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Valence · **01-14-2017, 04:00 PM**

There is a huge difference between a tomato pie and a pizza to my eyes though.

(01-14-2017, 02:43 PM)Kilieit Wrote:

XIV is loosely based on 15th - 17th century cultures, plus any "anachronistic" technical advances made possible with magic and magitek (such as the early propagation of things which, in the real world, stayed on their original continents for much longer - for instance, I'm going to say coffee is likely to have been invented somewhere along the Thavnairian archipelago, which we know Eorzea has active and open trade routes with).

Most of these foods were either invented thousands of years before then, or were invented during the time period XIV is based upon.

Just because they've become modern conveniences doesn't mean they were invented in modern times.

That's not what I'm saying though, I'm aware of coffee's age...

I'm pointing out that the way you are gonna depict a real life import in the game will totally decide if it's rubbish or brilliant. RL rip offs are very hard and finicky things to do right. Especially when they are still used as modern conveniences in a modern culture.

If you don't translate them back in their historical context, they remain used as a modern RL culture, but in Eorzea. And it doesn't ring true at all. I don't think I'm being wrong in assuming that coffee - as a coffee ignorant person overall - wasn't exactly consumed the same back in the time it appeared in the Middle East, and that the culture of coffee back then, was anything even remotely close.

Historical flavor, yes. Not a problem of timeline.

Mae · **01-14-2017, 04:49 PM**

(01-14-2017, 05:28 AM)Valence Wrote: I think some people might have had more of a problem with the 'historical flavor' rather than the technological issues, but... Honestly, it's a matter of tastes. It's Eorzea, still. It seems to mix stuff from all RL - and less RL - eras so... Having icecream made with ice crystal shards? At the Costa Del Sol? Sounds pretty mild to me.

It's also threading a lot on something that can be cringe worthy for many people, also. The game lore always takes great care into transforming their RL inspirations into the setting and into proper Eorzean styled foods, stuff, etc. Even when it's a blatant ripoff where they have the laziest writing, like for seasonal events (Heavensturn, Starlight, etc... well at least they changed the names to give them meaning in the setting).

It's always a matter of how far you are willing to go into... what I would call an uncanny valley where contemporary RL stuff blends so much with the ffxiv setting that it starts to just break every kind of suspension of disbelief possible. When you start to see people taking their coffee to wake up at morning, take another one before going to work in their eorzean cubicles after a ride in some kind of bus towed by chocobos... Only to take their lunchbreak at the local fastfood when they have burgers and french fries and icecream and whatnot...

Mh, I might be wrong but it doesn't seem to me that a lot of foods in the lore are contemporary food. Most of them seem to be classic cuisine or old cuisine as far as I can tell? Or just made up stuff.

I was just pointing out that there's technically not much for food, even modern food, that can be called off-limits for either technique or ingredient requirements. I'm certainly not advocating someone starting up a McEorzea chain, but if Kara was sitting at a campfire with someone and they offered her chopped meat scraps that were pressed together into a disk shape before being grilled and then placed between a couple hunks of bread because there were no plates, I don't think it's even lore-bending enough to raise questions.Â

(01-14-2017, 08:58 AM)Charity322 Wrote: You can put cheese on popcorn?

Yep. You can put all sorts of things on popcorn. I know people who like to sprinkle powdered ranch dressing mix onto theirs. And Ovaltine. Also someone who, instead of butter, uses bacon grease.

Me? I liked mine just air-popped plain. Back before I had a three-month period where Dollar Tree boxes of microwave popcorn were all I could afford to buy to cover my lunches. Now, I can't even stand the smell of popcorn.

Sounsyy · **01-14-2017, 05:51 PM**

(01-14-2017, 04:00 PM)Valence Wrote: There is a huge difference between a tomato pie and a pizza to my eyes though.

Well, they're not exactly the same thing as a modern-day pizza from your local pizza joint obviously, but there is some historical precedence for the two terms being synonymous. Potentially one of many reasons "pizza pie" is a thing? IDK honestly, but this was an interesting find when I was researching tomato pies earlier:

[Image: W8UXt.png]

Source: New-York tribune., Dec. 1903

Honestly if you slap tomatoes and cheese on a flat, baked piece of bread I'm gonna call it a pizza until someone corrects me.

NOW I'M HUNGRY. /orders a tomato pie from dominos. /gets really strange looks.

Mae · **01-14-2017, 06:49 PM**

The definition of "tomato pie" changes from area to area. In my part of New England, it's typically something you can only find in Greek pizzerias and it's literally a Greek-style pizza with a layer of tomatoes under and on top of the cheese. You order a "pizza with tomatoes" from these same places, and it's only a layer of tomatoes on top of the cheese... something I learned the hard way when I first got out on my own.

Imagine my shock when I started traveling and got different things whenever I ordered one. Philadelphia, I got presented with what looked like to me to be a Sicilian-style pizza that had a sprinkling of Parmesan cheese instead of mozzarella on top. Chicago, my experience was that it meant getting a different, vastly chunkier sauce on their deep-dish pizzas. Somewhere in the Midwest, I think Illinois, I got introduced to the (in my opinion) monstrosity that is a pie crust that has a mayonnaise-cream cheese-cheddar cheese "filling" topped with tomatoes, and that is closer in appearance/construction to what we'd call a tart back home.

I also sort of learned that Greek-style pizza is not very popular outside of New England. To which I was both pleased and annoyed -- I typically don't like it, but when I get that rare craving for it, I crave it -hard-.

Anyways.

The game's icon looks like a tart to me, but the ingredients hint more towards a pizza-style to me. I can even justify the "pie crust" as a pizza thing -- some of the Greek pizzerias where I'm from, you have a choice of crusts: regular and "pie crust". The "pie crusts" are thinner, don't puff up as much, and are cooked in different pans with less oil so the bottom doesn't blister and fry. So until SE starts slapping some sort of mayonnaise into the recipe, I'm perfectly fine with people going with the idea that the tomato pie is more of a pizza thing.

Solenne · **01-14-2017, 09:20 PM**

(01-14-2017, 12:36 AM)Mae Wrote: I take a similar approach to how a specific food is made -- if the technology to cook it exists/would be feasible to make in the game's setting, it's fair game. I had a similar argument (with the same person I did with the coffee, actually) over ice cream. They said it wasn't possible without freezers, but all you need to make it is milk, cream, sugar, two seal-able jars of different sizes, ice and rock salt or ice shards, and about twenty minutes.

The history of ice cream predates the freezer by... well, a whole lot. It's said that Marco Polo actually brought over a recipe for something resembling sherbet to Italy from China. That recipe is thought to have evolved into ice cream sometime in the 16th Century. So it sounds like that person doesn't know their history at all and should be ignored. If it's plausible for a food item (or any item, really) to exist in Eorzea, I have no problem with people RPing it.

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Popcorn in Eorzea?

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