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Nobles? - Averis - 06-23-2013
I'm currently working on a character story involving nobles/highborn. I was wondering if anyone has any lore information about nobles in Eorzea. I know I've heard of some from Ul'dah, but I'd assume there are nobles elsewhere.
Basically, what would you recommend for a noble background that fits the lore, but is not necessarily from Ul'dah?
RE: Nobles? - Aysun - 06-23-2013
Oh man, I wish I could help you, but all the nobility I have seen has been around Ul'dah's story.
That doesn't mean it's not elsewhere, that's just all I've noticed. I hope someone can help!
RE: Nobles? - Merri - 06-23-2013
Honestly, I think you'd have trouble finding nobles from Limsa-lominsa or Gridania. The cultures just don't really support it, though I'm sure you could work something out. As far as it goes, Limsa-lominsa is literally ran by pirates. The closest thing I feel you'd get to an upper class there would be high-ranking officials within the Maelstrom and the Knights of the Barracuda. Even then, most of those people are and/or were pirates at some point in time.
Limsa-lominsa has a much more gritty feel to it. They don't really need nobility to lead them because they're all a bunch of swashbuckling pirates~
Gridania, on the other hand, is incredibly down to earth. They're a humble people who live in harmony with the Twelveswood. By nature they have to be kind and nurturing to the wood, or else they run the risk of incurring the greenwrath/woodsin. There isn't really nobility in Gridania as they all live together on the same plane, more or less. Luxury isn't really a thing in the city-state because they live so close to the land. Culturally, you are only permitted to take what you need to survive and nothing more, and they give back to the wood equally. So the idea of amassing wealth doesn't really fly culturally. That isn't to say there aren't wealthy individuals around, but most Gridanians live simple lives. The closest you'd probably get to a noble in Gridania would be the Padjal, but they're the most humble and kind-hearted people of all and would never consider themselves as such. Plus they aren't a playable race and there's only a small handful of them as far as lore is concerned.
Suffice it to say, Ul'dah is really the only city-state still standing that has an actual upper class, and it's a seedy one at that. Don't let this discourage you, though, as you can easily make something up on the fly that would fit reasonably well with whichever city-state you end up going with.
RE: Nobles? - Vashies Alexander - 06-23-2013
that's going be hard subject... not like you cant do it but still hard. I tryed google nobles for the game all found where some rps noble family stuff but nothing with true fact.
RE: Nobles? - Averis - 06-23-2013
Wow, thanks for the quick replies.
Actually, I should have said that I was thinking of something outside of any of the main cities. Even though 1.0 didn't really have any small villages etc, 2.0 now does, and of varying sizes. I'm thinking I could just make up something? I just wasn't sure if that would be acceptable.
Though, it may not really matter in the end since the idea is that the "estate" or whatever was destroyed when those "fireballs" fell during the calamity. Meaning they are technically no longer a noble. I just wanted to make sure that I could have that kind of background without breaking lore.
RE: Nobles? - Vashies Alexander - 06-23-2013
well good luck and post your story! I would love to see how you make noble woman or mans story.
RE: Nobles? - FreelanceWizard - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 03:11 PM)Averis Wrote: Basically, what would you recommend for a noble background that fits the lore, but is not necessarily from Ul'dah?
What I've seen so far in 2.x is that you could reasonably play a landowner or business owner in La Noscea or the Black Shroud, and in that way be upper class. I don't see any evidence that Limsa Lominsa or Gridania have a typical feudal nobility system. Gridania does seem to have a certain degree of classism based on how "close" you are to the elementals and nature -- certainly, the Conjurers and Herbalists are that way -- but no noble class per se, and Limsa Lominsa appears to be pretty much a benevolent dictatorship of the Admiral with a strong meritocracy component.
So, I'd recommend going with "owned land or a business" and is thus upper class through money. I don't see support in lore for a feudal nobility, or even a parliamentary nobility, outside of Ul'dah.
EDIT: I don't know much of the lore outside of the three main city-states, so that's what I'm basing the above on.
RE: Nobles? - Uther - 06-23-2013
From what we know of Ishgard, they appear to have a system of nobles. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but their crest is representative of the four largest families. They also, to me, seem very medieval. They fight dragons, they have knights (Dragoons), and they value strict religious practices much like Medieval Europe. I'm sure most people probably know this, but "knights" historically were wealthy noble land-owners who were trained in combat and had the most expensive armor and weapons. By that logic, it seems only natural that knights of Ishgard work the same way.
Uther is the youngest in a long line of Ishgard-born Dragoons and, as such, I RP him as someone who comes from wealth and was brought up with a formal education.
Just some food for thought.
RE: Nobles? - Nee Ninean - 06-23-2013
If you want to play a noble perhaps a refugee from Coerthas. With their cavalry and such sort of implied there was a nobility. Also for Ul'dah you would probably have to be related somehow to the Sultana, which means going lala
Course everyone should go lala.
RE: Nobles? - Merri - 06-23-2013
Actually, there's plenty of non-lalafellin nobility in Ul'dah. To be a member of the royal family you would arguably have to be Lalafellin, or at least married to one. But nobility in Ul'dah is more or less related to your wealth, and there's actually only one Lalafell in the syndicate if I remember correctly. Or two. But there's a Roegadyn, and an Elezen with seats in the syndicate. I'd say Hyur are almost represented more in Ul'dahn nobility than anyone.
To run with others have mentioned, being a landowner is one way of being "upper class", so to speak. And there's plenty of room for you to claim that in either the twelveswood (We've seen one manor out in the shroud, that being Haukke's Manor) or La Noscea.
However, if you want the most out of your nobility, Ul'dah is the way to go. All the lavish parties and rivalries you could imagine. There's actually a handful of Ul'dahn nobles in the RP community as well, so there's plenty of room to have interesting roleplay there. Feuding families and what not.
I'd personally be careful with Ishgard if you're sticking close to canon, as we know literally almost next to nothing about their society. The only things we do know for certain is that their head of state is an Arch-bishop, they're a bunch of religious zealots dedicated to Halone, and their military is structured in the way of a knighthood.
Even more so, we don't know much about the state of Ishgard since the calamity other than the fact that it's currently in a perpetual winter that has all but destroyed their chocobo breeding, which was a huge part of Ishgardian culture apparently. I personally would be very, very careful with anything Ishgard related until the city is actually available in-game. (which it will be at one point!)
RE: Nobles? - Kylin - 06-23-2013
Whee! This is right up my alley! As most know, my characters are part of a (complex) noble family. So I've had to become pretty familiar with this topic in a short amount of time. It should also be noted that most of the smaller villages/hamlets in the wilds are technically under jurisdiction of their respective city-state. So their cultures, while they differ slightly, are still usually in line with their region's city-state.
Ul'dah is indeed the center of noble-related matters in Eorzea for the most part. The thing one has to remember here though is that the Syndicate (6 individuals) are THE richest of the city-state. Nobody is on par with them, and those who RP a noble need to understand that and find the proper balance. That said, there are numerous other nobles within the city, many of which are vying for a seat on the Syndicate themselves. Others just try to mind their own business. Of course, the nobility is still far outnumbered by the lower class. There are a lot of people who go to Ul'dah for the opportunity to get rich, but don't necessarily get rich. I guess that's really no different than in the real world when someone leaves their country for another one in hopes of better opportunities.
Gridania does have the potential to have nobles now, with a slight twist. *minor spoiler alert, though nothing major* Gridania is in massive debt to Ul'dah. MAAAASSSIVE. Ul'dahn nobles took advantage of the Calamity to cash in and loaned a crap ton of gil to Gridania to rebuild (structures and aetheryte network especially). So it wouldn't be unrealistic to see an Ul'dahn noble here or there move into Gridania to further exploit the city-state's current predicament. Or even opposite of that, perhaps there could be a noble or two who moved there out of genuine concern for the city's plight and could be sympathetic to the citizens being practically owned by Ul'dah.
Limsa Lominsa...I'm not really aware of any real "nobility" here. As stated earlier in another post, nobles here would just be pirates made rich from plundering or treasure finds. Or there's once again the possibility of nobles from another location moving here to gain some advantage of some sort I suppose. That being said, there's also evidence of nobility beyond Limsa's gates. Costa del Sol is a prime example. If you want to speak to the npcs in the area, you can get a feel for that. The guards there are all employed by a noble.
Ishgard is still much a mystery even after all this time. They've closed off their gates to outsiders by order of their archbishop (their supreme leader and church head) due to a holy war with the dragons. However, there is plenty of evidence to support the fact that there are indeed nobles within the city. There's also talk of the "High Houses" such as House Dzemael. What the overall role of nobles in Ishgardian society is remains somewhat hazy at this time. We do know that chocobo breeding/training originated there though.
Radz-at-Han is another city-state that has a large focal point on nobles. This city-state is foreign to Eorzea (and inaccessible at this time and probably for at least a couple expansions I would assume). It's on an island nation called Thavnair (on a continent called Meracydia). There is lore, however, that mentions the fact that this city-state is run by "houses," indicating that's it not /too/ dissimilar to Ul'dah in that respect.
Long story short, it's possible to have nobles anywhere technically. All that's required is an IC reason for being there that won't contradict the lore. I don't think it's unreasonable to make your own IC manor/estate somewhere in the "country."
RE: Nobles? - Uther - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 06:36 PM)Merri Wrote: I'd personally be careful with Ishgard if you're sticking close to canon, as we know literally almost next to nothing about their society. The only things we do know for certain is that their head of state is an Arch-bishop, they're a bunch of religious zealots dedicated to Halone, and their military is structured in the way of a knighthood.
Even more so, we don't know much about the state of Ishgard since the calamity other than the fact that it's currently in a perpetual winter that has all but destroyed their chocobo breeding, which was a huge part of Ishgardian culture apparently. I personally would be very, very careful with anything Ishgard related until the city is actually available in-game. (which it will be at one point!)
Ishgard is a little sketchy to make a story out of, but honestly if you don't get way too into the woods with it, it can still work. I've managed to make a fine Ishgard back story for my character without lore-breaking. To avoid any post-calamity complications, I just had my character leave before it happened. If you base it around things you know and avoid things you don't, it will still work out for the most part. I know I'm not alone in this. While I only know of maybe one or two other Ishgard characters, I know there are at least a handful of Ala Mhigo refugees out there.
Long story short, Ishgard is a viable RP option, just tread lightly and watch your step so you don't unintentionally lore-break.
That was a bit off-topic, but I always feel the need to speak up whenever Ishgard is mentioned.
RE: Nobles? - Vashies Alexander - 06-23-2013
(06-23-2013, 06:38 PM)Kylin Wrote: Whee! This is right up my alley! As most know, my characters are part of a (complex) noble family. So I've had to become pretty familiar with this topic in a short amount of time. It should also be noted that most of the smaller villages/hamlets in the wilds are technically under jurisdiction of their respective city-state. So their cultures, while they differ slightly, are still usually in line with their region's city-state.you know your stuffÂ
Ul'dah is indeed the center of noble-related matters in Eorzea for the most part. The thing one has to remember here though is that the Syndicate (6 individuals) are THE richest of the city-state. Nobody is on par with them, and those who RP a noble need to understand that and find the proper balance. That said, there are numerous other nobles within the city, many of which are vying for a seat on the Syndicate themselves. Others just try to mind their own business. Of course, the nobility is still far outnumbered by the lower class. There are a lot of people who go to Ul'dah for the opportunity to get rich, but don't necessarily get rich. I guess that's really no different than in the real world when someone leaves their country for another one in hopes of better opportunities.
Gridania does have the potential to have nobles now, with a slight twist. *minor spoiler alert, though nothing major* Gridania is in massive debt to Ul'dah. MAAAASSSIVE. Ul'dahn nobles took advantage of the Calamity to cash in and loaned a crap ton of gil to Gridania to rebuild (structures and aetheryte network especially). So it wouldn't be unrealistic to see an Ul'dahn noble here or there move into Gridania to further exploit the city-state's current predicament. Or even opposite of that, perhaps there could be a noble or two who moved there out of genuine concern for the city's plight and could be sympathetic to the citizens being practically owned by Ul'dah.
Limsa Lominsa...I'm not really aware of any real "nobility" here. As stated earlier in another post, nobles here would just be pirates made rich from plundering or treasure finds. Or there's once again the possibility of nobles from another location moving here to gain some advantage of some sort I suppose. That being said, there's also evidence of nobility beyond Limsa's gates. Costa del Sol is a prime example. If you want to speak to the npcs in the area, you can get a feel for that. The guards there are all employed by a noble.
Ishgard is still much a mystery even after all this time. They've closed off their gates to outsiders by order of their archbishop (their supreme leader and church head) due to a holy war with the dragons. However, there is plenty of evidence to support the fact that there are indeed nobles within the city. There's also talk of the "High Houses" such as House Dzemael. What the overall role of nobles in Ishgardian society is remains somewhat hazy at this time. We do know that chocobo breeding/training originated there though.
Radz-at-Han is another city-state that has a large focal point on nobles. This city-state is foreign to Eorzea (and inaccessible at this time and probably for at least a couple expansions I would assume). It's on an island nation called Thavnair (on a continent called Meracydia). There is lore, however, that mentions the fact that this city-state is run by "houses," indicating that's it not /too/ dissimilar to Ul'dah in that respect.
Long story short, it's possible to have nobles anywhere technically. All that's required is an IC reason for being there that won't contradict the lore. I don't think it's unreasonable to make your own IC manor/estate somewhere in the "country."
RE: Nobles? - Averis - 06-23-2013
Wow, amazing info.
Yeah, I'm not too sure about using a city we don't know too much about. Though, there are certainly some decent ideas on how to work around it.
I think, for me, the best bet is to have some manor/estate somewhere in the world and just go with that. I may even be as vague as "somewhere in the north". Haha. In the case of my story the reasons for how or why they were/are a noble is not as important as how it affected them and their personality.Â
Thanks everyone for the replies. Course any more information and ideas would be great.
RE: Nobles? - Spiritual Machine - 07-02-2013
Hi, I'm new here, so I'm hoping I'm not making a bad impression by disagreeing with some of the above posters.
Ul'dah doesn't have "nobles" or a "nobility." Nobles are never mentioned in Ul'dah's lore. This site's wiki and the official lore information make it clear that Ul'dah has a royal family, and below that, it is those who obtain the most money and prestige that make up the upper class.
Like in American and other real-life Western nations, you can rise to the upper class in Ul'dah by acquiring opulence, and you stay there by maintaining wealth and status. It isn't hereditary--you "make it" in Ul'dah by being lucky or by being industrious. The city is dominated by entrepreneurs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility
The word "nobility" has very specific connotations related to an established upper class in a tiered social society that is impenetrable, because it is either hereditary or, like a traditional Aristocracy, determined by the ruling class.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_family
It's better to compare an "upper class" family in Ul'dah to the famous Rockefeller family. Not a "noble house," but a rich and successful family with vast connections. Many Syndicate members demonstrate the true nature of the upper class, with Chief Foreman Fyrgeiss of Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern and Chairman Lord Lolorito of the East Aldenard Trading Company. Their names are only important because their businesses are important. Amajina's name will only live on as the company's name, because money and business change hands.
Nobility means something different in the lore from simply being upper class. It is characterized by heritage, eminence and distinct privilege over lesser peoples. In Hydaelyn there are lands where there is a strict divide between commoners and the aristocracy, rather than a loose class system determined by success and affluence. The three primary city-states don't have anything like that.
If you wanted to play a true-blue noble in the lore, you'd likely have to be from Ishgard. And if you left Ishgard to come to the other city-states, your nobility isn't important to anyone but you. Your money might be worth something though!
All the people I see in the wiki playing "noble" characters seem to just be playing wealthy characters with businesses and big homes out in the country and stuff, and that's fine. Certainly you can be an "heir" to such fortune and responsibility, and that is sorta like being a nobleman. That's not nobility though--that's upper class.
You can be a member of an "upper class" in every city-state though! All you need is money, power, rich friends, all that stuff. Owning a successful business or being a prosperous merchant couldn't hurt, either.