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Languages? - Knight Kat - 12-13-2013
I am not certain if this belongs in RP discussion or FFXIV discussion.
I was wondering if anyone with linguistic knowledge knew of a real language that is similar to Miqo'te naming conventions?
I would love for my character to be able to occasionally spout off words in a traditional language.
It is easier with some of the other races. For example, based on naming conventions, the Elzen seem like their language would be similar to French (correct me if I'm wrong), the Hyur have many European linguistic roots (mostly Northern it seems), I have no clue about the Roegadyns but the Sea Wolves seem to have a language that might be based on a real one and the Lalafell language is based on Dr. Seuss...
It seems like the peoples of Eorzea have a common language for ease of dialogue in the game, but it also seems there are linguistic differences in the traditional languages of the races. I am not even close to being a language expert, so if I am wrong about anything please correct me.
Also, in case anyone didn't get it, the last comment I made about the Lalafell language is a joke
RE: Languages? - Eliane Dufresne - 12-13-2013
You are correct in that there is a "common" language we all speak. It's generally implied that the old racial languages aren't used much anymore, if they're not completely dead altogether, kind of how Latin is in the real world.
Unfortunately I don't know that the Miqo'te language has ever been addressed. They have dev teams actually working on the Roegadyn language (German-based) and the Elezen language (French-based), the latter of which is shared by Midlander Hyur, I think. But as far as I know nobody's working on Miqo'te, Lalafell, or Highlander languages. I think the selective development of the languages depends largely on how much it's needed from a lore perspective. Roegadyn, for example, still use their old language heavily in their culture and embrace it in their names, so I'm guessing the writers decided they needed an actual dictionary.
I'm hesitant to say you're completely out of luck, because I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as the other people here and might have missed something. Maybe they'll develop something for Miqo'te sometime in the future?
RE: Languages? - Ildur - 12-13-2013
There doesn't seem to be any kind of language barrier in Eorzea's societies, I'm afraid. The naming conventions only reflect certain styles of pronunciation and etcetera because that's basically how each race spoke long, long ago. While it's probable that some scholar or knowledge-hoarder would know how to speak ancient Miqo'te (or whatever), it would be like latin in our world: it's not used anywhere. There's only "Eorzean", as far as we know. And Ancient Roegadyn, but that's only used for naming.
Quote:I was wondering if anyone with linguistic knowledge knew of a real language that is similar to Miqo'te naming conventions?
I would say they seem to be based on African words. However, the conventions theirselves seem pretty classic.
Romans traditionally had three names: the name given by the parents, the family name, and a nickname (used to differentiate them from other people with the same two names). Miqo'te females are only missing the nickname. Sunseeker males have only the name and the nickname denoting their social status, dropping the family suffix for no apparent reason more than Author Bias. Interestingly, Moonkeeper males have a nickname in the form of the suffix that can be translated to "the first", "the second", etcetera. So they are the most 'classic' of them all.
So yeah, Ancient Rome as far as conventions go. The tribe prefix on Sunseekers could be considered the "Name from City", which people used when they left their homes.
RE: Languages? - Jomoru - 12-13-2013
I use ancient Greek for Allagan and Nym words while using Latin for Garlean
RE: Languages? - Jana - 12-14-2013
When I looked up Keeper NPC's names, I found that a few of them followed Egyptian conventions, modified a little for the extra "hissing H" sound (I may be remembering a little wrong, but I also think I also saw Turkish surnames). I used an Egyptian surname for my own character.
RE: Languages? - Aysun - 12-14-2013
Eorzea is such a melting pot, so while all the races are implied to have had their own languages at one time, they don't seem to survive any longer outside being used in naming conventions.
(12-14-2013, 12:43 AM)Jana Wrote: When I looked up Keeper NPC's names, I found that a few of them followed Egyptian conventions, modified a little for the extra "hissing H" sound (I may be remembering a little wrong, but I also think I also saw Turkish surnames). I used an Egyptian surname for my own character.
 That'd be pretty cool if you noticed some Turkish names. *cough*
RE: Languages? - Knight Kat - 12-14-2013
Ah well, it was worth asking I suppose.
You'd think that the traditional Miqo'te tribes and clans wouldn't be so quick to assimilate a common Eorzean language as their primary language. Also, Miqo'te names are so different from the common language's words that you'd think they would have to know at least a bit of the old language so that they can continue to give their children traditional names.
Most of Eorzea's people have indeed taken to the city-states, but there are people still isolated. Some Highlanders in Little Ala Mhigo, Duskwights in their hidden underground cities, Miqo'te in their tribes and clans. Unless I'm missing something, it makes sense for these more isolated peoples to have their traditional languages intact.
But its no use for me to argue with something that I can't change. I just wanted my character to seem more traditional by throwing some "foreign" words into RP on occasion. I guess that won't be doable for now.
Ildur and Jana, thanks for the linguistics lessons. Its interesting to know that the Miqo'te naming conventions might be influenced by ancient Roman, Egyptian and maybe Turkish. However, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think I can assume any of those languages would be identical to Miqo'te language? So I can't use them.
RE: Languages? - C'kayah Polaali - 12-14-2013
I've always figured that Miqo'te languages were semitic (like Arabic), given the glottal (apostrophe) and the hard Q (both of which are pretty prevalent in semitic languages). Arabic's pretty distinctive and recognizable, but there are a whole basket full of ancient semitic languages that you can draw from. I like Jana's bit about seeing Egyptian influences in the words. It's pretty easy to find books with bits of the ancient Egyptian language and sprinkle some of those in.
The big caveat, if you want to do that, is that ancient Egyptian didn't write hard vowels, so there's a convention of using the letter E where you'd think a vowel might go. A good way to keep the flavor would be to substitute a different vowel: "Ai wenemen" ("let's eat!") could become "Ai wenoman", for instance.
By the way, where did the Roegadyn/German thing come from? Looking at the names and words, it looks far more gaelic to me.
RE: Languages? - Jomoru - 12-14-2013
(12-14-2013, 04:11 PM)C Wrote: I've always figured that Miqo'te languages were semitic (like Arabic), given the glottal (apostrophe) and the hard Q (both of which are pretty prevalent in semitic languages). Arabic's pretty distinctive and recognizable, but there are a whole basket full of ancient semitic languages that you can draw from. I like Jana's bit about seeing Egyptian influences in the words. It's pretty easy to find books with bits of the ancient Egyptian language and sprinkle some of those in.
The big caveat, if you want to do that, is that ancient Egyptian didn't write hard vowels, so there's a convention of using the letter E where you'd think a vowel might go. A good way to keep the flavor would be to substitute a different vowel: "Ai wenemen" ("let's eat!") could become "Ai wenoman", for instance.
By the way, where did the Roegadyn/German thing come from? Looking at the names and words, it looks far more gaelic to me.
It reminded me of the Bantu languages but my lingustics isn't that great. as for the Roe thing the Developers specifically said that.
RE: Languages? - Sigyn - 12-14-2013
Does seem kind of difficult for miqo'tes. Though I think most are thoroughly homogenized there are exceptions like poachers and what tribes still exist and haven't split up.
It's easier for Roegadyn. There's a whole roegadyn dictionary of words for use.
RE: Languages? - Knight Kat - 12-14-2013
(12-14-2013, 04:11 PM)Ckayah Tia Wrote: I've always figured that Miqo'te languages were semitic (like Arabic), given the glottal (apostrophe) and the hard Q (both of which are pretty prevalent in semitic languages). Arabic's pretty distinctive and recognizable, but there are a whole basket full of ancient semitic languages that you can draw from. I like Jana's bit about seeing Egyptian influences in the words. It's pretty easy to find books with bits of the ancient Egyptian language and sprinkle some of those in.
The big caveat, if you want to do that, is that ancient Egyptian didn't write hard vowels, so there's a convention of using the letter E where you'd think a vowel might go. A good way to keep the flavor would be to substitute a different vowel: "Ai wenemen" ("let's eat!") could become "Ai wenoman", for instance.
By the way, where did the Roegadyn/German thing come from? Looking at the names and words, it looks far more gaelic to me.
YAY! Thank you C'kayah! I have something to go on now. I guess I'm doing some research. Its ok, I like research! I like ancient Egyptian mythology too, so I'm sure this will be fun.
Thanks everyone for your responses.
RE: Languages? - Tla - 12-15-2013
(12-14-2013, 04:11 PM)C Wrote: I've always figured that Miqo'te languages were semitic (like Arabic), given the glottal (apostrophe) and the hard Q (both of which are pretty prevalent in semitic languages). Arabic's pretty distinctive and recognizable, but there are a whole basket full of ancient semitic languages that you can draw from. I like Jana's bit about seeing Egyptian influences in the words. It's pretty easy to find books with bits of the ancient Egyptian language and sprinkle some of those in.Nice input! Someone else as well was telling me, when I created my Keeper, that to take inspiration from arabian names, though at the time I didn't realise it applied also for Seekers. But I think of Sheqa, eh, the sound is there. Or my Sihel Nelhan, I slightly modified it from generator and everytime reminds of the Temple of Abu Simbel.
The big caveat, if you want to do that, is that ancient Egyptian didn't write hard vowels, so there's a convention of using the letter E where you'd think a vowel might go. A good way to keep the flavor would be to substitute a different vowel: "Ai wenemen" ("let's eat!") could become "Ai wenoman", for instance.
By the way, where did the Roegadyn/German thing come from? Looking at the names and words, it looks far more gaelic to me.
As for Roe, I think it's in naming coventions, or anyway should be something devs themselves said But honestly doesn't look gaelic at all too me, too much consonantic and strong, gaelic is really a soft language.
RE: Languages? - John Spiegel - 12-15-2013
I am bagging on ancient Highlanders to have a Gaelic-esque language just for the shear connection of "Highlander" to the Scottish Highlands. I have no proof of this just shear speculation.
What I AM sure of is that Highlander forenames have "Germanic or Normandic roots", so one could argue Danish/Norwegian languages to compliment the naming convention.
RE: Languages? - C'kayah Polaali - 12-15-2013
Yeah, in retrospect, I think Roegadyn names are more of a mix of old english (Bloefhisthota, Ahldskyf, Wyznwilf, Junghsmhid) and Welsh (Mytemyrgan, Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn, Swygynagat). It's funny, I think of different languages every time I see one.Â
RE: Languages? - Aysun - 12-15-2013
(12-14-2013, 03:27 AM)Knight Kat Wrote: Ah well, it was worth asking I suppose.
You'd think that the traditional Miqo'te tribes and clans wouldn't be so quick to assimilate a common Eorzean language as their primary language. Also, Miqo'te names are so different from the common language's words that you'd think they would have to know at least a bit of the old language so that they can continue to give their children traditional names.Â
It's not been quick. Miqo'te have been in Eorzea for quite a long time. They migrated during the 5th Umbral era, between 1500 and 4000 years ago. They're not as primitive as most people like to assume.