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Regarding IC Dragoons. - Printable Version

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Regarding IC Dragoons. - Knight Kat - 02-13-2014

I know this has been talked about already. However, most of the recent discussion has been as sort of a side discussion in the White Mage and Ishgardian threads.

I searched the forums for any threads that -directly- talked about the plausibility of ICly being a Dragoon. I found an old one!

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=4373&highlight=Dragoon

I wanted to show this to the many many new people who have joined the community since then. Many people have expressed interest in being IC Dragoons. And I also have something to add.

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My interpretation:
According to the NPC, Dragoons are elite Ishgard knights. With an IC means to receive the training, I see no reason why someone can't become an IC Dragoon (or at least have the skills of one).

It is the leader of the Dragoons (The Azure Dragoon) who is chosen by the Eye relic. This Azure Dragoon is the only one who has the special powers of a dragon. Thus, being an IC Azure Dragoon is probably a no no.

Now, I have not had a chance to read all the dialogue and lore regarding Dragoons, but what this NPC said seems pretty clear to me.

As for what a "standard" Dragoon would be capable of, I have no idea. That seems rather vague to me. Obviously though, they would not have the same power as the Azure Dragoon.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Ares D'Argent - 02-13-2014

heh they are very similar to Jedi in the sense that they have to be mindful of their emotions or fall to the dark side.  On the topic of the Azure Dragoon, I'm not sure if he has been given more power than any of the other Dragoons.  I always thought that it was just a title and that he was just better skilled than the others.  At least that's the way I was portraying it.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Rook - 02-13-2014

As mentioned above, the Azure Dragoon is the strongest dragoon, but doesn't necessarily receive any special powers.

All the powers you receive during the course of the DRG questline are granted by the soul crystal that Alberic gave to you, implying that the many dragoons that Ishgard is famous for all possess these powers.

The limiting factor on whether or not one can play a dragoon IC is how they learned. Alberic only teaches the Adventurer because the Eye reacts to them. Ishgard is a very isolated and xenophobic place. They all intensely distrust outsiders. If you can think of a reason for your non-Ishgardian character to be taught by an elite knight of the Holy See and given a Soul of the Dragoon (without which training would take years), go for it.

Just keep that aspect in mind.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - TheLastCandle - 02-13-2014

*leans on Kiht companionably with a grin* Yvelont may not be the Azure Dragoon, but he won't steer Kiht wrong.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - TheWizard - 02-14-2014

Here is the dialogue for the first DRG job quest.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Eye_of_the_Dragon/Plot_Details

The most important tidbit from this would be:

Alberic: The Eye is no ordinary relic. It harbors the power of the dragon, which it bestows upon a single chosen soul─the strongest and wisest dragoon.

Alberic: He who is chosen is possessed of the power to fight our mortal foes, the dragons of Dravania, on equal footing, soaring the firmament as if it were an extension of the land. That man is known as the Azure Dragoon.

Alberic: The Azure Dragoon is the light of hope for all Ishgardians, and the paragon of all dragoons.


What this points to is that the Azure Dragoon, and ONLY the Azure Dragoon has the power to uber-jump which is "the power to fight our mortal foes, the dragons of Dravania, on equal footing, soaring the firmament as if it were an extension of the land."

So normal dragoons cannot perform these mid-air feats of combat and are likely elite Ishgardian lance-knights specifically trained to fight dragons and wouldn't receive a Soul Crystal.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Crisiet - 02-14-2014

I believe I posted in the Ishgard thread about this. I'll just say what I said there about my interpretation of it.

A group of Ishgardian knights trained to slay dragons. The Azure Dragoon is the only super-special one.

I don't think powers like the super jumps are available to all dragoons. In the quest-line, the reason you get these powers is because the eye responds to you (because you're super special in the quest-lines, lol). The soul crystal you receive is one that belonged to Alberic, the former Azure Dragoon and the powers are granted to the Azure Dragoon in order to let them fight the dragons on the same ground, so to speak. That is not to say however that the regular Dragoons aren't powerful or skilled fighters, they're just not magically enhanced.

So with IC access to training it's entirely possible to become a dragoon, but you'll only be super-powered if the eye has 'chosen' you. 

IC I've chosen to ignore jump abilities and anything else that looks obviously magically enhanced. Everything else is either suitable or only requires a teeny tiny amount of suspension of disbelief. That's just how I choose to go about it though!

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Sounsyy - 02-14-2014

Dragoons in XIV lore are basically dragon slayers. For an Ishgardian Knight to become a Dragoon, that Knight has to slay a dragonkin and prove the kill to the Holy See. So "Dragoon" is just an honorary title. You don't have to wield a lance or have special jumpy powers. If you want to find out a little more about regular dragoon lore, go talk to some of the NPCs out in Whitebrim. There's one npc in particular who gives you a quest asking you to find the dragon he claims he slew and bring back a bone to prove it to the Holy See so he can become a Dragoon. 

The Azure Dragoon is something completely different though. Seemingly once a generation the prized Eye of Nidhogg chooses an individual who is destined to "slay Nidhogg." However, this is not a blessing as it is a curse. The Eye of Nidhogg exerts all of its corruptive force over the individual and attempts to sway them into becoming the Dragon's servant. Which is why Dragoon's wear the Drachen Mail. The armor helps protect them from the influences of the Eye. There is most definitely a connection formed between Azure Dragoon and Nidhogg, but what exactly that connection entails is not entirely clear.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - TheWizard - 02-14-2014

(02-14-2014, 01:39 AM)Crisiet Wrote: I believe I posted in the Ishgard thread about this. I'll just say what I said there about my interpretation of it.

A group of Ishgardian knights trained to slay dragons. The Azure Dragoon is the only super-special one.

I don't think powers like the super jumps are available to all dragoons. In the quest-line, the reason you get these powers is because the eye responds to you (because you're super special in the quest-lines, lol). The soul crystal you receive is one that belonged to Alberic, the former Azure Dragoon and the powers are granted to the Azure Dragoon in order to let them fight the dragons on the same ground, so to speak. That is not to say however that the regular Dragoons aren't powerful or skilled fighters, they're just not magically enhanced.

So with IC access to training it's entirely possible to become a dragoon, but you'll only be super-powered if the eye has 'chosen' you. 

IC I've chosen to ignore jump abilities and anything else that looks obviously magically enhanced. Everything else is either suitable or only requires a teeny tiny amount of suspension of disbelief. That's just how I choose to go about it though!

That's essentially what I said. Makes being a 'normal' dragoon much for feasible.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Ildur - 02-14-2014

Squee's lore is completely at odds with their own mechanics, as usual.

But anyway, I explain (common) dragoons uber-jumping powers the same way I explain why a pugilist can hit a magitek golem with his fists and win: aether (or chakra, if you are technical about monks). Basically, all skills beyond the auto-attack are magically enhaced attacks. That's why they are so flashy. A man with a small sword fighting a rock golem isn't just attacking with a tiny blade: he's using aether to improve it. In a way, this implies all weapons are magical foci, but some are better than others depending on their purpose. This also explains why cross-class skills exist (thought there's the old "gameplay balance" to take into account for that).
So I see no reason why an IC dragoon couldn't use their jumps ICly. It's just aether and maybe carefully constructed boots or armor to allow the aether to flow correctly into a jump and not kill the wearer when they come back to the ground. The Azure Dragoon can jump much, much higher (and maybe faster). But since he is not any particular PC as far as the roleplaying community is concerned, we don't really have to worry about it. This is more fun and interesting than Squee's LOL u r speshiul! plot that contradicts its own game mechanics, anyway.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Lost River - 02-14-2014

Aether manipulation, Chakra and such makes it suitable. Just no one is the Azure Dragoon; but you can all be jumpy sorts of Dragoons; I see why not. As for the Azure Dragoon questline; for some reason, this game comes to mind; Why couldn't they have wings too?


As for such, I wouldn't say it more of a focus mastery; but mastery of the self. Dedication, natural aptitude (in spellcasters), or a mixture of both. So in such, those who are adventures and such (the PCs), their aptitude to manipulate aether is stronger.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HywjFOUWXdI


Better link for more awesome musics.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Knight Kat - 02-14-2014

Most of you have made some great points!
Loving all the input thus far.

Aaaaaaand Lost River has got me thinking about music now....

So here are the songs I think of when I think about Dragoons.






RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Ares D'Argent - 02-14-2014

(02-14-2014, 04:35 AM)Ildur Wrote: Squee's lore is completely at odds with their own mechanics, as usual.

But anyway, I explain (common) dragoons uber-jumping powers the same way I explain why a pugilist can hit a magitek golem with his fists and win: aether (or chakra, if you are technical about monks). Basically, all skills beyond the auto-attack are magically enhaced attacks. That's why they are so flashy. A man with a small sword fighting a rock golem isn't just attacking with a tiny blade: he's using aether to improve it. In a way, this implies all weapons are magical foci, but some are better than others depending on their purpose. This also explains why cross-class skills exist (thought there's the old "gameplay balance" to take into account for that).
So I see no reason why an IC dragoon couldn't use their jumps ICly. It's just aether and maybe carefully constructed boots or armor to allow the aether to flow correctly into a jump and not kill the wearer when they come back to the ground. The Azure Dragoon can jump much, much higher (and maybe faster). But since he is not any particular PC as far as the roleplaying community is concerned, we don't really have to worry about it. This is more fun and interesting than Squee's LOL u r speshiul! plot that contradicts its own game mechanics, anyway.

I totally agree with you Ildur.  Squenix really shit the bed on the lore for the classes in this game.  That lore may have worked for a single player game, which would be ok, but they totally messed up with the fact that there are going to be many dragoons as opposed to one.  In all honesty I can't see myself RPing a dragoon without being able to use the powers they come with, that's like playing a Black Mage who can't cast offensive spells, a Summoner who cannot summon or a White Mage who can't heal.  In my opinion that's just plain stupid.  I for one am definitely taking your suggestion on this.  I have it that my Artorias draws power from a dragon, but it's not Nidhogg.

Whoever wrote lore on the classes should be slapped upside the head and fired Tongue

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Aurelie Eleveur - 02-14-2014

I agree with Artorias in this matter. ICly, my character can perform the standard Jump, Elusive Jump, and Spineshatter Dive moves. Dragonfire Dive, the ultimate jump, I believe is an Azure only move (though I will use it OOCly!!). Although, Kiana is able to pull these moves off due to years and years of training and honing herself. Is it completely natural? No. Normal people can't pull those off. Butt his is a world of magic, where aether flows, and aether can enhance (yes, mental justification for dragoons having an MP pool when we do not cast spells at all).

I've never been keen on the idea of everyone having a small gem that grants these powers. Makes it all feel cheap and Caracker Jack box-like.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - FreelanceWizard - 02-14-2014

(02-14-2014, 11:39 AM)Ami Wrote: I've never been keen on the idea of everyone having a small gem that grants these powers. Makes it all feel cheap and Caracker Jack box-like.

It's a little tangential, but personally, I've never treated the Soul Stones for any Job as an IC thing for PCs (sure, some NPC might hold one and be the Job Of Legend, but it's not my character). As "things only one person can have," I feel they fall into the category of story elements RPers are able to and should make generic or ignore -- just like how you get your airship pass or magitek armor in the MSQ.

RE: Regarding IC Dragoons. - Lost River - 02-14-2014

So the general consensus for me is, aside from the Azure Dragoon, you can be a Dragoon, use those abilities and such due to aether manipulation. As for White Mages, the NPC(PC) hero of the story was the first and they are now teaching white healing en masse to those capable and understanding of its power due to the new need of it.

Its an age of conflict after a previous devastation, so the whole limitation of White Mages is silly and I treat the plotline as "first of many", as for Dragoon, as its an one item that makes you it; you cannot be the leader, BUUUUUUT you can still be a Dragoon with all the jumpy powers you can handle.