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Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Verranicus - 04-11-2010
None of my friends play anymore, so I was wondering if any of you were part of active linkshells that would be willing to take me in?
RP is a plus, but not required, and you'd like need to put up with me asking a ton of dumb questions since it's been ages since I last played.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Kylin - 04-11-2010
The RP scene in Vana'diel is a bit less than spectacular in that it's a dying art. Never having a RP server from the start certainly didn't help matters. There is a sticky in this section of the forums with RP linkshells in FFXI though.
Currently, there are only 2 listed, one on Siren and the other on Lakshmi. I do know that there are two more though -- one on Asura and one from Sylph simply awaiting advertisement details. Tsumi can shed more light on the currently unadvertised Asuran RP group when she gets the opportunity. Isilme knows about the Sylph one but has yet to even log in since registering, so that one may not get advertised xD.
Just keep in mind that all of these groups are pretty small these days in comparison to what FF14's RP community will be at the start.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Verranicus - 04-12-2010
I took a look at the sites for the two that were already advertised here, and the fact that they base their RP around missions and such makes me wary.
I've always found LS' using too many of the games characters and events in their own RP to be nothing but trouble. I remember back when I used to play there was an LS RPing their way through the CoP storyline and would snub anyone that tried to RP with them who didn't accept -their- canon. They then had the nerve to complain about lack of RP on the server.
It's always been my stance that while you can reference some major happenings in the game, you should do so sparingly and rely only on your own ideas for the majority of your RP, otherwise your group becomes cut off and inaccesible to everyone else. And just think about how stupid a community looks to prospective new RPers when 10 different RP LS' have 10 completely different stories wound so tightly around the ingame missions that you either a) Simply can't RP with them or b) Would need to alter your own character so drastically it wouldn't be worth it.
Just my 2 cents.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Mho - 04-13-2010
As a member of Canta Per Me, I'm... Trying not to be insulted, so I'm sorry if my post comes off as a bit defensive. In my experience, RPing missions has been a wonderful way to add interest and fun to what would otherwise be a grind, while generating an interesting storyline the entire linkshell can get in on, even if they're not directly involved in the cutscenes and BCs just from the spillover consequences of the major events taking place. When another group within the LS wants to re-RP it later, as they often do, it's a great opportunity to bring creative plotting and story writing to bear to have it all make sense again. One of the most fun long-term plot arcs I've been in was a redo of CoP and it worked great. Before a few members quit, we even had someone putting together a plot for a crossover 3rd CoP run-through with ToAU missions mixed in and a storyline that tied it all together.
Two different RPLS's are always going to have different 'canon' and if they're going to shun each other and butt heads over the differences, they certainly don't need missions as the impetus. That's not the fault of mission RP, that's the fault of short-sighted leaders who can't communicate a compromise, even if it's "Just don't talk about mission-specific events in cross-LS RPs." That's the rule Canta Per Me and Phoenix Ember stuck to and it worked fine - so well in fact that we declared each other sister LS's and had people with pearls to both who hopped back and forth to RP and hang out. We had different 'canon' but we had the maturity and decency not to make it a point of contention.
All that aside, to talk about CPM specifically for a moment and not just for the sake of example, mission RPs has never been our focus or central theme. We love doing it but we've been around and active since NA PS2 launch. MOST of our plots are 100% member-written, though often they'll implement and expand upon ideas and elements that first appeared in mission RPs and quests. Flat-out not RPing missions at all robs a RPLS of a lot of potential enrichment, to me.
Now, CPM has been the only RPLS for most of Lakshmi's history, so it's not as much of a problem for us. In a larger community, if you're going to RP missions, you of course have to be mindful to RP them not 'by the book' - You'll have to think up some way to RP them non-specifically enough that there won't be conflicts with other groups. If a RPLS wants to just avoid that mess completely by not RPing missions ever, that's certainly the easiest route. But to globally condemn mission RPing just closes doors that really don't have to be shut.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Xenedra - 04-13-2010
To sort of add to Muir's schpeel... and maybe more directly address your concern?
I've seen EXACTLY what you're talking about in RP communities before (in fact, years ago, even in CPM): RPers who've previously RP'd or are currenting RPing a mission snubbing new RPers. Having experienced this snubbing myself and as one of CPMs primary SHs, I can tell you that our shell is preeetty careful to avoid this. Frankly, at the mere mention of a new RPer we drop what we're doing (Cerb? PFFFT, RP TIME!!) and descend like seagulls on a french fry. We'd be quite happy to have you as well as help work you into the story line
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Smiling River - 04-13-2010
I don't think anyone should get offended by what Verranicus said. I don't think he is condemning all RPers who play out missions or naming names, he is just saying that it's not for him (based on previous experience).
While you guys make a convincing case for CPM, it's entirely up to him to take it or leave it. There might be a great way to RP in all kinds of ways, but once a person has a negative experience w/ a certain style, even if your LS does it better and it works, it's often hard to change their opinion.
This is after all just an opinion, not a personal attack against any individuals or a community. If this is to be a successful, open-minded coalition where people can express their opinions freely, we have to leave that at the door. (Unless someone is purposefully saying X LS is crap, etc etc.) Otherwise everyone is going to get offended by everyone else's different view on what works and what doesn't in RP, and our dialog will be reduced to generalities and PC statements that really don't mean anything.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Blade - 04-13-2010
Not trying to be defensive here, but just wanting to explain why we use this definition of canon and why our RP tends to be based around the game's canon and plotline.
I decided to make the game our GM for the most part. In other words, instead of having someone sitting back and calling the shots, let the game and it's included lore handle that. I have been in other groups in the past and managed groups in the past that allowed for lore and canon to be disregarded and the world was left completely in the hands of the RPers. Not necessarily bad, but what I found was that these particular groups I was in suffered from character power struggles... having implausible backgrounds, and everyone seemed in competition to make their character more awesome than the other, developing powers that others couldn't match... you catch my drift? As GM for that RP I had to make the calls on what was allowed to be done by our characters, which then incites anger when I side with someone but against someone else.
For this group I wanted something different. Everyone has access to the game's rules and its canon and its lore. Why not use that as the rules for the RP and let the game balance itself out? No one can complain about another character getting powers they can't, etc. There's no snubbing of another person's canon since we just use what's already in the game. A common ground as it were.
And the honest truth is that this has worked out well for most of our group. But I'd be lying if I said that it worked out for all, and we've had some people where our group hasn't worked out for them.
I'll be the first to say that one of the drawbacks of this strategy is that it removes some possibilities to really get some unique ideas going simply because you have to work within the game's storyline and guidelines. But I also think it presents a creative challenge to make a neat character that has to fit into the world. In fact, I think characters end up being *more* interesting and more believable working under these restrictions, as opposed to writing whatever you want and not having to worry about whether or not it works.
But our style is not for everyone, and I don't think we're better than other groups or anything. It's our style and our preference and other people have their own. But our group is certainly not "nothing but trouble."
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Verranicus - 04-13-2010
There's a huge difference between making your character fit the setting and established lore of the game (which is a good thing and I 100% expect of any serious RPer) and using actual in-game missions and quests to RP around. In my experience it's always been best to keep a fair amount of distance between roleplay events and ongoing story events in the game itself. Reference stuff in passing, mention people or places off hand but always avoid putting yourself in the place of a "main character".
"We just defeated the Shadow Lord! We're heroes!" If you walk around town claiming you just did in the big baddie or just saved Eorzea from certain doom at the hands of whatever villain we're up against, what happens when someone from another group happening to be running the same sort of gimmick wants to RP with you guys? It becomes awkward and convoluted.
The best way to avoid stuff like that is to make your own stories from scratch. A seasoned roleplayer should never have trouble taking what he sees around him and turning it into an engaging plot without having to rely so heavily on the game script that it becomes the focal point.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Blade - 04-13-2010
Well, part of my point of view is that its damn fun and more interesting for our characters to be the 'main' characters. There aren't any other active RP shells on Siren either as far as I know so running into another group hasn't been an issue, but if there were another group to start up, I'm sure the leaders would just discuss it and create a compromise. People can do that, you know. It's not like our characters parade through town and point out to everyone "oh btw we beat the shadow lord."
I'm not attacking your preferred method of RP and I'd prefer you show me the same sort of respect. You talk of 'seasoned RPers' like we would struggle to come up with our own storyline, when the reality is that all the people in our RP love the storyline that is already there, however, the meaning of the storyline is lost and butchered when you are forced to blitz through cutscenes and whatnot. So we decided "Hey, lets go back through it all, slowly, using the storyline as a guide, and see how it goes?" Besides, our storyline is by far and mostly about the character interactions. Progressing through the story and saving the world just helps the group bond.
Obviously you prefer something different. But we aren't using the story as a crutch like you seem to be arguing, this is what we have chosen to work around.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Kylin - 04-13-2010
Silly RPers chasing tails again
First and foremost, we need to realize that FFXI's RP community is vastly different than what it once was and I think the tiny handful of remaining shells can agree on that. Aside from being significantly smaller, the remaining shells have mostly settled into a strong core group of friends most likely. That means they're not necessarily used to getting new members and are primarily focused on keeping their core members interested in stuff. Keeping them interested probably means getting OOC stuff done (missions, gear, etc).
From what I understand, the above shells don't revolve their entire RP around the game missions but rather do the missions moreso on the side. They simply RP while doing so is all.
Second, much like FFXIV's RP community will vary in style from group to group, FFXI is no different. What's good for one group may not be good for another. Different RPers have different needs and like to express themselves in different ways.
Those things being said, I do personally agree with Verranicus to an extent. I don't condemn using the game missions in RP. It's just not my individual style to do so. The one exception to this was when Crystalline had a CoP static and a group of us (Kes and Tyriont included) Rped through those. We did however keep the content of those missions strictly between ourselves and never really spoke about any of it in public to the other members who weren't in the static.
Another thing about the game missions is that you can use them in other ways. I did this a lot with some of my RP events. For example, let's look at mission 5-1 (lich fight). Instead of fighting the lich that was guarding a seal to the Shadowlord's imprisonment, we used the fight for something completely different. One of my villainous characters, a scientist named Ramsus Mortavo, ended up eventually getting cornered by some of the linkshell's good guys. They chased him through Fei'Yin and to the burning circle basically (he was a level 1 mule of mine and I literally got him to the burning circle on foot >.>). After some IC dialouge that led to various revelations, Mortavo downed a vial of a potion that turned him into a skeleton. Then we entered the 5-1 fight, IC'ly fighting Mortavo and not the actual storyline's creature. I did similar things with mission 2-3 and several bcnms. Thus, the game's storyline can be used as a tool and still stick with canon if used correctly.
Ultimately, it's up to one's individual style and preferences though. Ironically enough, the whole mission/rp mixing issue will actually be a formal discussion and eventually end up in our etiquette section.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Aveline - 04-13-2010
Personally I like a balance to these sorts of things, and for TALE I hope we keep a balance between personal storyline and in-game plotline.
In linkshells that almost completely ignored missions/game storyline, it seemed people went out of their way to out-do each other with increasingly wild plotlines and stories. But on the other hand, I can see how someone new to the game or further behind on storylines would feel put out from joining a group that was roleplaying specific missions. Then again, if a group was RPing along a linear story path, why would they be recruiting in the first place?
To use XI as an example, it always seemed to work out best if people referred sort of indirectly to the missions within the LS chat, unless a large group of members were all running them at the same time. For instance, if we had new players that were just getting to the Shadowlord fight, those of us that had done it a dozen times over wouldn't refer to it necessarily as the Shadowlord, we'd simply say in the linkshell that we were going to help ______ fight off increasing evil in the north. This runs well within the game, as there is ALWAYS evil in the north, and it allows the person running that mission for the first time as well as those that are doing it for the 20th time, to roleplay it in character.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Verranicus - 04-13-2010
Castiel's got it right, and I think what you did with the 5-1 fight is great. I totally understand how the above LS' usage of the missions for their RP is cool now that RP is essentially limited to one or two groups per server, but when we go to XIV the situation would simply be too chaotic for everyone to maintain their own "canon" in regards to the game plot.
EDIT: And in regards to people coming up with crazier and crazier stories of their own when not relying on the established game canon, the best thing to do if they take it "too far" is just talk to them. I know when I was newer to RP I was always trying to be the darkest guy out there, and over the years I realized how much that puts a lot of people off and mellowed out.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Blade - 04-13-2010
Quote:But on the other hand, I can see how someone new to the game or further behind on storylines would feel put out from joining a group that was roleplaying specific missions. Then again, if a group was RPing along a linear story path, why would they be recruiting in the first place?
Yeah, this is probably the biggest problem we run into, we end up having to do a lot of OOC catch up with some people in order to get them all caught up to speed. Or they just participate in the social RPs that we have, since we have strictly social RPs and mission RPs as separate sessions but all part of the same group.
But as trying as it can be sometimes to get someone caught up with missions, one of the best things about this group is how hard we work together and how excited we are for new people. Whenever I tell them "We got a new one coming in" everyone wants to know the job, the race, the background, they start trying to figure out how they are going to jive with them in character... that's probably the best part of the group I think. And we work a lot with people, I don't just say "We're on this mission, fit in somehow" lol. We work out a lot of kinks... because its hard to join up with an established group already, whether or not they are doing missions.
Forgive my rambling lol. I'm actually watching the dialogue pass through the LS chat (we're doing social RP now, although right now I'm just watching), between one member who has been with us a long time, one who joined half way through, and one who joined rather recently, and it just amazes me sometimes the kinds of things that they are able to turn out and the character interactions we get.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Verranicus - 04-13-2010
It's cool that it works for you, but that style of RP just sort of screams exclusive to me, and if anything with this new game coming out we should do everything we can to maintain an open and easily accessible RP community to all of the people who are newer to it.
It's small cliques of people doing their own little RP's away from everyone else that kill off the sense of community.
Re: Thinking of dipping back into FFXI until XIV.. - Blade - 04-13-2010
Well anyone who has been interested in our RP has actually been able to get involved in our group, so exclusivity hasn't been an issue with us. Maybe you've just run into some bad groups, I don't know. We've even had lots of freelance RPers jump in here and there and it's gone fine, so I think it works from a community perspective.
Anyways that's all I'm going to say in this topic. You seem pretty closed to the idea that something like this could work and be enjoyable and support community, and I'm not going to get into a mud-slinging fight over it.