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+--- Thread: Creating a Dragoon... (/showthread.php?tid=13219)
Creating a Dragoon... - Riven - 08-31-2015
Need a bit of a Cliffs' Notes version of the Ishgardian Houses, any rivalries, and on Dragoons in general if possible? You all were really helpful when I put together my little summoner. ^_^
Also-I've noticed there are Hyur in Ishgard. Any idea where they came from or do they live in surrounding areas?
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Sylastair - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 09:29 AM)Riven Wrote: Need a bit of a Cliffs' Notes version of the Ishgardian Houses, any rivalries, and on Dragoons in general if possible? You all were really helpful when I put together my little summoner. ^_^
Also-I've noticed there are Hyur in Ishgard. Any idea where they came from or do they live in surrounding areas?
Well, if you haven't checked this out I highly recommend giving it a gloss over, since the wiki has a lot of info (cliff notes style XD) on the houses, history and etc. (CAREFUL! There are spoilers on said page). As for Hyur in Ishgard, the city was founded by Elezen but I do not have the time at which more Hyur began to make there way there. Culturally I think it is agreed upon that Hyur are accepted, though still looked down on socially/politically. There is a bit of rivalry between the Houses, from pieces I've seen in the MSQ and a few of the crafting/gathering classes, but I don't have a lot on me at the moment to provide proof/snippets.
As for Dragoons, well, here is where it gets tricky. As many here will tell you and you can see in game, Dragoon is an honorific title for anyone who kills a 'true' dragon (so the little fliers don't count
). So, a character can be a Knight of Ishgard then kill a dragon and be given the title Dragoon. Where the issue really comes in is the use of their "jumps" since a lot of the how it is done or lore behind it is unknown, and the training of 'Dragoons' to fight using such a style is shrouded in secrecy. I personally have been trying to put together a working 'what we know and what makes sense' for Dragoon related combat and abilities, along with a realistic training pipeline length and left/right limits to the strains involved and so on (this is by no means the DEFINITIVE answer btw, just my thoughts and attempts to codify what I can so take it with a grain of salt 
). If you have questions or anything feel free to hit me up and I can help where I can. I'd also advise checking out the Ishgard LS since you have a lot of smart lore minds in there to lend a hand!
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Oli! - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 09:50 AM)Flynt Knoltros Wrote:(08-31-2015, 09:29 AM)Riven Wrote: Need a bit of a Cliffs' Notes version of the Ishgardian Houses, any rivalries, and on Dragoons in general if possible? You all were really helpful when I put together my little summoner. ^_^
Also-I've noticed there are Hyur in Ishgard. Any idea where they came from or do they live in surrounding areas?
As for Hyur in Ishgard, the city was founded by Elezen but I do not have the time at which more Hyur began to make there way there. Culturally I think it is agreed upon that Hyur are accepted, though still looked down on socially/politically.
I don't know if they're particularly looked down upon, but they don't have that much political power. There are a lot of humans in the city, however, and based on their various locations throughout both Foundation and the Pillars, as well as their varying styles of dress, they definitely occupy positions going from the poor, to the wealthy merchant-class.
They are second-citizens in the sense that they aren't allowed to have any political power (all positions of great political importance are held firmly by Elezen), but I don't think we have any examples of them experiencing any great amount of discrimination, at least not from what I've seen.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - V'aleera - 08-31-2015
Most signs point to Ishgard being more so xenophobic and classist than racist. A Garlean immigrant is one step below the highest military office after all.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Sylastair - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 11:30 AM)V Wrote: Most signs point to Ishgard being more so xenophobic and classist than racist. A Garlean immigrant is one step below the highest military office after all.This. I guess "looked down on" holds certain implications. Regardless, I would agree that this is a very apt way of looking at race as it relates to Ishgard. /twocents+highfive
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Sounsyy - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 09:29 AM)Riven Wrote: Need a bit of a Cliffs' Notes version of the Ishgardian Houses, any rivalries, and on Dragoons in general if possible? You all were really helpful when I put together my little summoner. ^_^
Also-I've noticed there are Hyur in Ishgard. Any idea where they came from or do they live in surrounding areas?
You might find this thread on Ishgardian Social Structure very helpful! It covers the High Houses and Lesser Nobility and where Hyur and Dragoons fit into that hierarchy.
As for Dragoons themselves, they are very simply knights and nobles who have slain at least one true dragon and shown proof of the deed. Slaying a dragon awards a significant amount of prestige and oftentimes is used to propel lowborns into positions of Lesser Nobility.
Hope this helps! ^^
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Riven - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 12:14 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:(08-31-2015, 09:29 AM)Riven Wrote: Need a bit of a Cliffs' Notes version of the Ishgardian Houses, any rivalries, and on Dragoons in general if possible? You all were really helpful when I put together my little summoner. ^_^
Also-I've noticed there are Hyur in Ishgard. Any idea where they came from or do they live in surrounding areas?
You might find this thread on Ishgardian Social Structure very helpful! It covers the High Houses and Lesser Nobility and where Hyur and Dragoons fit into that hierarchy.
As for Dragoons themselves, they are very simply knights and nobles who have slain at least one true dragon and shown proof of the deed. Slaying a dragon awards a significant amount of prestige and oftentimes is used to propel lowborns into positions of Lesser Nobility.
Hope this helps! ^^
It actually does, ha ha! So far what I've got for my character seems to be pretty on par with what's possible in the lore, yay.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Ashe - 08-31-2015
Also....non-Elezen Dragoons are rare. Hyurs are possible. But don't go making any Au Ra Dragoons or Miqo'te Dragoons without a bit of backlash. You also have to be trained by a regular dragoon and you have to be recognized by the Holy See and for a city known for just straight up killing Au Ra on sight in the past, you won't be met with open arms as one now still probably...
Also, there is only one Azure Dragoon. So don't be that haha.Â
Everyone else has got it down.
....
You CAN be a non-Elezen/Hyur Non-Ishgardian Dragoon I GUESS.......but like....Don't do it if you're not willing to be questioned about it ICly and OOCly >>
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Oli! - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 02:03 PM)Ashe Wrote: Also....non-Elezen Dragoons are rare. Hyurs are possible. But don't go making any Au Ra Dragoons or Miqo'te Dragoons without a bit of backlash. You also have to be trained by a regular dragoon and you have to be recognized by the Holy See and for a city known for just straight up killing Au Ra on sight in the past, you won't be met with open arms as one now still probably...
Also, there is only one Azure Dragoon. So don't be that haha.Â
Everyone else has got it down.
....
You CAN be a non-Elezen/Hyur Non-Ishgardian Dragoon I GUESS.......but like....Don't do it if you're not willing to be questioned about it ICly and OOCly >>
Have a Good Excuse is the game here.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, especially since:
but it's entirely possible to just be a Lancer, or maybe pay someone from Ishgard for training in everything except what's in the spoiler box. The game then becomes "why would they train YOU," however, so it's still risky business.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Warren Castille - 08-31-2015
People give non-elezen/hyur dragoons too much flak, given what we know about the title "dragoon." There's the Capital D Dragon Soul version and there's the rank/title given to anyone regarded as having slain a dragon, as Sounsyy mentioned.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Oli! - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 02:10 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: People give non-elezen/hyur dragoons too much flak, given what we know about the title "dragoon." There's the Capital D Dragon Soul version and there's the rank/title given to anyone regarded as having slain a dragon, as Sounsyy mentioned.
Those are fine.
But I think usually when people talk about non-Elezen / Hyur dragoons, they're talking about "I jump around and have a lance and the spiky armor and Dragon Magic" sort of Dragoon. Which is riskier.
Technically anyone can be a "Dragoon" title-wise if they bring proof that they killed a dragon to officials in Ishgard.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Verad - 08-31-2015
What's going to happen is that the only people to question them will be OOC pedants. All somebody making a non-standard Dragoon will have to deal with are "helpful" tells.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Warren Castille - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 02:19 PM)Verad Wrote: What's going to happen is that the only people to question them will be OOC pedants. All somebody making a non-standard Dragoon will have to deal with are "helpful" tells.
100% correct. Most of the time the people telling others what they can or can't do have plenty of questionable content in their own stories. As always with fiction, if it's written well people won't care about bending.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Ashe - 08-31-2015
I said it's possible. But unlikely and a lot of people do it and wonder why characters interact with them and they are ICly questioned, etc.
......Anyone in the Ishgard RP LS who was on that one time will know the conversation I'm referring to but it really isn't a "follow your dreams and they will come true" thing....
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Oli! - 08-31-2015
Personally I think it's okay to question whatever you want. I don't think questioning something makes you a horrible person, or otherwise awful. It's entirely possible that they're questioning for the sake of good intentions. If someone shuts you out of their life for the sake of a question, then maybe they're not the best, but when handled alright, I think it's fine.
Personally, I'd question it if I were asked about it, but I wouldn't shut anyone out over it. I feel like we might be jumping on the "all questions are bad" train a little too quickly.