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Magical Healing - Nimarhie - 09-03-2013
Having just mentioned this on the RP crafting thread, I wondered what everyone else's thoughts are on "a wizard did it" as far as magic and healing goes?
I know, in the game that magical healing is talked about by the npcs, I think even in one cutscene they went into detail about how healing is done magically...
But I never liked using magic, divine or otherwise, being used as the cure-all for health problems. It's too much of a crutch, and it takes away from having General Hospital-like drama stories lol. Even in good scifi shows like Star Trek, they don't magically cure everything with science. Plagues still happen, diseases spread, and cure still have to be developed.
I made Taijha to be a healer or a support-healer, because I love that type of role. But I don't want her to be some magical band-aid that swoops into a village and waves her hawthorne twig or whatever it is (oak maybe?) and the plague goes *poof!*
Healing magic should be a band-aid, not life-saving surgery, or if it is used for such, the healer should feel some sort of negative effect from it, empathic feedback, or something... especially if they are a young healer like Taijha and might not know what they are doing fully. And there should be some sort of knowledge of anatomy and how the body works... otherwise mending a gut wound with magic, might screw up the liver, or leave a leak in the lower intestine...
And you would need some training in micro-surgery for healing a lalafell too!
That's my thoughts on it, what are yours? ^_^
RE: Magical Healing - erosskye - 09-03-2013
Potions can come in many forms. Some heal while others can corrupt the mind. Some burn while others freeze like the icy mountains. Some are green and some are blue. What one to drink? Won't you chose?
RE: Magical Healing - LeCard - 09-03-2013
CNJ quest lines: insert spoiler here
Didn't read? Long story short if applied wrong healing someone with CNJ magic can come back to bite you.
While I have gone alot further in ACN, I haven't really seen much of a mention to any downsides for their magic. It would seem that since ACN is more of a Scientific healing through geometrical manipulations of Aether that failing is mostly just going to get you a puff of smoke and some laughs(unless I've missed something)
Edit:
To address my views on "a wizard did it" I think that if the game lore allows it, and you do more than just end scene next scene magically healed instantly, go for it. However, I would say that playing up a wound could be alot more fun than just waving the wand every time. Maybe you chose to go with the convenient wizard couldn't be found, is on vacation etc. but I would always put the RP experience before being healed. save the instant heals for people constantly around mages and in game wizards, who would naturally patch their friend/ally up.
RE: Magical Healing - Nimarhie - 09-03-2013
I read... Tai is level 16 cnj. It was her starter class actually. I was thnking about that when I wrote my OP, and I'm really happy that SE put setting tidbits in the game like that.
Arcanist magic seems to be a mix of Asian wizardry mixed with Western wizardry with all the talk of geometrical designs and the use of grimoires and such. But I still think you would need to have some understanding of biology to heal properly even with Physik.
RE: Magical Healing - suncitycat - 09-03-2013
I've always seen aether/mana/etc as a "raw" form of magic, and what one does with it determines how it manifests. If that makes any sense <xp As such, I like the idea of having to know anatomy in order to heal. To me, it makes more sense for a conjurer/white mage to tell or guide the aether through the process of healing than just spreading it out and having it automatically mend wounds.
That being said, I always imagined extensive use of healing had drawbacks on a healer. For example, a wound could be too grievous for a conjurer/white mage to take on in one session, so they would have to tend to the areas that need immediate attention first and go to lesser areas at a later time. Even with incremented healing though, they might not being able to help someone in time. Even the best doctors lose a patient once in a while after all.
RE: Magical Healing - LeCard - 09-03-2013
While I would like to this you need an understanding, I haven't seen anything in game yet, so I don't want to put down the line and say you do then have SE come back later and say nope, just learn your spells and it works "magically" But as far as Rogier is concerned I intend to play him as needing a knowledge base (infact I'm doing an entire research journal for everything he has tested to date...still need to finish that/ do ALOT more work on it). I like the idea of the ACN needing more knowledge about their spell than just " say the magic words and poof" magic.
Edit: To FreelanWizards point on healing the dead I like this quote "It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do. Go through his clothes and look for loose change. "
Who knows where this comes from?
RE: Magical Healing - FreelanceWizard - 09-03-2013
There was a thread on this not too long ago, just for reference.
To recap my point from there, we know both non-magical and magical healing exist in the world, and they can be performed without any significant consequences for the caster (improper "conjury," as in Selphie's case, notwithstanding). One can easily come up with lore-friendly reasons why Esuna can't cure a plague, for instance; I go with "conjury repairs 'patterns' to their natural state," which means it alleviates symptoms of illness (by repairing the target's pattern) but doesn't expunge the causative agent. Conversely, curative magic can trivially patch up battle trauma shortly after it's caused, since it's just a matter of the channeled Aether repairing the underlying pattern to how it "should" be. However, a historical injury (scars, a bone that healed improperly, a missing eye, and the like) can't be healed because the target's pattern has changed due to the natural healing process.
Ultimately, though, the limits that magical healing has are dependent on the narrative and the one primary lore restriction, which is that, in general, the dead can't be raised. If the person being healed wants to be fully healed, then great; if not, then that's fine too. Either approach is fine so long as powerposing doesn't come into play on either side and both people agree to the result.
RE: Magical Healing - Bloodwillow - 09-03-2013
(09-03-2013, 10:04 PM)Nimarhie Wrote: Having just mentioned this on the RP crafting thread, I wondered what everyone else's thoughts are on "a wizard did it" as far as magic and healing goes?
I know, in the game that magical healing is talked about by the npcs, I think even in one cutscene they went into detail about how healing is done magically...
But I never liked using magic, divine or otherwise, being used as the cure-all for health problems. It's too much of a crutch, and it takes away from having General Hospital-like drama stories lol. Even in good scifi shows like Star Trek, they don't magically cure everything with science. Plagues still happen, diseases spread, and cure still have to be developed.
I made Taijha to be a healer or a support-healer, because I love that type of role. But I don't want her to be some magical band-aid that swoops into a village and waves her hawthorne twig or whatever it is (oak maybe?) and the plague goes *poof!*
Healing magic should be a band-aid, not life-saving surgery, or if it is used for such, the healer should feel some sort of negative effect from it, empathic feedback, or something... especially if they are a young healer like Taijha and might not know what they are doing fully. And there should be some sort of knowledge of anatomy and how the body works... otherwise mending a gut wound with magic, might screw up the liver, or leave a leak in the lower intestine...
And you would need some training in micro-surgery for healing a lalafell too!
That's my thoughts on it, what are yours? ^_^
I have RPed healers in many games, from EQ through to LoTRO (where there was no magic. Â That was fun)
The thought of a person getting ill or passing out from over exertion in order to save someone's life could be an interesting RP piece.
Here is now I see magical healing.
It comes from the gods, sure enough. Â But to me, one must ask for it yet sacrifice something in return.
So, for example, Defilers in EverQuest 2 are healers. Â Their heals actually harm them in order to heal the other person. Â So in essence they sacrafice their own life essence to keep others alive.
In LoTRO, where there is no real magic, Lore Masters would use powders and the like. Â Mine used a medieval-like healing kit of leeches, bandages, poultices etc.
The healer alt I have in FF14 is how I described above. Â She is young but cares for people of all races deeply. Â If someone is near death, she will over exert her healing to the point of passing out, as she gives her own life energy in exchange for her patron deities' gift.
Of course, one could RP over the years (levels etc) that her training has assisted in not affecting your character as poorly. Â Perhaps they are an alchemist and make basic poultices that could deal with minor injuries?
So many possibilities!
(09-03-2013, 10:43 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Ultimately, though, the limits that magical healing has are dependent on the narrative and the one primary lore restriction, which is that, in general, the dead can't be raised. If the person being healed wants to be fully healed, then great; if not, then that's fine too. Either approach is fine so long as powerposing doesn't come into play on either side and both people agree to the result.
Death is something very different I think.
I guess one could look at it on one's belief system.
I believe all have a soul, and at the moment of death there is a small window where one's soul can be put back into the body.
Of course, losing one's head makes coming back a bit .. difficult.
That's why I never argue with a person if they don't want permadeath. Â I mean we have Phoenix Downs and the like ... pulled off of a phoenix! Â (I guess >.>)
RE: Magical Healing - Nimarhie - 09-03-2013
Heres another one:
For an IC use of Raise and whatever the Acn version is called (cant remember), instead of raising the person from dead, have it be advanced field surgery or something. The person being raised could just be severely wounded and unconscious.
Of course Tai would most likely fail at this spell and probly kill the poor patient... but it's an interesting idea, and makes use of an ooc-only spell.
RE: Magical Healing - Mooncalling - 09-03-2013
I have been playing Healing-type roles for a long time and in several different games. Most of them have been fairly inconsistent lore-wise on healing magics actually function. Â Over the years I have tried filling a bit of the mechanics of how healing magic *might* work.
I have always played with the fact the strength of the life force of the person you are healing has an effect- sometimes a negative one. Â Healing a person whose life force is weak (from age, for instance) or has been drained by some nefarious means is more difficult and less effective. Â Your average adventurer would have a stronger life force than the average peasant due to training, magical items, etc. Â
As for things like plagues, they are all different. While esuna is a cure all for gameplay purposes, in an RP story there would probably be more work to do than just that. Perhaps finding the cure is more a matter of discovering the correct combination of elemental blessings and aether.Â
And as mentioned in the conjurer class story, it is entirely possible to channel your own life force into spells by accident. Â A young or inexperienced conjurer faced with a injury more grievous than she could handle might find herself using her own life to supplement her healing, thus leading to the backlash you mentioned.
Of course, these are all suggestions. Â And if you a doing a more "directed" scene, it is always best to discuses which "rules" all parties wish to follow.
RE: Magical Healing - FreelanceWizard - 09-03-2013
If you look carefully at the effects of Raise and the other lore (including a quest from, I believe, the Thaumaturges' Guild where someone attempts to actually raise the dead, which is considered both morally bankrupt and exceedingly unsafe), that's actually what they're doing -- they bring people back from the brink of death as a result of severe trauma. This is rather in keeping with other modern games of Square Enix, where being reduced to 0 HP is being "knocked out."
Additionally, there's some lore regarding how you return to Aetherytes when severely injured if you've been attuned to them. I can't for the life of me find the reference right now, though.
RE: Magical Healing - Falkner - 09-03-2013
Mmm... For me myself, it's hard to put logic behind or imagining a magic-healing while in real life we live in a magic-less world, but at least from the game's point of view it is clear that Raise is not Resurrection. You can't bring dead people back, at least not with any of the playable Class ability.
The Conjurer's and Arcanist's Raise-type spell is to bring an unconscious entity back to a level of health enough to sustain consciousness, hence the relatively little amount of health restored by the spell and the Weakness debuff that follows the entity being Raised.
Why not bring them to full health and vitality instead? Maybe such ability do exist but not for us player characters. Casting the Raise requires huge amount of Mana and long casting time which asides from game balance, also implies that it is a very exhaustive and difficult spell to perform and requires utmost concentration.
A "complete" Raise is possible I think- but most probably is not a feat accessible to men, Echo-bearer or not, or at least until somewhere in the future patch which unlocks even more advanced masteries.
And although it is probably not depicted in game, I do think that not even the White Mage and Scholar could restore lost or sufficiently destroyed body parts such as a lost arm, leg, or a gouged eye. And there are also huge limitations to what their healings could do to neurological or mental scars such as phobia, repressed memory, or amnesia.
RE: Magical Healing - Nimarhie - 09-03-2013
Freelance, those lore scenes and such were what I was referring to as well, and there's that scene after Tam-tara where the elezen berates the poor healer for sucking at her job...
As for the aetheryte business, it makes me think of that recurring x-files them about how people are actually made of stardust and we all go back to the heavens as stars when we die.
Anyway, this is a fun thread, please continue, but I need to get to bed... I'll read more tomorrow, and that thread on medicine.
RE: Magical Healing - FreelanceWizard - 09-03-2013
(09-03-2013, 11:10 PM)Falkner Wrote: And there are also huge limitations to what their healings could do to neurological or mental scars such as phobia, repressed memory, or amnesia.
It's funny you mention that, because...
RE: Magical Healing - LeCard - 09-03-2013
(09-03-2013, 11:18 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:I imagine that you could "heal mental scars" but it would be more akin to wiping someones memory and the process might not be as selective as you would like. A little too much power, there goes you childhood, a little too little and woops got the part where your see their face, but the hacking off of a limb is still there(now you don't even know who to fear). So yea, Healing the body easy, but much like our modern world, while you might know how to wipe someones memory, the practice is nigh on impossible to a point of anything precise.(09-03-2013, 11:10 PM)Falkner Wrote: And there are also huge limitations to what their healings could do to neurological or mental scars such as phobia, repressed memory, or amnesia.
It's funny you mention that, because...