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LiadansWhisper · **09-22-2014, 04:35 PM**

(09-22-2014, 04:09 PM)Clover Wrote: We'll have to agree to disagree here, as I still don't think Yoshida has lied, and neither do I think that the current house system is bad.

Well, unless "lie" means something other than "tell a falsehood" in your native language, he did, in fact, lie to the playerbase, and in a quotable fashion. Â It isn't a question of whether or not you want to believe it. Â That's exactly what he did.

Kage · **09-22-2014, 04:40 PM**

It's a bad way to deal with these things but honestly I've just learned not to expect much so that what I do get I can enjoy if I actually like the game enough.

If I had those expectations I'd be utterly crushed that Type-0 is never on Vita and is instead on PS4/XBOX One. Final Fantasy XV has been a working title for so many years but only after they announced that Nomura isn't the director... did people find out that he's not been the director for awhile and it's really only been the change of director that has led to any real progress towards the game's progress.

Gaming companies as a whole just tend to disappoint if I raise my hopes up. I like the game and the community too much to get myself hyped for things that were talked about almost a year ago. Too much shit can change (and in this case has).

They can rightfully get chewed out for the fact that maybe, maybe, 10% of people and/or FCs can even get a house come 2.4. Even with going to 12 or 16 wards in total you're getting no where near the amount needed for populous servers such as Balmung or Gilgamesh.

(09-22-2014, 04:35 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(09-22-2014, 04:09 PM)Clover Wrote: We'll have to agree to disagree here, as I still don't think Yoshida has lied, and neither do I think that the current house system is bad.

Well, unless "lie" means something other than "tell a falsehood" in your native language, he did, in fact, lie to the playerbase, and in a quotable fashion. It isn't a question of whether or not you want to believe it. That's exactly what he did.

It can very well be argued that what he said in DECEMBER 2013, was in fact true. But things have changed with how much gil people accrue since then. They've changed where and how much gil drops or are handed out.

edit: Also, since I was never anywhere close to accruing the gil required to even be helpful to getting an FC house I might be wrong but, I could swear that FC houses starting small plot costs were more than the 5mil required by the very nicest small plots. The cost of each plot goes down at a much faster rate than in December. It now lowers every -6- hours.

FreelanceWizard · **09-22-2014, 04:57 PM**

For me, playing CoX for a while got me used to devs overpromising and underdelivering (bases), screwing up just enough of a system to make it suck (just about every balance change), or outright lying ("we'll never have PvP/loot/etc."). Angry

I always keep my expectations extremely low so I can never be terribly disappointed.

The whole limited wards thing is the part that really bothers me, though. For me, the fact that people can get to the point where they've fulfilled the gil requirement and still get shafted on having a house is extremely annoying. That's just exclusivity atop exclusivity for no good reason, IMO. Is some finance guy behind all of this? Is someone at SE still saying, "Geez, this game could implode into a massive quagmire at any moment, so let's not spend any money on infrastructure until we absolutely have to?" Why don't we have like... 80 wards just to start? Why isn't EC2 or Azure being used to spin up new wards on demand (as soon as one fills up, one pops within X hours) that can be live migrated back to the proper datacenter? The whole thing boggles the mind.

Kage · **09-22-2014, 05:03 PM**

Honestly I wouldn't doubt that it's a relic from having to use 1.0's coding, if that's truly what it is.

They can't even work around selling more than 9 fantasias to an account still lol. :/

Warren Castille · **09-22-2014, 05:15 PM**

(09-22-2014, 04:40 PM)Kage Wrote: It can very well be argued that what he said in DECEMBER 2013, was in fact true. But things have changed with how much gil people accrue since then. They've changed where and how much gil drops or are handed out.

Don't bother with this point. Like when I made it, it'll just get ignored in favor of stirring up more shit yet still paying for and playing the game.

Verad · **09-22-2014, 05:20 PM**

(09-22-2014, 04:34 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Well, they've spent quite a lot of that. Â Let's see how "okay" you are with things the next time the devs outright lie without explanation. Â Because I can guarantee you it's gonna happen again.

The answer is "very."

LiadansWhisper · **09-22-2014, 05:23 PM**

(09-22-2014, 04:40 PM)Kage Wrote: It can very well be argued that what he said in DECEMBER 2013, was in fact true. But things have changed with how much gil people accrue since then. They've changed where and how much gil drops or are handed out.

It's still a lie when you tell someone something, never, ever update it, and then give them something entirely different without explanation or warning. Â You can play it as nice as you want, Kage, it's still a lie. Â What he told the playerbase is not what he actually did, and he never bothered to update or clarify that original statement until after the fact (and even then, it's so obviously backpedaling that it's hilarious).

Quote:edit: Also, since I was never anywhere close to accruing the gil required to even be helpful to getting an FC house I might be wrong but, I could swear that FC houses starting small plot costs were more than the 5mil required by the very nicest small plots. The cost of each plot goes down at a much faster rate than in December. It now lowers every -6- hours.

Others have pointed this out, but I'm going to try this one more time: No one cares about the prices. Â Does it matter a whit if the prices are lower if no one can actually get the houses because there's no room and wasn't any room 20 minutes after the servers came up? Â I mean...really?

LiadansWhisper · **09-22-2014, 05:23 PM**

(09-22-2014, 05:15 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(09-22-2014, 04:40 PM)Kage Wrote: It can very well be argued that what he said in DECEMBER 2013, was in fact true. But things have changed with how much gil people accrue since then. They've changed where and how much gil drops or are handed out.

Don't bother with this point. Like when I made it, it'll just get ignored in favor of stirring up more shit yet still paying for and playing the game.

LOL okay.

Melkire · **09-22-2014, 05:39 PM**

(09-22-2014, 05:23 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Does it matter a whit if the prices are lower if no one can actually get the houses because there's no room and wasn't any room 20 minutes after the servers came up? Â I mean...really?

This.

Most of the legitimate complaints I've heard, seen, or read over the latter half of this past week boil down to, "there weren't enough plots added for there to be housing available for purchaseÂ after an hour."

Balmung was supposedly sold out of smallÂ plotsÂ a mere 14 minutesÂ after the patch went live and servers came back up. That's absurd. Put aside that personal housing turned out to be the same system as FC housing, put aside that individuals are now competing with FCs for housing, put aside whatever Yoshi supposedly promised before radio silence from Square Enix... those who'd worked their rear ends off to be able toÂ afford small housesÂ should at least have a fair chance at acquiring them, and that ought to mean a larger window than a mere hour or less.

The current system by which FC and personal houses are purchased is, to be honest, inadequate. It favors those with no commitments, high-speed connections, and high-end computers who can be available as soon as as the patches go live and who can phase in and out of zones fast enough to travel an in-game distance sooner than others.

I care little for personal housing - my FC was lucky enough to snag a house back in... 2.3, I think it was?... we're small enough that our members can take turns with gardening, and we all have access to chocobo stables, and we helped each other purchase our personal rooms. That said, the above is the one failing point in Square's implementation of housing acquisition, IMO, and I feel for those who've voiced their grievances. "We had the gil, but we weren't able to be there when patch went live." "We had the gil, but we took too long to phase in."

I sincerely doubt that the small plots from the new wards coming with 2.4 will be available longer than a day at most. It'd be optimistic to hope for more than a few hours. Anyone who's not able to be online, patch quickly, and phase quickly as soon as the patch drops will get screwed again.

Aldotsk · **09-22-2014, 06:26 PM**

(09-22-2014, 04:34 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I will say this much - YoshiP and staff had a huge amount of trust and affection from their playerbase, so much so that people like you are totally cool with being lied to because you just want the game to work so damn bad.

Well, they've spent quite a lot of that. Â Let's see how "okay" you are with things the next time the devs outright lie without explanation. Â Because I can guarantee you it's gonna happen again.

*sighs* I really really don't like it when someone is actually making this into personal and start insulting others to a point that this thread will be closed ... AGAIN. (at least 6 threads regarding housing has been closed due to your constant attacks and complaints)

I don't know what your problem is. Really. I am so fed up with you trying to insult me from the first housing discussions when I clearly said it is fair for FC to gain their house over personal house because all MMO games require guilds to be priority over single player because that is how you make a community and enjoy games with friends.Â

The game has not lied to me. The interface, combat system, and beginner friendly system has been ALL implemented to 2.0 as Yoshida promised. New class has been promised. It's not Musketeer, but Ninja is cool too. New dungeons always come up every new patch when some new patches in other MMORPG don't give you new dungeons until the NEW expansion. There's not even new story really or events that happen every month or seasonally. The housing appeared with ridiculous prices and personal rooms in the FC house appeared. It wasn't a lie, they all came out as promised. This patch released personal housing as promised. Just not enough for people to buy the plots.Â

There will be lies, but I've not seen Yoshi-P and FF14 devs actually lie as much as other gaming dev team did. They have done their best to this point to keep their fans be satisfied. All I said was "wait and hope that it'll change", and all I've also said was "he isn't completely wrong and he's trying his best". But instead, I get an insult and uncivilized talk toward me. Really?Â

You are a veteran player of FF14 and RPC, and you should be at least have the ideal of being friendly and tell members to calm down and be patient - but instead you make weird assumptions that the prices were going to be down, and you are slamming down on people who are trying to tell others to just be patient?Â

"people like you" is very far stretched, and the game isn't going bad. These are the main reasons I wanted to play FF14 before this housing idea came up:

I liked FF14 concepts and lores and the graphics. I played 1.0 but the reason I quit was I really hated losing XP and LVL like FF11 and it felt too similar to me and the limit on amount of hours I can play to gain lvl seemed silly.
I like the combat system, dungeons, FATE, and the raids that they have given to me. It's challenging, and yet fun. (I havent done dungeons in a while because of RP, but yes - that is the MAIN reason I do like this game.)
Class systems are very open than any other games. I like it. End of story.
Roleplaying with people were the main reason I like the game. Like whole events kept me enjoying all the time.Â

Housing was my least concern because I knew myself that I had to earn money for myself since no one in my FC besides my friends in Gilgamesh wanted to save. We all ripped people off by selling philo items for 50-60k everyday doing endless dungeons to farm for the stones and then we gathered enough, and when they quit they gave me all of their Gils and I went to Balmung (They only quit because they wanted to play other games. I dont know when they will return). but as for myself, I did the same thing in Balmung selling it for ridiculously expensive and still earned a lot and then joined in Titan HM teams to earn gils that way. Then I started selling more items and did hunts as Ellaria.Â

Aside from the point, I avoided a lot of RP during those times and did endless farmings and I got here now. That's not the reason I came here to talk in the thread. I came to this thread that it's not the end for them to close the book and conclude that they won't listen or lie to us. Who knows if they lie or not? They haven't really shown 2.4 yet, so why judge now?Â

But seriously, please do not include me as "people like you", because I surely don't want this game to go bad but I don't want to expect that housing is the only reason I play this game because I feel like I paid 79.99 and ($15.00) per month for nothing. I find myself something else to do everyday at FF14, and that is making new friends and I am very satisfied where I am.Â

All these complaints are nothing but negative energy and it's dragging everyone down. So I suggest that at least have yourself one more chance to have a faith than keep saying "He's gonna lie" "It's never gonna happen".

Hiro · **09-22-2014, 06:27 PM**

Information I have via Reddit and Friends who attained Private Housing on Balmung:

All small housing was sold after 32 Minutes.
Medium went faster apparently, not sure what the time was.
Large was last, took about an hour according to Reddit.

Something to note:

Availability is one thing but there is something to be said for those who are holding their heads high because they timed, waited, and got the plots that were released. People need to keep in mind that housing is special right now because it is RARE and HARD TO ATTAIN. This is the nature of vanity in an MMO. This is also the nature of Private Housing in a game like FFXIV. It's literally a cash sink. It's also being balanced based on the necessity to maintain a high value in order to just not be something "handed out" to everyone.

In my opinion none of this is broken promises, lies, or anything that insidious. It's expectations and assumptions and a disparity between developer and player base communication channels. There are factors players are not privy to, and no, we are NOT entitled to them. Unfortunately the Roleplay community (which this seems to vastly impact more than others) compared to the vast majority of the game itself, we're a very distinct and small minority. Frankly, the ONLY people who seem to be up in arms about the housing are Roleplayers, most may complain but the response from various Roleplay sources such as this forum has been the most heated.

Naunet · **09-22-2014, 06:38 PM**

(09-22-2014, 03:39 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: Everything will eventually come up as time passes by, the housing prices will go down and there will be plenty of plots available in the future.

What is your definition of plenty? Because it seems to me to be very odd. Consider that Balmung has 30,000 (roughly) players. Then consider how many houses we have, even after the wards are doubled.

Melkire · **09-22-2014, 06:42 PM**

(09-22-2014, 06:38 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(09-22-2014, 03:39 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: Everything will eventually come up as time passes by, the housing prices will go down and there will be plenty of plots available in the future.

What is your definition of plenty? Because it seems to me to be very odd. Consider that Balmung has 30,000 (roughly) players. Then consider how many houses we have, even after the wards are doubled.

xivsoul.com reports a Balmung population of 80,000 player characters. Who knows how many of those are alts. Where'd the 30k figure come from? I'm curious.

Naunet · **09-22-2014, 06:47 PM**

(09-22-2014, 06:42 PM)Melkire Wrote: xivsoul.com reports a Balmung population of 80,000 player characters. Who knows how many of those are alts. Where'd the 30k figure come from? I'm curious.

Was me typoing 80 for some random reason. xD

Even if every single player in that count had 6 alts - something that is extremelyÂ unlikely to the point that there's no real point in considering it, but we'll do so just because - that's over 13,000 players. In reality, it is far, far more, as most don't have more than one or two. And it stillÂ means there will be no where even close to "plenty" of wards, even after 2.4.

Cato · **09-22-2014, 06:56 PM**

It may very well be the case that they lied, or it may be a major misunderstanding and some sort of translation error that is to blame. Either way a significant number of players were led to believe one thing only to find out that the developers were going to do something completely different to what was originally implied.

I'm sure most people will agree that it isn't a great situation, especially since this is precisely the sort of controversy that can discourage players from investing in FFXIV. I'm also going to bring up something else that I firmly needs to be said because, quite honestly, some of the replies to this thread are leading me to make a mental note of who to avoid interacting with should I encounter them in-game.

Not everybody in this thread is new to MMO's. Many of us have invested in other MMO's over the years and know exactly what sort of tricks and issues that developers can resort to and cause. I also feel the need to point out that just because somebody feels strongly about the housing situation it is not an excuse to tell them to shut up or leave the game. If the game didn't have redeeming qualities then most of us wouldn't be here in the first place, though at the same time there is nothing preventing people from raising their concerns in a constructive manner.Â

Will some people simply come into this thread with the purpose of venting? That's likely too - but that, again, is no reason for the usual suspects to resort to personal attacks just because the game they fawn over isn't praised as being the best thing since sliced bread at every possible opportunity.

Ultimately what matters is whether the developers learn from their mistakes and make significant changes to ensure that player housing isn't something limited to those who are filthy rich, play eighteen hours a day and manage to log on during a specific window of time in order to actually purchase a house in the first place. Yet that doesn't mean we can't discuss the situation in the present and put forth a solid debate in order to conjure up solutions sooner rather than later.

The developers might not see this thread but let's not be foolish enough to pretend as if many of us don't post elsewhere on FFXIV related sites/sub-forums, eh?

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