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+--- Thread: Personal Information Leaks (/showthread.php?tid=7681)
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Personal Information Leaks - Ashren Dotharl - 07-16-2014
So I'm not usually the type of person to worry about this sort of thing, and this is in no way trying to stir up any sort of drama or spark a witch hunt. I'm merely concerned for my own privacy, and the privacy of others that are part of this community and I felt it was necessary to bring this to peoples attention in hopes of getting some kind of official response from the staff to put any fears to rest.
While I'm not entirely active on the forums these days, I do still lurk about and keep track of what is going on in the RP community. I also follow a lot of RPer blogs just out of curiosity when I find people who have interesting characters or the various people who run FCs, I enjoy keeping tabs on the RP politics and what not, especially since my character is/was an information broker.
So you can imagine my surprise when I came across a post on a blog that was essentially someone airing out their dirty laundry because of recent events that happened in their FC and they mention that a member of the RPC Staff gave them another members personal information (in this case their IP Address). While I'm not here to tell you how to run this site, isn't that a bit unethical? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the purpose of being able to see a persons IP only intended to be used in case of needing to take disciplinary actions and the like? This information shouldn't be given away to anyone who isn't a member of the staff and using it outside of this site seems like a blatant abuse of power.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the person who made the blog post is full of it, but I feel a little upset knowing that if the right person asked someone might give away any information linked to my account such as my email, where I live, my IP address, or my password. Hopefully this is all just a misunderstanding but I for one would like some assurance that the staff aren't giving out our information to their friends or anyone else for that matter.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - McBeefâ„¢ - 07-16-2014
People can say whatever they want, but given my experience with the admin team of this site that story sounds highly unlikely. I've never known them to be anything but respectful of the members, and giving out private information seems to contradict that.
So it's quite possible the story is untrue, and they probably did it to just stir up more drama.
On a side note your IP address isn't like your street address or something, it changes based on the lease lengths of your ISP, and in this modern day means very little since most users probably access the site from multiple devices and networks (school, home, work, mobile) that it's not a very useful thing. Still, I doubt it happened either way.
Second edit: On passwords, it's very rare they'd be stored in plain text either way. They are almost always stored in hashed form (sort of an encrypted version), the details are complicated, but generally administrators of sites only have access to this hashed form. Hashed passwords can, with enough time and the proper tools be used to find the plaintext password, it's not as easy as looking at a spreadsheet and seeing that your password is 'belieber69'. So yeah this story seems fishy from a number of angles.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - Ashren Dotharl - 07-16-2014
The person making the claims are a respected member of the community, though I won't list names for the sake of not turning this into a witch hunt or causing other issues. The only reason I bring that part up is because it makes it unlikely that someone who is an active member of this community would slander it (especially when the mention of receiving said information was made offhandedly). It wasn't even the focus of their post, they merely mentioned that they were given someone's IP address by a member of the staff and that part concerned me.
If it isn't true, then good. If it is however I would like to know what the staff believes is a justifiable reason for giving any information to an outside party? I understand that offering someones IP means very little, but it's still personal information and it's a small step away from giving out stuff like emails or what have you.
Ultimately it's the principle of the matter for me. This information is intended for in house use only and shouldn't be given to or used by any member that is not staff, and using it for the purposes of the RPC. Giving someone your IP address for their own personal reasons does not seem justifiable as is the case being mentioned.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - LiadansWhisper - 07-16-2014
Kinda turns it into a witch hunt when you make accusations against the staff of the boards, but won't say who is doing the accusing.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - Ashren Dotharl - 07-16-2014
(07-16-2014, 04:59 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Kinda turns it into a witch hunt when you make accusations against the staff of the boards, but won't say who is doing the accusing.I didn't name any specific staff member either though. I'm pretty certain that personal information was given out, that much is not in question since the person who said it had no reason to lie about that part, my real concern is what is considerable a justifiable reason to give out that information. If I piss off the wrong person will my email be given out?
I'm not attempting to attack the site or its admin, but perhaps it's an issue that needs to be looked into for all our sakes if it's so easy to gain access just by asking and being friends with the right person.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - Gaspard - 07-16-2014
I'll take a more harsh stance here; If all this fuss is over an IP alone, I suggest you unplug your internet right now, and your friend aswell. That you can be tracked back on the internet should be one of your least worries when it comes to privacy and the internet.
Moreso, Side-Operators can see your IP simply by the fact that you connect to it. What they do with this information is up to them, and there's no 'ethic' grounds to it. There's a good reason the internet operates the way it does. Anonymity is a 'Myth' when it comes to the internet.
If you want to hide your personal information, get used to using proxies and the likes. Otherwise, improbable. The moment someone gets your current IP, he can track 'everything'. Your Provider, your address, your home, and thanks to google earth, even a picture of your location + house. Anonymity, is, a myth. Also, I learned early in my time as online person that trust is missplaced when it comes to the internet. Never use an E-mail you need in your Real life/Professional Life. Use a 'hobby-one' instead.
On another note: Not mentioning specific members of the Staff doesn't make it better. That way the Administration itself will be cast under a suspicious light, not only the accused. Moreso, I would suggest you take it to PM's next time, and address people privately, and only if denied a proper talk there, 'then' you resort to making such things public. This is in itself damaging If there's not a conclusive 'No we didn't do it' statement. And all you're perpetuating through it is a negative image of said on-sight leadership,.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - Ashren Dotharl - 07-16-2014
(07-16-2014, 06:17 AM)Gaspard Wrote: The moment someone gets your current IP, he can track 'everything'. Your Provider, your address, your home, and thanks to google earth, even a picture of your location + house.This is only further demonstrating my point of why having this kind of information being handed out for no good reason is bad. I didn't specifically list any admin however because the person who posted the blog didn't. The person in question merely states that they asked an admin on this site about an IP address and was given it. The context of the situation is that they were asking for the IP address after having a fight with my friend, which to mean sounds like it could only be for malicious purposes and my primary concern here is that this person is going to attempt to do -something- with this information, otherwise I can't see a reason for requesting it.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - Sophia_Grave - 07-16-2014
This was probably something best discussed privately with the site admin, as only that person can give you the absolute answer you're looking for. Anyway, I know what issues you're referring to and that also struck me as odd, but taking a step back, it wholly depends on how it was handled. The person in question could simply have asked the admin here to perform a check to verify their existing concerns. In this case, no personal information is actually given; its simply a yes or no. On the other hand, it could play out exactly as you fear, which could be a problem I suppose, but going off my own experiences, I've had no cause to worry about that kind of thing. Plus, virtually anyone can get at your IP with frighteningly little work.
Its also worth noting for the reader who doesn't know the situation that there's a good deal of personal harassment and possible stalker-ish behavior involved. Its not merely a case of 'you made this person angry, your information is now up in the air'.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - LiadansWhisper - 07-16-2014
(07-16-2014, 07:19 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote:(07-16-2014, 06:17 AM)Gaspard Wrote: The moment someone gets your current IP, he can track 'everything'. Your Provider, your address, your home, and thanks to google earth, even a picture of your location + house.This is only further demonstrating my point of why having this kind of information being handed out for no good reason is bad. I didn't specifically list any admin however because the person who posted the blog didn't. The person in question merely states that they asked an admin on this site about an IP address and was given it. The context of the situation is that they were asking for the IP address after having a fight with my friend, which to mean sounds like it could only be for malicious purposes and my primary concern here is that this person is going to attempt to do -something- with this information, otherwise I can't see a reason for requesting it.
Instead of posting a thread here and making public accusations that come from an anonymous source (for which you have no proof that they are even correct in what they told you), you really should write Freelance Wizard privately and ask.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - FreelanceWizard - 07-16-2014
<magicAdminHat>
While I'd really prefer people raise issues like this privately, since this is being brought up publicly, I'll go ahead and respond.
I was asked by an FC leader if I could verify the IP address of a user on their site that they suspected was a sockpuppet of someone with whom they had disciplinary issues in their FC. The FC leader gave me a list of last known IP addresses for the alleged sockpuppet account on their site and the forum name here of the user who'd caused the issues, and I provided a simple "yes, this matches" response, along with some other information regarding the ISPs of the IP address history that the FC leader provided me that struck me as odd. This "other information" is something anyone can get from dnsstuff.com, among other sources, using the IP address. It didn't come from the RPC site database.
At no time did I hand out the IP address history of the person I was asked about. I was given a list of IP addresses from the FC's site and a forum name to check them against, and I provided a yes/no verification. There's no random handing out of personal information; there was a question about whether an account was a sockpuppet based on an IP address match being raised as part of a disciplinary investigation, and I provided verification. That's all.
If you'd like a more direct policy statement, my stance is that, other than as required by US law, the only private information that I may provide is IP address matching (a yes/no answer only) to FC leaders if they provide me with both the forum name and the IP address to match, and only in the context of a reasonable disciplinary concern that's articulated to me.
EDIT: By the way, this has happened a total of one (yes, 1) time in the entire time I've been admin of the site. This isn't a regular occurrence, nor should it be.
</magicAdminHat>
RE: Personal Information Leaks - Faye - 07-16-2014
Sophia and Freelance pretty much summed everything up. And really, being vague and keeping people's names anonymous doesn't make the situation any better, it just leads to more speculation and assumptions which is the exact opposite of what we need here.
As the person in question who aired this "dirty laundry" (i.e. posted an update on my Tumblr warning people about someone who had created fake profiles to pretend to be different people and stalked and harassed members of my FC) I really don't know why you didn't just speak to me about it if you wanted some answers. As Freelance said, he didn't give me any personal information. I explained the situation, sent him a list of IP addresses and asked if a specific user was using these IP's so that I might ban them from my website and ensure they stop causing trouble in my FC and cease making my friends uncomfortable. He said yes. That was the extent of the "personal information" that was leaked; a confirmation of something I already suspected but wanted to doublecheck before I started swinging the banhammer.
To rehash what some others have said, I don't know why you didn't message an Admin privately rather than stirring up some panic over something that didn't even turn out to be an issue, and IP addresses (that I gathered on my own, at any rate, and wasn't provided from the RPC) don't really reveal much, if any, information about your or your location. I've been on websites that even list your current IP address on your public profile. It's not really sensitive information, unless you have something to hide.
An additional edit: My initial post on my personal blog that seems to have sparked all this nonsense was a heads up about someone in the community who was harassing my FC and exhibiting stalker-like behavior, as they seemed to target us at random and could easily pick someone else at random now that we have them entirely blocked and removed. My post did not include anything about the RPC or its admins giving away anyone's IP addresses, as that never happened, nor was it in any way shaming the RPC. I'm quite thankful for Freelance's assistance in the matter and I'm sorry this came back to cause issue because someone took the matter out of context.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - ArmachiA - 07-16-2014
ohhh Faye, as an aside, whats your tumblr?
I need more FFXIV tumblr's in my life
RE: Personal Information Leaks - kitakaze - 07-16-2014
Alrighty, I have to just jump in here for one second as someone who works for an ISP. If I want to get your IP address, I can do it in about... five seconds. From my home PC, with no special access rights.
If you're that concerned about such things, here's an insider tip. Unplug your modem for 30 seconds (the power cord), then plug it back in.Â
That's it.Â
IP should have been reassigned. If not, give it a full minute.Â
If you still don't feel safe, then take Gaspard's advice and stop using the internet altogether.
Good day.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - Val - 07-16-2014
Yeah, pretty much everything everyone said here. If you're worried about your IP address being leaked, you're better off just not getting online at all. It's not exactly a hard thing to come by.
And as Faye has already mentioned, nowhere in the actual post did it say that Freelance gave her the IP address. It was merely a confirmation that, yes, this is two accounts using the same IP address and harassing both you and your FC members with them. Therefore, proper action was taken.
RE: Personal Information Leaks - Faye - 07-16-2014
And I've been informed, Ashren, that you've role-played with the person in the question and all a few times and therefore may feel compelled to take her side and come to her defense, but this isn't a matter of personal feelings or dirty laundry (I was actually quite fond of her until her antics became apparent) as you wish to portray it, but rather of someone harassing/stalking/lying to members of my FC enough that the majority of the FC began to feel uncomfortable or annoyed.