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+--- Thread: Ishgardian Lore (Long post) (/showthread.php?tid=18282)
Ishgardian Lore (Long post) - Redrick - 01-19-2017
I got the courage up to ask the forums some questions before which was really helpful so perhaps I can bother you all with another inquiry? I have a few questions; more so I curious if we have any threads on these particular things? I've looked through a lot of information on here currently but I've gotten some mixed signals as to some of them so I'm curious now. ^^
I'm open to hearing individual headcannons as well as long as they have lore backing and you state they are headcannons; I really appreciate any help I can get. There's so much information in this game lol)Â
(Forgive me I know this is a lot and any questions that are answered I really appreciate)
______________________________________________________________________________________________Ishgardian Elezen: I have heard that their are both Wildwood models and Duskwight models in Ishgard but here's my question. I've heard from several people that both clans are there. But I've read in lore and from others that they've mixed in all the time that Ishgards' been locked up. So is there any actual clear distinction between the two? Or was it just 'in-game model convenience' and lore wise it really doesn't matter which model you use?
Dark Knight Lore: I am aware of the vigilanty aspect and the like now what I'm curious about is since they are so illusive of a group to use the techniques you would still need a soul stone correct? I'm more so curious of the vigilanty aspect and the possibility of a negative Aura for the time being in the character before eventually maybe tapping into certain skills in roleplay under extreme emotional circumstance? Sort of like the Warrior class until you harness it correctly? I have yet to finish the DRK questline so I'm unsure of the situationality behind all of this. Is there any repercussion for using the DRK abilities?
Dragoon lore: I know the lorebook just got done saying there's only 10 or something actual Dragoons with the jumping abilities right? So I've heard you could have a character who trained as a Dragoon but never actually completed training? Aka has some abilities of the Dragoon but not completely or how would that work? Also wasn't Dragoon also just a title given to those that slayed Dragons? So are there, elite dragoons or the knight dragoons and then 'Dragoons' just the slayer of dragons?Â
:The Ishgardian curse: I have completed all of the story that's available but as with many things within this game I'd like to lay it out so I'm sure of myself before building a character and then having someone tell me I"m totally out in left field on the lore. I understand the origin of the curse, my next question is specifically about the details concerning it. Aka; I read in one quest that a woman in the dragoon questline was forced to drink the blood. She transformed but then reverted?; I'm unsure if I read that correctly? Also is it a addiction of sorts? Like a drug or is it more something you try out of curiosity/forced into? Edit: I found a lovely Sounsy post talking about this so I have this one covered~ Thank you all~
Thank you again for any help you can give, now I am to find what I can on the Noble houses, Knighting/Soldier training, and Halones religion.Â
RE: Ishgardian Lore (Long post) - Kilieit - 01-19-2017
Ishgardian elezen were never wildwood or duskwight to begin with - at least not in any way that's meaningful today.
The "wildwood" and "duskwight" division is unique to the Black Shroud.
"Wildwood" is the Gridanian name for the natural way an elezen appears when they and their ancestors live(d) above ground. They have bright skintones, Hyuran-like sight and hearing, and so forth.
But the Shroud is filled with dangerous Elementals who will attack seemingly without provoke. Dozens of generations ago, the elezen who lived there at the time were forced by the Elementals' wrath to move underground and build the city-state of Gelmorra.
The residents of this subterranean city rarely (if ever) saw the light of day, because to do so would mean death by angry tree. As the generations went by, their living situation began to change their physical traits. Their eyesight got worse, their hearing got better, their skin tones began to have less saturation to them.
When the Pact was formed with the Elementals, elezen in the Shroud were able to live above ground again, and over the next few generations they became what is today known as "Wildwood".
Those who chose to remain living underground, in the ruins of Gelmorra itself or in the Shroud's extensive cave systems, remained as what is today called "Duskwight".
The Ishgardian ancestors were never subject to this division. The lore book suggests they are their own sub-race of Elezen (Ishgardian population percentage is listed as "Ishgardian Elezen", not Wildwood or Duskwight) and speculation seems to back this up (they even have their own unique sub-racial trait, as your last bullet covered).
So... ostensibly, they could be considered """wildwood""", because they live above ground and thusly display the physical characteristics of surface-dwelling elezen; but the political moniker does not apply.
Any Ishgardian denizen who refers to themself as Wildwood or Duskwight is, I believe, an immigrant from the Shroud - and in interview one of the developers confirmed there are a fair few Duskwight immigrants to Ishgard, because "things are better for them there" than in Gridania (which is prejudiced against them, whereas Ishgard has no dog in that fight).
RE: Ishgardian Lore (Long post) - Redrick - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 04:51 PM)Kilieit Wrote: So... ostensibly, they could be considered """wildwood""", because they live above ground and thusly display the physical characteristics of surface-dwelling elezen; but the political moniker does not apply.Okay awesome this was exactly what I was looking for~ Thankyou so much, so how they are viewed outside of Ishgard is gonna be completly diffrent vs In it; so in technicality you can play a paleish Wildwood and icly characters will more then likely be guessing if decided to play that way. Thank you for the info, you helped me out last post as wellÂ
Any Ishgardian denizen who refers to themself as Wildwood or Duskwight is, I believe, an immigrant from the Shroud - and in interview one of the developers confirmed there are a fair few Duskwight immigrants to Ishgard, because "things are better for them there" than in Gridania (which is prejudiced against them, whereas Ishgard has no dog in that fight).
RE: Ishgardian Lore (Long post) - Sounsyy - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 04:29 PM)Redrick Wrote: Ishgardian Elezen: I have heard that their are both Wildwood models and Duskwight models in Ishgard but here's my question. I've heard from several people that both clans are there. But I've read in lore and from others that they've mixed in all the time that Ishgards' been locked up. So is there any actual clear distinction between the two? Or was it just 'in-game model convenience' and lore wise it really doesn't matter which model you use?
Kilieit already gave an excellent explanation of this above. Some of the links I'll post below will still reference "wildwood" and "duskwight" Elezen when referring to Ishgard, so I just wanted to first say this and clear the air that some of my posts are outdated without lore book info. So to recap, the majority of Elezen in Ishgard are Ishgardian Elezen. There are also Wildwood and Duskwights there, but Ishgard does not appear to recognize the Wildwood/Duskwight division, or at the very least, are treated far better in Ishgard than in Gridania. This is evidenced by Duskwight nobles like the Dzemael house having both Wildwood and Duskwight models to represent its children.
If you're curious about Gelmorra, this thread might be helpful.
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(01-19-2017, 04:29 PM)Redrick Wrote: Dark Knight Lore: I am aware of the vigilanty aspect and the like now what I'm curious about is since they are so illusive of a group to use the techniques you would still need a soul stone correct? I'm more so curious of the vigilanty aspect and the possibility of a negative Aura for the time being in the character before eventually maybe tapping into certain skills in roleplay under extreme emotional circumstance? Sort of like the Warrior class until you harness it correctly? I have yet to finish the DRK questline so I'm unsure of the situationality behind all of this. Is there any repercussion for using the DRK abilities?
You do still require a soul stone to harness the darkness within.
Fray Wrote:Not so fast. We need to talk about what’s happening to you─what’s growing within you, before you get carried away. There’s a darkness within us all─nothing dangerous, mind. In fact, it’s quite healthy. But the crystal changes you─gives you the power to channel it. Do it without proper training, however, and…well…it might hurt. Now, bear in mind that while the darkness gives you strength, that strength comes at cost. That is but one sacrifice, though─and justice demands many.
And there can be negative effects for overusing your darkside, namely, like the Warrior, being completely consumed by it.
Fray Wrote:Now, should things turn violent─as I expect they shall─you may need to tap into your darkside to survive. It’s not unlike drawing upon your own aether to weave magic. Fear, pain, rage─that which lies in the deepest depths of our soul makes for a potent fuel. But be warned: burn too much too quickly, and you risk being consumed.
A Dark Knight's darkside is essentially drawing upon strong emotions, and while for most Dark Knights, these are strong negative emotions that boil to the surface when fighting against injustice, etc, they can also be emotions like intense happiness, love, loss. If it's strong enough emotion, it can fuel a Dark Knight's magic.
Almost all lore we have on the Dark Knight can be found below:
-Dark Knight Encyclopedia Eorzea Transcriptions by Kilieit
-Dark Knight Lore Compilation
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(01-19-2017, 04:29 PM)Redrick Wrote: Dragoon lore: I know the lorebook just got done saying there's only 10 or something actual Dragoons with the jumping abilities right? So I've heard you could have a character who trained as a Dragoon but never actually completed training? Aka has some abilities of the Dragoon but not completely or how would that work? Also wasn't Dragoon also just a title given to those that slayed Dragons? So are there, elite dragoons or the knight dragoons and then 'Dragoons' just the slayer of dragons?
This came up earlier today, in fact. In short, yes, the lore book has limited the number of the Order of the Knights Dragoon to about 30-odd members at any given time, but after the events of Heavensward, that number has been reduce to about a dozen, because, well, Ishgard just doesn't really need dragoons anymore. That's not to say that there aren't those who weren't trained as a dragoon, were part of the Order, retired but still alive, or do what the dragoons at the Convictory now do- which is guard and patrol supply lines and caravans.
As for how naming goes, there's three tiers of "dragoon."
1) "dragoon" - Any Knight who can prove to the Holy See they have slain a real dragon.
2) "Knight Dragoon" - An elite knight recruited from this pool of Temple Knights who've slain dragons and trained in the elite aerial acrobatic combat tactics by the Order of the Knights Dragoon.
3) "Azure Dragoon" - One of these elite is chosen once every generation by the Eye of Nidhogg to champion Ishgard in the fight against the Horde. It is no longer possible to become an Azure Dragoon in the traditional sense because of events in Heavensward.
More lore on dragoons, the Order, the Azure Dragoon, dragons, and what the Dragoons of Ishgard have been doing since Heavensward ended can be found below:
-Dragoon Lore Compilation
-Discussion Thread on Becoming Dragoon
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(01-19-2017, 04:29 PM)Redrick Wrote: Thank you again for any help you can give, now I am to find what I can on the Noble houses, Knighting/Soldier training, and Halones religion.
Well, these links should help you!
-Four High House Lore Compilation
-List of Known Lesser Noble Houses
-Ishgardian Lore and Titles of Nobility by Bellworks FC
-Ishgardian High House Relations and Political Assassination Lore
-Azure Dragoon & Order of the Knights Dragoon Lore
-The Heavensward and Temple Knight Lore
-Ishgardian Scholasticate, Conjury, and Thaumaturgy Lore
-Dusk, Stone, Steel, Dawn Vigil Lore
-How Has Ishgard Fed Itself?
-Halonic Funeral Lore
-Eorzean Religion Lore Masterpost (Bit in there about Ishgard and the Enchiridion)
-Eorzean Settlements Lore (Coerthas settlements)
-Complete Sightseeing Lore Compilation (Ishgardian ones start at #68)
RE: Ishgardian Lore (Long post) - Redrick - 01-20-2017
(01-19-2017, 08:07 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:AHHH You both are awesome ;A; thank you so much! I want to follow the lore as closely as I can and sometimes it's just difficult to sift through everything. This is so nice and I appreciate it so much thank you bothÂ(01-19-2017, 04:29 PM)Redrick Wrote: Thank you again for any help you can give, now I am to find what I can on the Noble houses, Knighting/Soldier training, and Halones religion.
Well, these links should help you!
-Four High House Lore Compilation
-List of Known Lesser Noble Houses
-Ishgardian Lore and Titles of Nobility by Bellworks FC
-Ishgardian High House Relations and Political Assassination Lore
-Azure Dragoon & Order of the Knights Dragoon Lore
-The Heavensward and Temple Knight Lore
-Ishgardian Scholasticate, Conjury, and Thaumaturgy Lore
-Dusk, Stone, Steel, Dawn Vigil Lore
-How Has Ishgard Fed Itself?
-Halonic Funeral Lore
-Eorzean Religion Lore Masterpost (Bit in there about Ishgard and the Enchiridion)
-Eorzean Settlements Lore (Coerthas settlements)
-Complete Sightseeing Lore Compilation (Ishgardian ones start at #68)