Knight Kat Wrote: It is really a shame the devs only give a language reference for the Seawolves and beast tribes. I really want to know what my character's name "Kiht Jakkya" means.
Well, clearly "Jakkya" refers to the beast tribes of the Shroud, with their peculiar half-leaping gait, assisted by their birdlike motions. "Kiht" is an onomatopoeic word to describe the sound a spear makes when it strikes the flesh of an enemy. So "Kiht Jakkya" quite literally means "Flight of the Spear".
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - DreamedReality - 02-22-2015
Zabine gets written with a french-esqe accent. As I imagine that's what the Elezen old tongue is like, giving their naming conventions.
I've also rped Jaques using french words at times. To signify the old tongue that in his tribe really only got used when training beasts or in old prayers/rituals. But he isn't fluent in it really.
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - FreelanceWizard - 02-22-2015
I've generally been of the opinion that, if a group is sufficiently reclusive, they may have their own unintelligible dialect or actual separate language from Eorzea as a whole. So, personally, I say go for it -- given your premise of an isolated tribe. It's the isolation, IMO, that makes it work, unless they were using a cryptolect (like the Dutiful Sisters are in their thieves' cant).
I think the primary opposition comes to claims that races and city-states have their own languages (such as a "miqo'te tongue" in common use, or Gridanians speaking a different language from Lominsans). This doesn't preclude linguistic variation at the fringes of city-state society, of course.
RE: Tribal Dialects and Languages, do they work? - Knight Kat - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 12:52 AM)Ckayah Polaali Wrote:(02-21-2015, 07:32 PM)Knight Kat Wrote: It is really a shame the devs only give a language reference for the Seawolves and beast tribes. I really want to know what my character's name "Kiht Jakkya" means.
Well, clearly "Jakkya" refers to the beast tribes of the Shroud, with their peculiar half-leaping gait, assisted by their birdlike motions. "Kiht" is an onomatopoeic word to describe the sound a spear makes when it strikes the flesh of an enemy. So "Kiht Jakkya" quite literally means "Flight of the Spear".
.......................I am -so- just going to go with that. No questions, it is cannon.