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IC Glamours/Illusions - Printable Version

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IC Glamours/Illusions - N'velhi Tia - 02-27-2015

So, I was searching for lore covering this but could not find much. As far as I know, Coerthan heretics and Garleans can cast glamours.

Is there actually any lore that explains who can take up this kind of.. magic? I'm not strictly talking about making clothes look like X whilst in actuality it's Y. I'm talking about those Garleans on the beach in their swimwear then WHOOP armoured ninja soldier. Talking about a certain Coerthan heretic that went from Malezen to Aevis. 

All kinds of illusionary magic, really.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - K'nahli - 02-27-2015

(02-27-2015, 09:46 PM)N Wrote: So, I was searching for lore covering this but could not find much. As far as I know, Coerthan heretics and Garleans can cast glamours.

Is there actually any lore that explains who can take up this kind of.. magic? I'm not strictly talking about making clothes look like X whilst in actuality it's Y. I'm talking about those Garleans on the beach in their swimwear then WHOOP armoured ninja soldier. Talking about a certain Coerthan heretic that went from Malezen to Aevis. 

All kinds of illusionary magic, really.

I have no information that can help so this is just my opinion really!

I make an exception for the elezen and sylphs since they have special powers, naturally, but every other example of this has been in what can be described as "fluff" quests to be honest(as far as I can remember) and honestly I prefer to imagine that such a thing isn't actually very feasible - otherwise it would pose a VERY, real threat to not just military and organisations and influential, diplomatic leaders, but to the general populace too.

So while I don't know about any lore behind it, I'm personally of the opinion that it should be highly restrictive to how, where and how long it can be used or at least come with some serious repercussions.


Having said that, I'm one of those people who believe that just because something is in the game, it doesn't make it canon.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Kellach Woods - 02-27-2015

Glamours are a hit-miss thing. Glamours in the sense of Grade X Prisms to make armor look like something it's not is a purely gameplay thing in my opinion and isn't exactly IC. At least, it would be severely limited.

However, glamours in the sense of Voidsent/Undead hiding as random ass animals and other things would be certainly plausible. It's a recurring theme in Levequests, and the military themselves seem to know exactly how to dismiss the vile glamours. I'd say it's just business as usual in Eorzea.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Unnamed Mercenary - 02-27-2015

I'm not sure if Garleans can cast glamours, but I would assume anyone magic-enabled probably could. 

I RP as Franz using a glamour to hide part of his appearance. I see them more as objects to be used. Something that needs to be reapplied, etc. ...so basically magic makeup.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - K'nahli - 02-27-2015

(02-27-2015, 10:36 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Glamours are a hit-miss thing. Glamours in the sense of Grade X Prisms to make armor look like something it's not is a purely gameplay thing in my opinion and isn't exactly IC. At least, it would be severely limited.

However, glamours in the sense of Voidsent/Undead hiding as random ass animals and other things would be certainly plausible. It's a recurring theme in Levequests, and the military themselves seem to know exactly how to dismiss the vile glamours. I'd say it's just business as usual in Eorzea.

They have a method to dispel them sure, but realistically it couldn't possibly be so easy once you consider all the possibilities. Someone could easily glamour themselves as a high-ranking officer and stab Raubahn or anyone else in the back with no trouble whatsoever. Likewise, someone could pose as a wealthy patron or a member of the syndicate and intercept due payments/shipments - to name just a couple.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - N'velhi Tia - 02-28-2015

(02-27-2015, 10:55 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I'm not sure if Garleans can cast glamours, but I would assume anyone magic-enabled probably could. 

It was an assumption I made during the level 45 ninja quest:


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And if I recall correctly the inquisitor in the Coerthan part of the Main Story Quest used an arcanist's book to activate his glamour. We know arcanists can cast myriad spells - but would it plausible for them to use some advanced formula to temporarily alter their appearance?

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Cato - 02-28-2015

I'm wary about this sort of thing since more often then not it seems to be embraced as a means of evading any real drawbacks to a character's more controversial traits. As far as I'm concerned being a Garlean is something that can bring a lot of depth to role-play but so far it seems like a lot of people simply make their character into a Garlean to gain the perk of advanced technological prowess/knowledge and then conveniently write off the downsides of being a Garlean by using fantasia or glamours to hide it.

As I've said in other threads, it's just so bizarre to me. There's so little racial lore in this game to begin with when compared to the likes of WoW and ESO so it's a real shame when what little of it exists is discarded in favour of convenient IC race changes/disguises.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Unnamed Mercenary - 02-28-2015

(02-28-2015, 07:37 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I'm wary about this sort of thing since more often then not it seems to be embraced as a means of evading any real drawbacks to a character's more controversial traits. As far as I'm concerned being a Garlean is something that can bring a lot of depth to role-play but so far it seems like a lot of people simply make their character into a Garlean to gain the perk of advanced technological prowess/knowledge and then conveniently write off the downsides of being a Garlean by using fantasia or glamours to hide it.

As I've said in other threads, it's just so bizarre to me. There's so little racial lore in this game to begin with when compared to the likes of WoW and ESO so it's a real shame when what little of it exists is discarded in favour of convenient IC race changes/disguises.

At least on the Garlean front, there are many, many different ways to "qualify" as being a Garlean. And only the racially pure-blooded ones have issues with aether manipulation and the third eye. I personally do not accept fantasia potions as something that exist within my interpretation of the lore, but I do accept glamours because while they might be able to hide something, it is still always there. 

And with the rampant amount of IC racism that is supposed to exist, I would assume most Garleans would be doing something to hide any major distinguishing features away.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Enzo - 02-28-2015

(02-28-2015, 11:35 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(02-28-2015, 07:37 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I'm wary about this sort of thing since more often then not it seems to be embraced as a means of evading any real drawbacks to a character's more controversial traits. As far as I'm concerned being a Garlean is something that can bring a lot of depth to role-play but so far it seems like a lot of people simply make their character into a Garlean to gain the perk of advanced technological prowess/knowledge and then conveniently write off the downsides of being a Garlean by using fantasia or glamours to hide it.

As I've said in other threads, it's just so bizarre to me. There's so little racial lore in this game to begin with when compared to the likes of WoW and ESO so it's a real shame when what little of it exists is discarded in favour of convenient IC race changes/disguises.

At least on the Garlean front, there are many, many different ways to "qualify" as being a Garlean. And only the racially pure-blooded ones have issues with aether manipulation and the third eye. I personally do not accept fantasia potions as something that exist within my interpretation of the lore, but I do accept glamours because while they might be able to hide something, it is still always there. 

And with the rampant amount of IC racism that is supposed to exist, I would assume most Garleans would be doing something to hide any major distinguishing features away.

Right. All you have to do is have lived in Garlemald/been born there to be a Garlean. That does not necessarily mean you have all their perks. Garlemald is a country and its people Garleans. While there is a specific race of Garleans you do not have to be that race to be good with technology. There is a lot more problems that come with Role playing a pure blooded garlean beyond what you can glamor. But Glamors ease the burden that Garleans have to bear because they are a race often absolutely hated by Eorzeans. If you were to walk around without trying to hide the fact you were a pure blood? You would be attacked, antagonized, and arrested. You simply would not be able to do ANYTHING. That is not a downside. That is you can not role play.
I personally don't use glamors often. Opting to wear a mask because I am too lazy to write facial emotions. But my character is a full blooded garlean and if he is in a situation where he can't wear a mask he has to decline or wear a glamor of his face on his mask. It looks totally normal. But if you try to flick him on the forehead or something you would be able to tell. Glamors are not fools proof. The main drawback of my character as a Garlean is the fact he has this complex over all the other races and knows nothing of their culture. He can also be needlessly harsh. It is more of a personality thing. And it is perfectly possible to remove his glamor or catch him as a garlean if someone ripped off his mask. Just most people are not so bold as to do so.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Cato - 02-28-2015

Well, I play Graeham as being half-Garlean and one of the consequences of that is that he struggles to do anything involving the manipulation of aether. I'm glad I went down that route since it's a great excuse to avoid instantaneous travel via aetheryte beyond emergencies.

As for the racism? If people find out his heritage IC then it makes for some great opportunities: some characters are fine with it, others view him with suspicion and it can lead to some delicious tension and conflict!

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Val - 02-28-2015

(02-27-2015, 10:31 PM)K Wrote: Having said that, I'm one of those people who believe that just because something is in the game, it doesn't make it canon.

This makes two of us. SE has a bad, BAD habit of trying to explain everything they do in the game with in-game lore, and it ends up broken at worst and incredibly campy at best.

I don't think there really is a lot of lore on glamour so much as they needed an excuse as to how their system would work and they weaved something together as they're known to do. I'd like to think it's little more than a bit of illusion magic, but I really don't know who would be able to cast that and where it would be learned from aside from sylphs and typical fae folk.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Sounsyy - 02-28-2015

EDITED: Incorrect text, new lore was released with Heavensward on how Ishgardians turn into dragons.


As wary as some people are of "glamours" or "glamour magick," it is 100% canon to lore on multiple fronts. I can understand reservation on something like the "Fantasia Potion" as it's a money-store bought item with no other mention elsewhere in Eorzea besides some ambiguous flavor text. Glamours, on the other hand, are everywhere in Eorzea. From Levequests to F.A.T.E.s to MSQ to Seasonal to Hildibrand. Even if glamouring isn't really your cup of tea, something that is that frequently expressed in the game cannot be cast aside as not canon because of personal preference.

We see a lot of "Glamour Magicks" used by Voidsent, particularly imps, as well as Sylphs. But we also have glamour crystals which are crafted not using magic. So a pure-blood Garlean may lean more towards the latter form of glamourification.

As for the main story quest where the inquisitor becomes a dragon... I think that is less Arcanima than it is Dragon magic. Dragons have some very impressive magicks that we can only hope to see and learn more of in Heavensward, but shape-shifting may be one of those magicks? We don't see Arcanima used for glamour anywhere else I don't think.
Blessed or magicked blood from ancient Dravanian causes Ishgardians to turn into Dravanians.

All that said, glamours appear to be sketchy at best and not very reliable for long periods of time. Also there's several ways of dispelling glamours and per most Levequests, the respective militaries recognize many of these ways to dispel glamours.
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RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Val - 02-28-2015

(02-28-2015, 12:36 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: As wary as some people are of "glamours" or "glamour magick," it is 100% canon to lore on multiple fronts. I can understand reservation on something like the "Fantasia Potion" as it's a money-store bought item with no other mention elsewhere in Eorzea besides some ambiguous flavor text. Glamours, on the other hand, are everywhere in Eorzea. From Levequests to F.A.T.E.s to MSQ to Seasonal to Hildibrand. Even if glamouring isn't really your cup of tea, something that is that frequently expressed in the game cannot be cast aside as not canon because of personal preference.

We see a lot of "Glamour Magicks" used by Voidsent, particularly imps, as well as Sylphs. But we also have glamour crystals which are crafted not using magic. So a pure-blood Garlean may lean more towards the latter form of glamourification.

As for the main story quest where the inquisitor becomes a dragon... I think that is less Arcanima than it is Dragon magic. Dragons have some very impressive magicks that we can only hope to see and learn more of in Heavensward, but shape-shifting may be one of those magicks? We don't see Arcanima used for glamour anywhere else I don't think.

All that said, glamours appear to be sketchy at best and not very reliable for long periods of time. Also there's several ways of dispelling glamours and per most Levequests, the respective militaries recognize many of these ways to dispel glamours.
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I see your point =) I think my reservations come with asking how easy it would be for your typical eorzean/adventurer to do. Most of the people/creatures you mentioned are considered MSQ characters/more powerful than your average adventurer/RP character should be.

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - K'nahli - 02-28-2015

(02-28-2015, 12:36 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: As wary as some people are of "glamours" or "glamour magick," it is 100% canon to lore on multiple fronts. I can understand reservation on something like the "Fantasia Potion" as it's a money-store bought item with no other mention elsewhere in Eorzea besides some ambiguous flavor text. Glamours, on the other hand, are everywhere in Eorzea. From Levequests to F.A.T.E.s to MSQ to Seasonal to Hildibrand. Even if glamouring isn't really your cup of tea, something that is that frequently expressed in the game cannot be cast aside as not canon because of personal preference.

We see a lot of "Glamour Magicks" used by Voidsent, particularly imps, as well as Sylphs. But we also have glamour crystals which are crafted not using magic. So a pure-blood Garlean may lean more towards the latter form of glamourification.

As for the main story quest where the inquisitor becomes a dragon... I think that is less Arcanima than it is Dragon magic. Dragons have some very impressive magicks that we can only hope to see and learn more of in Heavensward, but shape-shifting may be one of those magicks? We don't see Arcanima used for glamour anywhere else I don't think.

All that said, glamours appear to be sketchy at best and not very reliable for long periods of time. Also there's several ways of dispelling glamours and per most Levequests, the respective militaries recognize many of these ways to dispel glamours.
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Just to be clear on my point, I'm not exactly against the glamouring of one's appearance, but rather the ability for just about anyone to do it easily and efficiently. You say that there are methods of dispelling these things and that's true, but unless you're not a convincing actor and dealing with someone who knows the real person very well, then Garleans in particular could abuse this to high heaven and make a lot more progress than they do by simply dressing up and playing as regular soldiers(in which their ranks have to be actually earned too).... and even then there would always be a massive sense of mistrust among your own comrades.

Is Steve having a bad day and perhaps acting moody? Better smack him with a alchemical dispeller to make sure he's not someone pretending to be him.

^Things like that are basically where most of my reluctance comes from.



2.3-2.4(I think) MSQ Spoiler
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Also, as a side note to anyone who perhaps plays characters or knows characters who roleplay anything akin to this concept, please keep in mind that everyone thusfar has merely been sharing their personal opinions(myself included of course)!
These kinds of things can sometimes sound like the concept is being condemned in discussions like these but that is not anyone's intent I'm sure.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edit:
Val just.... basically said what I meant in two lines ;;;    *incompetent*

RE: IC Glamours/Illusions - Sounsyy - 02-28-2015

(02-28-2015, 12:48 PM)Val Wrote: I see your point =) I think my reservations come with asking how easy it would be for your typical eorzean/adventurer to do. Most of the people/creatures you mentioned are considered MSQ characters/more powerful than your average adventurer/RP character should be.

I guess that's really up to the RP character. But you're totally right in that you don't see the average Eorzean walking around in glamour or peddling glamours. They seem fairly uncommon to the general populace. So I guess having them would be dependent on if you think it makes sense for your character. If your character is a very well traveled Adventurer, or a dubious merchant in strange and little understood goods, or a Garlean trying to blend in with Eorzeans for whatever reason... I think you could make it work for the character.

My character, on the other hand, wouldn't know the first thing about glamour or even where to get her hands on them unless they were being sold in Hawker's Alley.