(10-31-2015, 01:30 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: I'm at work, so can't write super detailed response. But I think the fallacy of your comparison is the assumption that Nidhogg and Midgardsormr actually died. They didn't. Thordan's knights even admit that they merely drove off Nidhogg after prizing both his eyes. They knew without them he was powerless and would die of his wounds. Midgardsormr exploded but his eyes remained and his broken body went into slumber to recover.

We know of two of the Seven Celestial Wyrms who actually died. Ratatoskr and Bahamut. Ratatoskr's body was ripped asunder and her eyes devoured. You can find the remains of her lifeblood at Tharl Oom Kesh. We don't know how Bahamut was slain by the Allagans, but we know the Ascians helped them. I can only assume it was in such a way that destroyed both his eyes.

I think for one of the Seven to truly die, their eyes must be destroyed like Ratatoskr's. Thordan kept Nidhogg's eyes safe. Therefor he can never truly die.


(I will come back later and link sources and such, but hope this helps! ^^ )

(10-31-2015, 09:30 PM)Momo Wrote: Something I would like to address for the original poster, is a theory that Midgard is omniscient in certain ways, and can see the fate of some of his children.

(10-31-2015, 01:30 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: (I will come back later and link sources and such, but hope this helps! ^^ )

Louisoix Wrote:Twas in the twilight of the Third Astral Era... The southern land of Meracydia suffered invasion at the hands of the Allagan Empire. With no atrocity too depraved for their purpose, the forces of Allag were unstoppable in their advance. Desperate for salvation, the dragons prayed to one of the first brood - to their ancestor Bahamut. Infused by the power of their fervent supplications, Bahamut arose from the abyss of death and took wing as the Meracydians' newborn god.

Hraesvelgr Wrote:In an age long past, mine own kin were guilty of like folly. Beguiled by the dark ones' lies, they attempted to resurrect a king amongst wyrms - yet the divinity they called forth merely borrowed the semblence of my fallen brood-brother. Such gods are not summoned, but created. Phantoms spun from the threads of misplaced faith.

Tiamat Wrote:Hearken to my tale, child of man. I am Tiamat, of Midgardsormr's first brood. In a time before time, my father did come to this star, bearing seven eggs. From these eggs did my brood hatch. And once they were full-grown, they took wing and spread across all the lands of Hydaelyn. Together with my brood-brother Bahamut, I journeyed south to Meracydia. And together, we brought forth innumerable children into the world. We abided in peace, and all was well... until the men of Allag came, some five thousand years since. They slaughtered my children in droves, and took from me my beloved Bahamut.

Twas then, when I had fallen into the depths of despair, that black-robed men came unto me. The Ascians. They offered to resurrect Bahamut through their dark arts, and I, in my grief, accepted - a decision which I shall regret unto my dying breath. For what they brought back was a mockery of my beloved. Worse, the Ascians gifted his murderers the means to entrap him. Know this, child of man: the beings thy call gods are but specters of thy mind's creation, given form at great cost to Hydaelyn. Many such beings yet slumber across the land, brought to heel by the selfsame empire that bound me. They must not be released into the world.

Hraesvelgr Wrote:Two centuries of harmony were to follow, during which time the Elezen learned much about us, not least that the eyes of a great wyrm are the wellspring of his strength. Twas out of selfish desire to possess this strength that King Thordan then conspired to undo all that our peoples had achieved together. With the aid of his leal knights, that most noble of Elezen lured my brood-sister Ratatoskr into an ambush, and took from her that which he craved.

Fain would I strike the image from my mind, yet still the scene doth linger - of my brood-sister's tattered corpse, defiled by her Elezen allies. They had torn out her eyes, and feasted upon them in a manner of wild beasts. Yet that was not all, for from their bloody banquet, the fiends had gained strength beyond that of mortal men... Even now, I labor to comprehend the enormity of their betrayal.

Nidhogg was the first to learn of the atrocity, and he took to the skies, hungry for vengeance. But though he slew Thordan and some few of his knights, their fellow butchers knew only too well where to aim their spears, and with now-practiced savagery, they set about my brood-brother, sending him flailing from the field...

Nidhogg Wrote:We are undone by covetous mortals. They did take Ratatoskr's eyes... and glut their appetites upon her essence...

Haldrath Wrote:Aye... the wyrm lies broken and my father is avenged. With the wellspring of his vitality thus denied him, Nidhogg shall not linger long in this world. But behold the terrible price we have paid.

Tiamat Wrote:Millennia have passed since I was brought low by the men of Allag. To think that war rageth still between our kinds...

Midgardsormr Wrote:It hath been five thousand years, my child. Wilt thou not forgive thyself?

Tiamat Wrote:The release of death is denied me here, yet I desire not freedom. Nay, Father. I shall live with my regret until the world itself hath ceased to be. Such is my just punishment for consorting with Darkness - for calling forth a loathsome and lamentable creature which blackeneth my beloved's memory.

Fernehalwes Wrote:There also happens to be one place on the Azys Lla map that features a name in the dragon language. One may ask how this is possible, as it goes completely against the naming conventions used for other locations in the area. Well, the story behind this is that the name is, in fact, an Allagan creation, not something that the dragons themselves coined. At the height of their civilization, the Allagans felt that they had achieved intellectual supremacy over all other beings on Hydaelyn, the mighty dragons included. Even the dragon language, once believed impossible to crack, was fully deciphered by Allagan linguists─or so they claimed. Using the ‘impossible’ language became a fad, and dragonspeak was, for a time, incorporated everywhere from restaurant names to cereal brands. The claw-like formation in the Delta Quadrant—Esh Thom—is an attempt by an Allagan to make a play on the dragonspeak word for god “es{h}e{h}d,” which is, in fact, a compound meaning “highest spirit.” The Allagan who coined the term took the e{h}d portion (highest) and replaced it with “t{h}om” (bottom-most), possibly to express the late Allagan civilization’s departure from matters theological and their disdain for those who still adhered to their belief in an almighty being watching over them. It turns out that the joke was on the Allagans, as not only did a planet-wide calamity put an end to their reign over Hydaelyn, but the name Esh Thom does not translate into “the lowest of spirits,” but more closely to “an underdeveloped spirit,” a trait which can possibly be attributed to the fall of their people.

Midgardsormr Wrote:Who treadeth now upon my bones and waketh me from slumber sweet?

Sightseeing Vista #017 Wrote:Tharl Oom Khash
An ancient structure half consumed by crystal, its name means "crystal from remorse" in the tongue of dragons. From the sheer mass of crystallization, it has been posited that an entity possessed of aetheric power to rival the seven great wyrms laid down its life here...

Sightseeing Vista #079 Wrote:Rathefrost
The fall of the Agrius into Silvertear Falls not only drained the magnificent multi-tiered lake, but instantly crystallized the majority of the region's flora - a result of mass quantities of ceruleum fuel reacting with aether released upon Midgardsormr's death. What remains is a brilliant, yet dead landscape akin to a twisted garden pocked with blooming geodes.

(10-31-2015, 11:24 PM)Mae Wrote: My understanding is that events went, roughly, in the following order:

-- Ascians give the Allags the means of capturing and killing Bahamut.
-- Allags kill Bahamut.
-- Ascians then approach Tiamat and instructed her in how to 'resurrect' Bahamut.
-- Tiamat and the dragons of Meracydia 'ressurect' Bahamut... in the form of a Primal.
-- Tiamat realizes that Primal-Bahamut is a Bad Idea... as is summoning -any- Primal.
-- Ascians give the Allags the means of imprisoning Primal-Bahamut for their use. The Allags also imprison Tiamat.
-- Allags eventually die out. Primal-Bahamut is left in Dalamud, Tiamat is still imprisoned.
-- 10,000 years or so pass.
-- Calamity happens.
-- Coil stuff happens.
-- MSQ in Azys Lla happens. Tiamat is still imprisoned. She is offered freedom, but declines it as punishment for being the first to summon Primal-Bahamut.

(11-01-2015, 02:26 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:

(10-31-2015, 01:30 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: (I will come back later and link sources and such, but hope this helps! ^^ )

-le snip-

(11-01-2015, 03:21 PM)Dante Abigor Wrote: The WoL may have been the one to awaken him, but the WoL certainly wasnt his first visitor, seeing as how you have to fight platoons of Garleans to get to him in the first place, and until he hitches a ride inside of you he was all for the whole "kill all (humanz)" ideal, so why did it take him fifteen years (Give or take) to wake up and start doing things again?

Midgardsormr Wrote:I did but strip thee of thy mistress's feeble blessing. Thou didst profit much by Her grace, but no more. The covenant binds me to thee. I shall watch... listen... and wait. Fight and struggle, if it be thy will. Man hath ever coveted that which lieth beyond his grasp. I drink of Her body, and thence doth mine own find new life. When it hath grown whole, the loyal and penitent shall rejoice.

Midgardsormr Wrote:Thou hast broken down the wall I built around thee, and partaken of thy mistress's blessing once more. Strong art thou, mortal - stronger than any other of thy kind. Having looked upon thy deeds, I am convinced. Thou art worthy to bear Her Light. The covenant bound me to thee, but 'twould seem our fates were mingled from the first. Though I will not fight thy battles, I will yet lend thee my wings.

(11-01-2015, 03:21 PM)Dante Abigor Wrote: And on that subject why does what is essentially a massive space monster *cough* Jenova *cough* have a working relationship with the will of a planet to the point that he can disable said will's blessing? I realize at this point Im treading into the realm of "there just isnt an answer yet", but its getting weirder the more I find out.

Erik Wrote:Oh, there are any number of legends and myths surrounding the place. I think the oldest and most widely known would have to be that of the dragon of the Falls. I do not claim to be a folklorist, but I can certainly provide the general tale.

There was the birth of Althyk, god of time among the Twelve, and in turn, His younger sister Nymeia, goddess of fate. And then there was water, and through it Silvertear Falls came to be at the center of all that was. Here was the source not only of water, but the fount of all magic as well. Now, when water came into being, so too did the great dragon Midgardsormr. Brother Time and Sister Fate, fearing the Falls might fall into the hands of evil, ordered Midgardsormr their protector and warden. Much later, with the arrival of man, would Midgardsormr be worshiped as the guardian deity of Silvertear Falls.

(11-01-2015, 03:21 PM)Dante Abigor Wrote: EDIT: What is Midgardsormr's seal? I know he guards the lake but I dont remember anything about him managing a seal.

Cid Wrote:Evil approaches, and standing alone will only make you that much more vulnerable. And I speak not only of the Garlean Empire, but of something else. Something more sinister. Have you not looked up into the sky and noticed something amiss? The lesser moon, Dalamud─have you not witnessed it swell like a tumor, redden like the gout?

Even the realm's natural flow of aetheric energy has been disrupted. All aether would─should pass through Silvertear Lake upon returning to the Land, but it now appears that something is bending the energy's course─drawing it away. This has upset the balance of all life and matter in Eorzea. It is why the weather has become unpredictable, why creatures have grown large and fierce, why crystals are losing their aspect. Quite what could be drawing the aether, and what will happen if this phenomenon is allowed to continue, I cannot say. But what I can tell you with absolute certainty is that your petty quarrels over money and power are as grains of dust compared to the sandstorm that boils just over the horizon.

(11-01-2015, 03:21 PM)Dante Abigor Wrote: Then another quote of yours mentioning the crystals being his aether mention that he is dead, so I think its fair to assume that what is death for the races of man in FFXIV dont apply to at least Midgardsormr. Its also fair to assume that his first body is "dead" since he went through the trouble of making a new one in the first place, but maybe he can have multiple bodies or whatever.

(11-01-2015, 03:21 PM)Dante Abigor Wrote: Another spitball thought that caught my attention in your quotes is that the Allagans were conquering everything during their reign. Why wasnt Silvertear Lake a target?

Erik Wrote:Since ancient times, the Falls and the region of Mor Dhona in which they are located have been believed to be the seat of a great spiritual energy, as less advanced peoples are wont to call it. So old are these beliefs that the tomb of Xande himself, the first emperor of Allag, was built deep beneath the surface of Mor Dhona, in the hope that the mystical power which resided under the lake would raise him from the dead.