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Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Zyrusticae - 06-22-2015
Hey, someone had to start one! Use this thread to discuss the new jobs and any changes to the currently-existing ones (there are some real game-changers in there).
So I haven't touched DRK or AST yet, but word on the grapevine is that DRK is a touch on the weaker/more finicky side and there's some grumblings about the fact that AST is definitively weaker than either SCH or WHM in either stance (but I've been told it largely compensates for it with insane utility).
And then there's MCH.
Now it's your turn. What have you found out about the new stuff since you started playing Heavensward?
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Meena - 06-22-2015
I have only leveled Scholar and summoner thus far but I must say...
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Cailean Lockwood - 06-22-2015
I'm trying the Dark Knight, but I have never really been tanking before, always been DPS, but I have fallen in love with the DRK.
Luckily there are some awesome guides and tips already, like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3am9dn/the_state_of_dark_knights_the_unreliable_tank/
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Caspar - 06-22-2015
I enjoy the new utility I've gotten out of the Monk skills so far. The way I saw it, Monk needed very little changed as a class, but that will probably fade once I get to 60. At the moment, at 56, I find that the Form Change is useful mostly for dungeon runs and boss fights where you chase the enemy around, and not much else, but as a tool it has a lot of mechanics-dependent usefulness and may be invaluable depending on the raid content coming out. Elixer Wave is really straightforward and has a silly CD, good AoE tool on top of being off cooldown. Now if I can just fit this kamehameha into my crossbar...
The one I just don't get is Meditation->The Forbidden Chakra. This tool is an odd one as it requires me to spend gcds channeling up to five stacks of Meditation. Once there I can unleash a ridiculous Power Geyser punch on the enemy for huge potency, but the problem is as I said; it costs a lot of gcd. How I'm supposed to work this into my form rotations is quite an interesting challenge. At the moment, I see it as a tool you really only use when the boss fight has lots of downtime and you're not hitting anything. Then hopefully the attack's big potency will make up somewhat for lost dps..
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Jana - 06-22-2015
(06-22-2015, 03:52 AM)Caspar Wrote: At the moment, I see it as a tool you really only use when the boss fight has lots of downtime and you're not hitting anything.
That's about it, really. The new MNK moves were made with the complaint of "I drop GLIII and become useless in boss fights with mechanics" in mind.
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - McBeefâ„¢ - 06-22-2015
The new Paladin stuff is very interesting, and how useful it is depends on the mechanics of the next set of content.
Schiltrom (however it is spelled) is amazing, and I think really puts PLDs as the unassailable Lords of Main Tanking. A 100% block every 30 seconds is a huge deal, especially as it can be layered on top of normal cooldowns. Essentially a PLD can now take 25% off every high damage physical attack, which frees up their other cooldowns. The Mana regen is just a plus.
Shield block gives extra threat now. Not a huge deal, but a welcome one. I'd have preferred for Shield block to be less potency (say 100 or 150) but be off the global cooldown. The new Paladin options make it not worth using though, as it is neither the best option for damage or for threat.
Goring Blade and Royal Authority both combine to push PLD dps through the roof. It also gives them yet another leg up on warrior, as they can be used in any stance. Because of them though, the new shield block stuff is useless, as there is no reason to use shield swipe.
ex: 1x Shield swipe - 210 potency
3x swipe - 630
1x Fast Blade - 150
1x Savage Blade - 200
1x Royal Authority - 340
Combined - 690
The combo with Goring Blade does even more.
The new heals and barriers are very cool, but again, they depend on the new fights. I'm not convinced they'll be needed, but they do open up a lot of options.
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Aaron - 06-22-2015
See i as how I was a tank before 2.4 where I switched to dps, Â I gotta say DRK is what I needed to tank again.Â
I should have went WAR when I first started the game but I was never too fond of axes personally. DRK was the WAR with a sword instead of a axe, so of course I got it lol.
Needless to say performance wise DRK seems in the middle, Â this is of course a opinion.Â
Enmity wise (WAR was expected to be strongest, obviously)
WAR > DRK > PLD
Mitigation wise (PLD is REALLY the God of this now)
PLD > WAR > DRK
Debuffing wise (skills) (DRK has a bunch of em, I especially like the Delirium animation)
DRK > WAR > PLD
Buff Wise (Attack, not mitigation)
WAR > or = DRK -> ??? PLD?
DPS wise
WAR > DRK =/> PLD due to the latter's new dps stance.
Though honestly imo from tanking 2.0 instances with a second DRK (50% of them were new to tanking) I honestly don't think DRK should be anyone's starter tank. MP & TP management throws a lot of people off (from my exp of course, Â not a fact)
Other than that rp wise? I play it for the greatsword, im already a little repulsed by all the edge rp I've seen suddenly spike just because people play a class with "dark" in the name.
Anyway rant and praise over on DRK.
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - mongi291 - 06-22-2015
DRK really needs a few more buffs.
1) Allow us to use Blood Weapon in Grit.
2) Buff Dark Dance to increase parry rate to 30/40% > 60% (making it more of a parallel to Bulwark).
3) Put Reprisal on GCD (allowing a DRK MT to keep the damage debuff 100% of the time in an ideal scenario)
4) Buff Shadow Wall to 40%, either by default or with a trait.
5) Remove Hasty Reprisal (useless if Reprisal is on GCD) and Enhanced Unmend (completely useless), and replace them with new traits, maybe a buff for Shadow Wall and, I dunno, something else.
6) Shorten Living Dead cooldown. I get it, you can get 20 seconds invincibility with it, but it requires you and your healer(s) to be in perfect syncrony.
7) Buff Sole Survivor to something like 50% HP and MP recovered. 20% seems hardly worth it.
EDIT: Also, replace Delirium's debuff with something else. No real reason to use it if you have a MNK with you.
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Aaron - 06-22-2015
Yeah DRK sure needs some buffs, most of its stuff is under 15 seconds in length.
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Caspar - 06-22-2015
I've heard paladin and war went beastmode after the new abilities and buffs, while Drk is maybe comparable or worse than the previous two tanks in 2.0. In particularly the lack of synergy with the party and weirdness of blood weapon I've heard cited as problems.
Of the three classes, Astro from what I've heard from others in my raiding ls is the most competitive with others in its class, somewhat comparable to the other two healing classes and still bringing something unique to the plate in its utility.
Machinist definitely needs buffs, Dark Knight maybe a small amount. Not sure how severe it is, but I figure they want to avoid the problems with Bard this time around, and I'm glad because that was insufferable and I still kind of have a grudge against Bards for it, back in 2.0. Woe to those who picked up the class because it was the path of least resistance, and not because they legitimately enjoyed it...
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Spethah - 06-22-2015
52 AST and I have to say that it's been a funky ride. The mechanics are dead simple, they really imply you do not have to rush the card system at all during fights. Any qualms? Solo dps sucks balls, it's taking forever to kill anything with a dps chocobo which does make sense because it's not a dps class buuut at the same time it's kinda annoying to make people wait 3-4 minutes while you kill 3 mobs that took them less than a minute to kill.Â
Definitely going to be my main.
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Meena - 06-22-2015
(06-22-2015, 07:11 AM)mongi291 Wrote: DRK really needs a few more buffs.
1) Allow us to use Blood Weapon in Grit.
2) Buff Dark Dance to increase parry rate to 30/40% > 60% (making it more of a parallel to Bulwark).
3) Put Reprisal on GCD (allowing a DRK MT to keep the damage debuff 100% of the time in an ideal scenario)
4) Buff Shadow Wall to 40%, either by default or with a trait.
5) Remove Hasty Reprisal (useless if Reprisal is on GCD) and Enhanced Unmend (completely useless), and replace them with new traits, maybe a buff for Shadow Wall and, I dunno, something else.
6) Shorten Living Dead cooldown. I get it, you can get 20 seconds invincibility with it, but it requires you and your healer(s) to be in perfect syncrony.
7) Buff Sole Survivor to something like 50% HP and MP recovered. 20% seems hardly worth it.
EDIT: Also, replace Delirium's debuff with something else. No real reason to use it if you have a MNK with you.
However, DRK has the benefit of being able to tank and pull 600+ dps.
I don't.. I mean, its an amazing class. people jus havent figured out all the kinks to it.
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Zyrusticae - 06-22-2015
So Gauss Barrel/Wanderer's Minuet (including both here because their mechanics are identical).
I don't like them.
First of all, the stances alone are a sidegrade at best, a downgrade in actuality. Auto attacks constitute a significant proportion of our DPS, so taking that out makes the 20% damage buff only kind of make up for that loss. As such, they are only useful when using the stance-specific skills, and even then the inability to move while attacking can make it so that you don't actually gain any damage overall because you have to move and interrupt your own attacks doing so (though I understand that BRD's WM abilities are better than MCH's GB abilities, so maybe it's more worthwhile for them). Also, it's IMPOSSIBLE to weave off-GCD abilities in this stance. Maybe not so much of a problem for BLMs who are designed with fewer buffs as a result, but absolutely terrible for BRD and MCH who have LOADS of buffs they need to weave in.
And why, exactly, do these stances have a 3-second cast time? Because it only makes it that much harder for me to justify using these stances in actual combat.
The most glaring thing, however, is not any numerical issue, but simply the fact that using it isn't fun. If I wanted to play a BLM I'd play a bloody BLM. Forcing the playstyle onto classes that really have no business playing like a caster just makes me (and many others) quite bitter and irritated that the mobile-ranged-DPS style is apparently being phased out in favor of this stand-still-and-shoot gameplay. The worst part is that the new skills being gated behind the stance means you don't really have a choice in the matter - if you want to play optimally you're going to have to deal with it (as I fully expect either the stances themselves or their skills will receive buffs down the line), and that effectively means the death of the mobile ranged DPS play style as there is no longer any class that specializes in it.
That all being said, I'll deal with it just because I like MCH so very much thematically (that pew-pew and clickity-clack is all I need to get me going). But, gods, I hope they backpedal on this. I know what they were going for but it just makes me really uneasy for the future of both of these classes. Don't fix what ain't broken, yo!
(06-22-2015, 10:49 AM)Meena Wrote: However, DRK has the benefit of being able to tank and pull 600+ dps.But then again, WAR is now capable of out-DPSing other DPS classes with their new stance, and the new PLD skills put PLD's DPS through the roof.
I don't.. I mean, its an amazing class. people jus havent figured out all the kinks to it.
Seems like this is their answer to the tank shortage. Make the tank classes play like tanks that also deal damage, and maybe more people will play them?
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Aaron - 06-22-2015
(06-22-2015, 10:49 AM)Meena Wrote:DRK is meant to be a tank though. Dps shouldn't really be its saving grace.(06-22-2015, 07:11 AM)mongi291 Wrote: DRK really needs a few more buffs.
1) Allow us to use Blood Weapon in Grit.
2) Buff Dark Dance to increase parry rate to 30/40% > 60% (making it more of a parallel to Bulwark).
3) Put Reprisal on GCD (allowing a DRK MT to keep the damage debuff 100% of the time in an ideal scenario)
4) Buff Shadow Wall to 40%, either by default or with a trait.
5) Remove Hasty Reprisal (useless if Reprisal is on GCD) and Enhanced Unmend (completely useless), and replace them with new traits, maybe a buff for Shadow Wall and, I dunno, something else.
6) Shorten Living Dead cooldown. I get it, you can get 20 seconds invincibility with it, but it requires you and your healer(s) to be in perfect syncrony.
7) Buff Sole Survivor to something like 50% HP and MP recovered. 20% seems hardly worth it.
EDIT: Also, replace Delirium's debuff with something else. No real reason to use it if you have a MNK with you.
However, DRK has the benefit of being able to tank and pull 600+ dps.
I don't.. I mean, its an amazing class. people jus havent figured out all the kinks to it.
RE: Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs - Yangh - 06-22-2015
Been having fun with AST.
As a healer it holds its own completely fine in any stance. Its not as powerful as WHM or SCH in raw healing but it does more than enough to suffice.
The stances are very simple, they literally change two of your skills (Both of the Aspected spells) and provide little buffs (Diurnal grants Regen on aspected spells and 5% spell speed, Nocturnal grants 5% magic potency and barriers).
The real power of this class is the cards. Royal Road grants you an augment to the next card draw depending on which card you previously drew, then Royal Roaded. The augments are AoE with half potency, 50% extended duration and 150% potency.
This is good in itself but it gets even better with the skills that increase the duration of beneficial buffs from cards only. Time Dilation alone will increase all beneficial buffs by 15 seconds. You then get ANOTHER skill called Celestial Opposition which will add 5secs on top of that when used.
By the time your done using these skills you can have another card up and go nuts with it.
Speaking of cards. There are some very interesting effects. Such as reducing ability cool downs. These are the skills that are off of GCD and its INCREDIBLY good. With an augment such as 150% potency, a 30 sec cool down ability then becomes a 21 sec cool down.
There's haste, there's defense, damage, TP and MP usage reduction.
This class has a wealth of potential and I for one will be maining the crap out of it.
[EDIT] - Damage wise, AST struggles until it gets Malefic II. Its smooth sailing from there on out.
[EDIT 2] - Some info was wrong. Is now fixed.