+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Off-Topic (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=42)
+--- Forum: Off-Topic Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Thread: The Psychology of the Tanks (/showthread.php?tid=13609)
The Psychology of the Tanks - Erik Mynhier - 09-27-2015
So let me start by saying I am by no means an expert in Psychology. I am college educated and can grasp basic psychological concepts but am not an expert by any sense of the word....
Ok with the disclaimer out of the way, I noticed something about the tanks as I finished 2 of their quests and am working down the third. I noticed that the driving principles of each seems at least to me to correspond to one of Sigmund Freud's three parts of the human psyche, the Id, Ego, and Super-Ego.
The primal Id fits a bit to the Warrior, letting your "Inner Beast" run free. The Ego is the Dark Knight, acting as a go between between the Id and reality, raging but for the right reasons or the reasons that best fit. And finally the Super-Ego and the Paladin, focusing on Willpower and a very high unrealistic code of ethics and actions.
As I said I'm no expert and may have this all wrong. I was hopeful to get some Psych students to either point out how I'm wrong or if I am on to something sort of flush it out and explain it to me.
RE: The Psychology of the Tanks - Verad - 09-27-2015
Step one is that Freud is outdated in the field of psychology. That said, his theories are still used for examining literary concepts, though even those have fallen out of favor in academic circlesÂ
That said, the pattern recognition works, but it's a pattern with a limited connection to any sort of truth
RE: The Psychology of the Tanks - Teadrinker - 09-27-2015
(09-27-2015, 02:36 PM)Verad Wrote: Step one is that Freud is outdated in the field of psychology. That said, his theories are still used for examining literary concepts, though even those have fallen out of favor in academic circlesÂ
That said, the pattern recognition works, but it's a pattern with a limited connection to any sort of truth
I love your posts.
Also yes, outdated is a nice way of putting it. Google penis envy. No really, do it.
RE: The Psychology of the Tanks - Erik Mynhier - 09-27-2015
I am aware he is outdated, but also that such a fact would not stop a game company from using the theory as a theme of sorts. But also I see where you say pattern and you are right if I get your meaning, humans love to see patterns.
RE: The Psychology of the Tanks - Verad - 09-27-2015
(09-27-2015, 02:42 PM)Erik Mynhier Wrote: I am aware he is outdated, but also that such a fact would not stop a game company from using the theory as a theme of sorts. But also I see where you say pattern and you are right if I get your meaning, humans love to see patterns.
Yes but in order to demonstrate that you'd need some contextual evidence that the devs had this theory in mind when designing the classes. The pattern doesn't provide evidence of intentionality. It's equally likely they were just trying to include classic Final Fantasy classes and the ones they chose happened to fit this particular pattern, which might not exist of they had chosen different classes, or if they add more tank classes that fall outside of it.
It's not a fixed pattern, either, because even presuming it to be intentional, I would disagree that the DRK represents Ego. Rather, it feels more like the Jungian Shadow, which throws the model out of whack.
RE: The Psychology of the Tanks - Erik Mynhier - 09-27-2015
(09-27-2015, 02:48 PM)Verad Wrote:(09-27-2015, 02:42 PM)Erik Mynhier Wrote: I am aware he is outdated, but also that such a fact would not stop a game company from using the theory as a theme of sorts. But also I see where you say pattern and you are right if I get your meaning, humans love to see patterns.
Yes but in order to demonstrate that you'd need some contextual evidence that the devs had this theory in mind when designing the classes. The pattern doesn't provide evidence of intentionality. It's equally likely they were just trying to include classic Final Fantasy classes and the ones they chose happened to fit this particular pattern, which might not exist of they had chosen different classes, or if they add more tank classes that fall outside of it.
It's not a fixed pattern, either, because even presuming it to be intentional, I would disagree that the DRK represents Ego. Rather, it feels more like the Jungian Shadow, which throws the model out of whack.
I see. like I said just something I noticed, not trying to prove the devs did it or not. Anyway would you mind flushing out what the Id, ego, and super-ego are in laymen's terms? Its been a while since Introduction to Psychology.
RE: The Psychology of the Tanks - Telluride - 09-27-2015
I'm not certain that the Freudian ideas are at play with the Tanks as much as good old fashioned fictional archetypes which, as has been suggested, ring closer to Jung than Freud.
PLD is pretty much yoinked from D&D, which in turn took old historical archetypes and tried to fit them into a setting in which faith has frequent and incredibly obvious effects in the observable world. We can say that SE took ideas from WoW, but I am not in the business of giving credit to WoW for stuff they also yoinked.
WAR also has roots in the D&D Barbarian, which in term draws a good deal from the Conan mythos. Its physical appearance/armor in FFXIV draws also from a smattering of different warrior cultures. The "rage-fueled warrior" concept is likewise prevalent in many other fantasy settings and sources, as well as what I might call "popular history."
DRK could be said to draw from a number of sources. The Elric novels come to mind, and perhaps it isn't a coincidence that so many people see DRK as fantasy Batman. The class also is directly analogous to the similar class in WoW, the Reaver class in Rift, and the Dark Templar in Age of Conan.
To address the Freud question very simply, from one layman to another, the Id would be comparable to "animal instinct", those drives which are directly related to survival, hunger, reproduction, and fulfilling a person's desires, no matter what other cost. The Superego is analogous to conscience, and would be composed or the moral absolutes and social behaviors which one's society deems as "good" or "virtuous", and it exists as a counterpoint to the Id. The Ego is the go-between, which filters the demands of Id and Superego and decides which of them to act upon in any given situation; it is, in essence, the "mind" as we would most think of it, which seeks to promote the social and physical health and desires of the whole person in balance.
So, while the scientific aspects of Freud are considered outdated, they do tie heavily into a lot of philosophy, fiction and western archetypes, as others above have said. In simplest terms, think to the angel and devil on one's shoulder in TV commercials and a lot of simple stories, and you have the most basic legacy of the ideas discussed here.
As for literary theories.... speaking as someone who navigated several courses of the stuff, and the level of posturing that exists among so many of these theories, I'd say that you really don't wanna know unless you're the type that, like me, can't resist taking stories apart to see how and why they work or don't