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+--- Thread: Languages? (/showthread.php?tid=3067)
Languages? - DimmerMeerkat - 07-24-2013
I have a quick question about languages in the realm of Eorzea. Bear in mind that I never set finger on 1.0, and I only started playing XIV as early as the start of Phase 3. I have very little in the way of exposure, so I apologize if this is a really stupid or obvious question:
Are there other spoken/written languages in Eorzea other than the presumed common tongue?
I wanted to know because I may or may not have succumb entirely to my terrible predisposition towards altitis, and am potentially considering introducing one of my alts from FFXI in to the FFXIV universe, with a very similar story to her FFXI incarnation. One of the things that I liked about this character was the fact that she spoke with an accent due to her (intensely isolated) tribe speaking another tongue.
I suspect I'm probably not out of bounds to roll with the idea anyway, especially if the tribe is really very isolated, but I wanted to poke around and see if there are any references to other languages being spoken in the game's environment.
RE: Languages? - FreelanceWizard - 07-24-2013
We actually had a thread similar to this about racial languages not too long ago.
In that thread, we all dug up some lore that basically says that, yes, there were certainly roegadyn and likely miqo'te racial languages long ago, but they're long since dead and really live on only in names. All "normal" Eorzeans speak, well, Eorzean. That said, you could, in theory, have a character from a "long lost tribe" of miqo'te or roegadyn that's only recently started picking up modern Eorzean, I suppose.Now, for other languages? The heavy accenting on the beastmen when they speak and the implication in the cutscenes that others can't exactly grasp what they're saying strongly implies to me, at least, that they have their own languages or did until relatively recently, though they many seem to be able to speak Eorzean as well.
RE: Languages? - DimmerMeerkat - 07-24-2013
Aha, that was a very interesting read. Thanks for the reference.
Is the continent of Eorzea considered fully explored? If not, I might be able to roll with a fringe tribe that wasn't exposed to any outside influence for... many many hundreds of years. >.>
RE: Languages? - Spiritual Machine - 07-24-2013
Even though the Miqo'te population is incredibly low in Eorzea compared to literally any other race on the continent, it wouldn't be unheard of for a tribe to become isolated, especially a Keeper tribe, given how they operate. A lot of the continent is known of, but doesn't seem to be heavily explored.
However, keep in mind that if an isolated Keeper Miqo'te tribe in Eorzea spoke a language other than modern Eorzean, it would likely only be the ancient Miqo'te language or a limited derivative thereof.
This sorta limits your options as far as an accent goes. Hard aitches, hissing/spitting sounds in pronunciations, and... I don't know, maybe trilled r's. Or maybe that's just Mithra.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61150-Miqo-te-Naming-Conventions
This page sorta hints at the Miqo'te language being one of harsh sounds, so I'd predict a harsh accent. Maybe something akin to many Middle Eastern accents?
Apropos of this topic, I see a trend when it comes to this topic from one game to the next. A lot of roleplayers seem to dislike it when others point out something in the lore that limits their ability to creatively use a favored concept, especially when that concept is a foreign language/accent.
Yet, when it comes to making ones character unique, I have to wonder why having an improbable accent is so popular, to where people will invent reasons to have one. What does having an accent add to a character? How does it enrich their interactions and development? If the answer involves an alien perspective of the modern world, why is an alternative language (or especially an alternative accent) in particular so important for expressing this characteristic?
I think that every roleplayer using an unusual but popular quality to make their character unique should question whether it is a trait that affects how the character could develop, or if it's just a trope that makes for a handy label.
RE: Languages? - Castegyre - 07-24-2013
It is senseless to assume that there's no link to previous or other languages for the peoples in the setting. Otherwise the naming conventions of some of the races would be pointless and make no sense. In fact, from the main page of the game's site: "The Hyur champion personal freedom and liberty, and their espousal of an eclectic variety of languages and traditions is a legacy of their diverse heritage―as is their resulting lack of a unified cultural identity." it's obvious that at least the Hyur are aware of more than one language themselves. Some of the peoples in the land probably still hold on to some vestiges of other languages besides the common Eorzean spoken. That doesn't necessarily mean there are scads of people running around speaking completely different languages, though, so players should be careful not to abuse it.
It's also important for the players to remember as OOC information that in most fantasy settings a common tongue is a convenience for the players more so than the characters in the setting. Making up too many languages for the setting might work for the characters ICly, but might make the players behind the characters get lost or annoyed with the attempt at creativity.
RE: Languages? - Spiritual Machine - 07-24-2013
Oh, there's certainly a link to those languages. Many of the languages are lost though, particularly for the non-Hyuran races and cultures. The lore tells us that the ancient Roegadyn language is lost to them, and that over time the original pronunciations of many Miqo'te words in their language were lost.
As for the Hyur, their thing is that they came from other lands and settled in Eorzea. Many other lands, in fact--they are apparently the most populous race in the world. Differences in the naming conventions of Highland Hyur and Garlean Hyur may hint at unique bygone languages.
But on Eorzea, they all seem to speak the same language. I could be wrong about this of course, but it's possible that the lore is espousing that the Hyur have a variety of languages and traditions throughout the entire world, rather than simply in Eorzea.
RE: Languages? - Teardrop - 07-24-2013
I think its easy to forget that an accent can develop that distinguishes different regions within the same language. It doesn't have to be necessarily a derivative of an ancient foreign language, it can be regional accents, dialect, etc of the same language, in this case, Eorzean. Regional accents and dialects occur in a wide variety of countries within the same native tongue, not developed by foreign migration or non-native speakers, but through simply being in a different location in the country, and I don't think it would be a stretch of the imagination to think the same thing could not occur within Eorzea. Not sure running into people with accents in Eorzea would be such an improbability...I know I run into it all the time during my travels through the States with native English-speakers
. We may speak English, but we definitely don't all speak it the same 
!Compared to a bastard half-whatever orphan raised by adoptive parents outside their race, honestly, someone wanting their character to have an accent is really the easiest thing for me to swallow readily regarding one's background story...not sure it would ever bother me to run into one.
RE: Languages? - Spiritual Machine - 07-24-2013
(07-24-2013, 08:18 PM)Teardrop Wrote: I think its easy to forget that an accent can develop that distinguishes different regions within the same language. Â It doesn't have to be necessarily a derivative of an ancient foreign language, it can be regional accents, dialect, etc of the same language, in this case, Eorzean. Â Regional accents and dialects occur in a wide variety of countries within the same native tongue, not developed by foreign migration or non-native speakers, but through simply being in a different location in the country, and I don't think it would be a stretch of the imagination to think the same thing could not occur within Eorzea. Â Not sure running into people with accents in Eorzea would be such an improbability...I know I run into it all the time during my travels through the States with native English-speakersTrue.
Compared to a bastard half-whatever orphan raised by adoptive parents outside their race, honestly, someone wanting their character to have an accent is really the easiest thing for me to swallow readily regarding one's background story...not sure it would ever bother me to run into one.
But do we know what the regional dialects are?
I mean, it's not a bad idea, but here's the scenario I've run into in the past with roleplayers using that explanation for a unique accent: They end up being from a region that my character is from, but I'm not representing any sort of regional accent in my roleplay and/or I and my character don't recognize the accent from interactions with other PCs/NPCs from that region.
So the issue, really, is establishing a standard. Are there any in FFXIV?
(I mean, aside from Limsa's "pirate" accent, anyway...)
RE: Languages? - Castegyre - 07-24-2013
(07-24-2013, 08:18 PM)Teardrop Wrote: I think its easy to forget that an accent can develop that distinguishes different regions within the same language. Â It doesn't have to be necessarily a derivative of an ancient foreign language, it can be regional accents, dialect, etc of the same language, in this case, Eorzean. Â Regional accents and dialects occur in a wide variety of countries within the same native tongue, not developed by foreign migration or non-native speakers, but through simply being in a different location in the country, and I don't think it would be a stretch of the imagination to think the same thing could not occur within Eorzea. Â Not sure running into people with accents in Eorzea would be such an improbability...I know I run into it all the time during my travels through the States with native English-speakers
This is very true. I'm a military brat from a long line of generations of military service. My family is spread all over the place. I have scotch-irish family in the Appalachians and scottish descended family in upstate New York that even use some of the same wording for certain things and sound nothing alike in their accents. And none of them sound like my family in Missouri, Michigan, or Arizona, but many of them can trace back their family roots to similar origins.
RE: Languages? - FreelanceWizard - 07-24-2013
(07-24-2013, 07:16 PM)Castegyre Wrote: It's also important for the players to remember as OOC information that in most fantasy settings a common tongue is a convenience for the players more so than the characters in the setting.
That doesn't appear to be case in XIV, though. There's "modern Eorzean," and that's it for PCs who live in Eorzea. Sure, there's at least one regional dialect and accent in Limsa Lominsa, but only one language (reference: Roegadyn Naming Conventions).
I think it's reasonable to come up with other accents based on areas not represented in game but that must exist and are empty spaces that can be filled in for PC backstories. You can easily handwave such accents as, "I come fr'm da village such-n'-such in suth'rn Than'lan, and we jus' talk dis way."
RE: Languages? - Ildur - 07-25-2013
I think we should see Eorzea as Ancient Greece: Some of the greek city-states had their own version of the greek language, but they all were so similar that it was basically the same, with some small differences that wouldn't be worth representing in roleplay. Except for pirate speak, I guess, because pirates!
The Lalafell Naming Conventons mentions an anomaly in some of the male names, caused by a sound that is no longer represented in the modern language. So that means lalas, Miqo'te and Roegadyn has their own languages at some point in the past.
RE: Languages? - DimmerMeerkat - 07-26-2013
(07-24-2013, 06:44 PM)Spiritual Machine Wrote: Yet, when it comes to making ones character unique, I have to wonder why having an improbable accent is so popular, to where people will invent reasons to have one. What does having an accent add to a character? How does it enrich their interactions and development? If the answer involves an alien perspective of the modern world, why is an alternative language (or especially an alternative accent) in particular so important for expressing this characteristic?
Good questions. I assure you that my question is really only something that's on the surface of developing this character.
I've already brought Kaahi Faahtra in to the fray--a reinvention of my main character in FFXI, adjusted for FFXIV. I'm still working on her background, but I've thankfully been able to keep her name since it doesn't at all fall outside of the naming conventions of Keepers. That character's backstory is also similar in that she was adopted by an Elezen couple--one who loved her dearly, and the other who despised her, just as XI Kaahi's Elvaan foster parents were. Just like in XI as well, she became a thief at a rather young age after being cast out from her home following the death of her foster father. XIV Kaahi's hatred for Hyurs is the same as XI Kaahi's hatred for Humes, although XI Kaahi had reasoning in her backstory that I may completely drop and replace with something a little less sue-ish.
The character I'm asking for is a character who's seen reinvention in other games as well. She would, most likely, be a Seeker rather than a Keeper. In other games I've changed her backstory quite a bit--including her name (and obviously race), but in XIV, I figure I can keep things a lot closer to how they were in XI. This RP character was a member of an island tribe of secluded Mithra (that didn't speak the common tongue) who were wiped out, single handedly, by an antagonistic Elvaan Dark Knight. The character was only a child when the Elvaan decided to spare her and instead keep her in his service, during which she developed a pretty impressive case of Stockholm. Her debut as an RP character began shortly before her eventual liberation. I'm exploring my options for this character in XIV, to keep her as true as possible to her original character in XI. The accent was something unique about her that I liked. If I do follow this character through, I'm still debating on whether or not to phoneticize her speech or to simply type in relatively choppy and flawed English with the occasional declaration of an accent in her emotes.