(02-17-2016, 06:22 AM)Amarante Wrote: Would it be possible for one of our characters to beat a Primal? Is that something only the Warrior of Light can do, or someone that has the Echo? Which is the WOL has and all.

Summoners.. would lore restrict a character being a summoner, due to the fact you would have to be in close proximity to a Primal for that? Am I remembering that right?

(01-03-2016, 01:03 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Hrrmmm that's a difficult one. I guess let's start off with what we know about Summoning and see what we can swing out of it:

1) You need to have seen the primal, or have a memory of it. (Your soulstone idea can take care of this.)

Fernehalwes Wrote:As for how to create an egi, as you said before, you get that mist – that taint – by defeating it; it goes into you. You are creating an image of what that primal was, so without ever having seen it, you cannot create it. By attuning with their aetherial remnant, you know that primal and can attune an egi in that image.

2) You must have defeated the primal or been present at its defeat.

Y'mhitra Wrote:A summoner is a unique type of mage who harnesses the energy of the primals and reshapes it into a biddable avatar. In the ancient Allagan tongue, these avatars are known as "egi." Only those who are present at the defeat of a primal and have captured its savage essence are able to manifest such aetheric entities.

3) You must perform the Austerity or Rite to tame the egi.

Y'mhitra Wrote:According to the records we recovered, the summoners of old would perform these rites in a land in which the naturally dominant element matched the aspect of the avatar they wished to call forth. Only in such a place might one sufficiently shift one's aetheric balance in the desired direction.

Now you must focus. Visualize the aether flowing through you, a vibrant current of energy transforming into living fire. Hold this image in your mind, and the raging heat of your life force shall spawn an egi wreathed in flames! Be aware, however, that this nascent entity will appear before you unbound and hostile. It is your charge to overpower the avatar, and establish yourself as its master.

4) You cannot summon an egi of a powerful primal that requires more aether than you possess.

Y'mhitra Wrote:And as I struggled to unravel the ancient knowledge of the tomestones, I unlocked a good many mysteries...including the reason why you were unable to call forth Ramuh-Egi. When you summon an avatar, you draw upon your body's reservoir of aether to grant life and form to what is known as an arcane entity─that much we already knew. I had, however, overlooked the simple fact that our aetheric reserves are finite─thus the magnitude of egi that you are able to summon is limited by the extent of your own life force. Simply put, if the egi is too powerful, then the summoning fails... But do not despair! The summoners of Allag devised a method by which one might circumvent this intrinsic limitation. Rather than attempt to summon a separate, physical manifestation of certain egi, the most accomplished mages discovered that far less aether was required to infuse themselves with the essence of a primal's power. The technique by which a summoner would achieve this heightened state was known as a “trance.”

The soulstone avenue is a good idea to take care of the first hurtle, actually witnessing a primal. With an old enough soulstone, it's likely that it contains some memory of the elder primal. That said, soulstones don't always give up their memories freely. Perhaps visiting an area swamped with Bahamut's aether may awaken the memory within the soulstone.

Which leads to where do you find a large concentration of Bahamut's aether that you might be able to steal his essence... I can think of two places that may be a stretch but should work for your purposes:

1- The Burning Wall, site of the final coil.
2- Carteneau Flats, site of the Battle of Carteneau.

Both of these locations have witnessed the death of Bahamut. Now, according to the lore provided, this wash of essence occurs immediately following the primal's death as their aether is sundered from their body and soaks the area around them. But here is where we can pull Monk lore into the mix:

Erik Wrote:When a living thing dies, the aether comprising its life is released. It has been learned that when this discharge takes place, a portion of that aether remains, lingering in the physical world. No doubt you have come across aetherial crystallizations in the course of your travels. All scholars now agree that these are the physical manifestations of great concentrations of aether.

Right, well, the amount of aether that can shift between the physical and aetherial realms in any given instant is limited. I call this the aetherial threshold. Any aether present in excess of that threshold is left behind. The more violent or dramatic the loss of life, the greater the amount of inner aether released to take the form of crystals or remain imperceptibly in the atmosphere. And you surely recollect the scene I identified as the most apt to produce such violent deaths? On the field of battle!

Bahamut's aether is immense. The Elder Primal had spent nearly a year draining Hydaelyn of all Her life force to fuel himself and pulled even from the sun. When he died, he sent aether exploding out across the realm. At the site of his demise, the aether is at its greatest concentration, meaning that not all of it could have dissipated because of the aetherial threshold, leaving behind crystalline structures containing that taint. Go to the entrance to the final coil in the Burning Wall, even though it is sealed, perhaps the taint still leaks from within, trying to escape to the surface. Go to Carteneau, though Bahamut recovered much of his own aether to reconstruct his form, he could not fully reform due to much of his aether already dissipating or coalescing into crystal, which are clearly visible in the north reaches of Mor Dhona. Tap into the crystals and you should be able to recover enough of the taint to master his form.


This seems to follow pretty well in line with the actual summoning questline:

I Could Have Tranced All Night Wrote:Y'mhitra greets you with great enthusiasm, claiming to have unlocked a good many mysteries during her latest bout of study. She goes on to explain how you might circumvent the intrinsic aetheric limitations that prevented you from summoning Ramuh-Egi by adopting a method used by the ancient Allagans─a technique known as a “trance.” After suggesting that you attempt to infuse yourself with the essence of the terrible Bahamut, she admits that you will need Captain Wolf's assistance to enter what may be the only appropriate ritual location. Against his better judgment, Dancing Wolf has agreed to help you enter the contested territory of the Carteneau Flats. Head to the airship landing and petition the elite flyer to transport you to the edge of the aether-soaked wasteland.

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More SMN Lore

Y'mhitra Wrote:Let us review the history and role of the summoner, that we might never forget the tragedy that befell the unfortunate Tristan.

A summoner is a unique type of mage who harnesses the energy of the primals and reshapes it into a biddable avatar. In the ancient Allagan tongue, these avatars are known as "egi." Only those who are present at the defeat of a primal and have captured its savage essence are able to manifest such aetheric entities. Now, any explanation of the summoner is not complete without a brief history of its origin.

The Allagan Empire reached its peak during the Third Astral Era. Dissatisfied with dominion over Eorzea alone, this thriving civilization sought to expand its borders to ever more distant lands. Eventually, the empire cast its avaricious gaze upon the southern continent of Meracydia. The peoples of these nations did not, however, take kindly to being invaded, and they summoned the primals to repel the Allagan forces. Hard-pressed by these incarnations of elemental wrath, the leaders of the empire's military were forced to alter their tactics. They ordered the mages under their command to devise some manner of magic with which to counter the primals, and, after much experimentation, the art of summoning was born.

The magic invented by these arcane pioneers met with great success, and, within the Allagan Empire, the title of "summoner" earned the bearer an uncommon measure of awe and respect.

Y'mhitra Wrote:My studies of the tomestones revealed to me a tale of adulation: the summoners of Allag were revered as heroes for their part in defeating the ancient primals. But reverence slowly turned to revulsion as practitioners─intoxicated by their own immense power─began wielding the art of summoning as a means to further their own selfish ambitions. That is not to say, of course, that all summoners chose to become tyrants. Amongst the common people, however, it became a strongly held superstition that those who meddled in the powers of primals ultimately fell into the embrace of evil. This superstition blossomed into outright terror, and that is when the mage hunts began... By the end of the Third Astral Era, the last of the summoners had vanished from the stage of history.

(While the "official" history credits the Allagans with the creation of Summoning, certain aspects of the MSQ heavily suggest that the Ascians may have taught the Allagans exactly how to do it in the first place.)

Y'mhitra Wrote:In the ancient tongue of the Allagan Empire, it would be known as “Ifrit-Egi,” where “egi” translates approximately to “pure” or “the essence of.” In short, you have tamed a willful manifestation of Ifrit's raging fires.

Y'mhitra Wrote:According to the records we recovered, the summoners of old would perform these rites in a land in which the naturally dominant element matched the aspect of the avatar they wished to call forth. Only in such a place might one sufficiently shift one's aetheric balance in the desired direction.

Now you must focus. Visualize the aether flowing through you, a vibrant current of energy transforming into living fire. Hold this image in your mind, and the raging heat of your life force shall spawn an egi wreathed in flames! Be aware, however, that this nascent entity will appear before you unbound and hostile. It is your charge to overpower the avatar, and establish yourself as its master.

Gamerescape E3 Interview Wrote:Q: At Fan Fest, we had some people very interested in the nature of faeries and we got a lot of information about that. I thought we might talk about Egi this time. We know the story is that you’re tainted by the aetherial mist that comes about in a primal’s defeat. Can you be more specific about how that works and how that comes back out in the entity you summon?

MCKF: Basically, every being is made up of aether. It’s your own aether, and that is you. By taking your aether and splitting it, you create an egi, but you still have yourself. The thing is, you’re maintaining both of these at the same time, which is why summoners can only do this with one egi at a time. If you split yourself too much, your grip on yourself is gone and you fade back into the Lifestream. That’s not to say there aren’t certain beings in the world that have a larger pool of aether; some beings can split into multiple egi, while maintaining that balance, before they die. As for how to create an egi, as you said before, you get that mist – that taint – by defeating it; it goes into you. You are creating an image of what that primal was, so without ever having seen it, you cannot create it. By attuning with their aetherial remnant, you know that primal and can attune an egi in that image. There are no new egis in 3.0, and the reason why will be explained in a way that ties back to this information, as well.

Fernehalwes Wrote:GE: Can you give us some details on what happens to a person when they become tempered by a Primal? How much of their identity remains? Also, speaking of “tempered,” some people have taken to the idea that this term was only supposed to be attached to Ifrit, since tempering involves heat, and we see other terms attached to the process with other primals (Drowned / Touched). Care to shed any insight on what’s up with the different names?

MCKF: Back in 1.0, in that first Ifrit battle, that whole thing is that Ifrit has his blue flames that he spits out. That’s what tempers the people. There used to be NPCs that would go “No! I’d rather die than be tempered!” because it takes all of you away. It tempers you, removes part of your will to make you more acceptable to the teachings of Ifrit and the Amal’jaa. How much of the identity remains depends on how much tempering has been done. You don’t get a full tempering in one shot. One tempering will remove some of your will, but you’re still kind of conscious. If you remember back in 1.x you have people in the Serpent Reavers that were “drowned,” but they were still talking about their lives in the past, but now they’ve changed.

GE: So, it’s like a diet tempered.

MCKF: Yeah, there’s still a little bit of them left, but they’re convinced of the true power of Ifrit, Leviathan, etc. The more you get tempered, the more you lose. Currently, there is no known way to cure the tempering. Currently.

For Ifrit, the process is his blue flame. For Leviathan, they’ll dunk you in the holy water and you become Drowned. It’s the same process, but it’s a different kind. For Garuda you’re being touched by her gales of tempering, and so we’re calling it Touched. It’s that element washing over you and taking part of you away. You can assume there will be something similar with Ramuh and Shiva like Shocked or Frozen.

Fernehalwes Wrote:Q:
After Bahamut Prime is defeated, it is assumed that Bahamut's regenerating body is dispersed into aether so he can finally rest in peace. Does this mean that Bahamut may once again be resurrected as a Primal in a future patch, should we ever step foot in Meracydia?

A:
As has been mentioned in past quests, most primal summoning comes down to the faith of the primal's followers. That faith acts as a beacon for the primal's dispersed aetherial essence, allowing for the remanifestation of a being whose infinite number of parts were tossed into that giant blender known as the Lifestream. If enough followers of Bahamut (or perhaps Dalamud, which, ultimately is the same concept) were to gather and perform a summoning, then technically anything is possible (with the proper amount of aether to act as the catalyst), and it doesn't necessarily need to be on Meracydia (which, in many places is still a smoldering waste, even today). What needs to be understood is that the state of the believers when the summoning occurs directly affects the manner in which the dispersed essence of the deceased is reconfigured. Tiamat, knows of this first hand due to her failed attempt to resummon her fallen beloved. She and Bahamut's brood knew Bahamut better than anyone, but since their hearts were darkened by sorrow stemming from the loss, coupled with hate directed towards the Allagans, the Bahamut that was ultimately brought back ended up being naught but a twisted shell of the dragon Tiamat remembered. This also explains the differences between the actions and temperaments of other primals spanning from 1.0 to 2.0. The needs and desires of the believers doing the summoning changed following the Calamity, resulting in changes in the primals they summoned, Ifrit and Titan, even Shiva all being good examples (though Shiva's differences span back further than just 5 years ago).

Hope this helps! ^^

(02-17-2016, 09:43 AM)Amarante Wrote: How about this..what's the likelihood someone could find a fairy and bond with it? Possible but rare, right?

For a time I considered having my character be a summoning mage... like use the egi, but also be able to use fairies. Like the class switch would be ooc only. But such might be reaching heh