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Flickering Ember · **09-23-2014, 10:20 AM**

(09-23-2014, 09:39 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 09:06 AM)J Wrote:
(09-23-2014, 07:58 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: But no perk of housing is absolutely necessary. My point is that the ONLY thing that stood out to make being in an FC "worth it" was the housing option and the extra chat slot.
What's 'necessary' is completely subjective based on any given player's desires. You might not like doing dungeons but that doesn't mean there's not a hefty amount of players eager to run them over and over again.Â

The developers have already announced that they'll be adding the ability for players to build their own airships within their houses in the future, so that's yet another appealing feature that will be locked behind an artificial barrier should the housing shortage not be resolved by that point.

Hunting down achievements in WoW and FFXIV isn't 'necessary' by your definition though countless players players invest in those features regardless and they enjoy it. If you don't care for housing, fine - just please stop acting like your word is law and that nobody should care for it if they're so inclined to enjoy such in-game features.

In the loosest of terms, sure, content is subjective. If you consider chocobo dye to be content, we just disagree. It has no impact on gameplay outside of vanity. It's a step above free-to-play cash shop options.

I use the word "necessary" to imply you're not barred from playing the game in any way without a house. You lose access to personal land to garden on and the ability to hold a stable, which is fair. To repeat it in case it wasn't clear, I agree that they dd a shitty job making housing available.

Regarding airships, though: We have no idea what content will be used with them. If it's a multi-million gil timesink requiring all crafts to 50 and 4* synths and all it grants you is a different travel CS out of the cities, do you think it makes sense for a single person to build their own airship? It's meant to be something you work for, not something handed to you.

For players like me, the vanity options -are- the game. I'm not sure how the ability to make my armor match, dye my clothes and my chocobo, and design the interior of my room aren't gameplay features. What I mean though is, for some folks getting two star crafting or being able to run dungeons and/or raids are gameplay features that keep that player subscribing for another 15$ a month. For people like me, the acquisition of vanity is appealing.

As others have stated, the real issue is availability here. Even when the additional wards are introduced, there are still enough people on the server to see a complete house buyout shortly after servers are up again.Â

Is it really fair to the players who have lives who can't stay up until 4 am just to camp out and grab a house? Just so they can be able to continue pursuing the features of the game they enjoy the most?

Naunet · **09-23-2014, 10:27 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:18 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: But saying "it's in the game so I should have it if I want" removes needing to work for it. If my idea of playing the game is wearing a Thug's Mug and Mandervilling on top of Tataru, I've gotta do the MSQ and requisite side story to get there.

I realize, of course, you're not arguing otherwise. I really do feel for the people who were willing to buy homes but were unable because of supply/demand.

Why are you arguing against points no one has made?

C'kayah Polaali · **09-23-2014, 10:28 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:18 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: But saying "it's in the game so I should have it if I want" removes needing to work for it. If my idea of playing the game is wearing a Thug's Mug and Mandervilling on top of Tataru, I've gotta do the MSQ and requisite side story to get there.

I don't think that's what anyone's saying, Warren. What's frustrating isn't that those of us without FC (or personal) homes don't have them because we didn't work hard enough. What's frustrating is that we don't have them despite having done all the prerequisites. It is exactly as if we'd just completed a very long quest and at the end it says "Sorry, no quest rewards are left."

Warren Castille · **09-23-2014, 10:29 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:20 AM)Flickering Ember Wrote: As others have stated, the real issue is availability here. Even when the additional wards are introduced, there are still enough people on the server to see a complete house buyout shortly after servers are up again.Â

Is it really fair to the players who have lives who can't stay up until 4 am just to camp out and grab a house? Just so they can be able to continue pursuing the features of the game they enjoy the most?

The grognard in me wants to spout about HNMs and Kings camps and the like, but that's not productive. You'd be hard pressed to find anybody who disagrees with these points, though.

Kage · **09-23-2014, 10:29 AM**

I have a life (I think) and I just patch the game while they take it down for the patch overnight and wake up at 4am because I actually wake up around that time. ... ok maybe I don't have a life since I play this game for like 7 hours on average.

Yoshi-p's post didn't say that the doubling of wards is the definitive amount of wards that are being added but that they knew they needed to work really hard in adding wards and that's their first big step.

Nice relevant part from Yoshi-p's post Wrote:The development team has been making the most of limited server resources to develop a new system that will allow us to add as many new housing plots as possible

(I mean really they are going from 5 wards to ~12 or 16? in about 3 months? I forgot when Ward 6 was dropped)

Stay tuned to fanfest and or around the same time for when 2.4 drops as he said he will be posting an update before 2.4

Cato · **09-23-2014, 10:38 AM**

The issue isn't that people aren't prepared to work towards accessing housing it's that it's virtually impossible to actually work towards it in the first place for the vast majority of players. Someone isn't 'more exclusive' just because they happened to play eighteen hours a day, seven days a week and managed to scrape together ten million gil whilst also being lucky enough to get online with no issue during a very tiny window of time when the last patch went live.

So far there's no indication that anything will change - they'll be adding a few new wards with 2.4 but as far as we can see it's going to be a repeat of what has happened each time a new ward has been added. It's not even a smart move from a business perspective either as appealing to the majority is better than the vocal minority who want to sit and brag about being one of the lucky few to have a house of their own in the first place.

Warren Castille · **09-23-2014, 10:46 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:38 AM)Jrakh Nunh Wrote: Someone isn't 'more exclusive' just because they happened to play eighteen hours a day, seven days a week and managed to scrape together ten million gil whilst also being lucky enough to get online with no issue during a very tiny window of time when the last patch went live.

Quote:1exÂ·cluÂ·sive
adjective \iks-ËˆklÃ¼-siv, -ziv\

: not shared : available to only one person or group

By definition of the word. These are the people who want your houses; Compete or go without.

Until there's enough wards in the game that people aren't filling them up anymore, this is the lay of the land.

Kage · **09-23-2014, 10:50 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:46 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Until there's enough wards in the game that people aren't filling them up anymore, this is the lay of the land.

The way FFXIV is, I doubt there's ever going to be one house plot for every member type of deal. If they view it as an achievement there's always going to be some type of achievement.

But it definitely needs to be at a point where you are competing to get in line that determines what nice plot you got and not whether or not you can ever get one. The line shouldn't take months. it's definitely an issue when 2 Wards fill up in ~1-2 hours on a populated server.

Cato · **09-23-2014, 10:50 AM**

Forcing players to compete for something that is highly desirable and pretty standard in the industry is just silly. It's not even their intention to force players to compete for a house of their own, they just haven't gotten around to upgrading the servers in order to handle the unexpected success of FFXIV.

It also spawns a toxic community with players placing themselves on a pedestal for being one of the lucky few to be able to log on at a specific time to purchase a house and then ramble about it being 'tough luck' that people with real life commitments at the time couldn't attempt the same thing.

There's no 'achievement' in logging on at a specific time and date. Nor is that something to applaud when it serves to poison the community.

Warren Castille · **09-23-2014, 10:53 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:50 AM)Jrakh Nunh Wrote: Forcing players to compete for something that is highly desirable and pretty standard in the industry is just silly. It's not even their intention to force players to compete for a house of their own, they just haven't gotten around to upgrading the servers in order to handle the unexpected success of FFXIV.

It also spawns a toxic community with players placing themselves on a pedestal for being one of the lucky few to be able to log on at a specific time to purchase a house and then ramble about it being 'tough luck' that people with real life commitments at the time couldn't attempt the same thing.

There's no 'achievement' in logging on at a specific time and date.

You would have haaaaated the fishing weeklies in WoW, then.

Your monthly fee doesn't entitle you to everything. It's unfortunate, but someone's gotta say it. If you want a house, you've got to want it more than the people who ARE logging out in front of the zoneline and waking up at 3:30am and spamming refresh on the log-in screen. Otherwise, you're waiting until the demand has died down.

And we all agree it sucks.

Naunet · **09-23-2014, 10:59 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:53 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: You would have haaaaated the fishing weeklies in WoW, then.

Your monthly fee doesn't entitle you to everything. It's unfortunate, but someone's gotta say it. If you want a house, you've got to want it more than the people who ARE logging out in front of the zoneline and waking up at 3:30am and spamming refresh on the log-in screen. Otherwise, you're waiting until the demand has died down.

Please, please point me to the MMO trend where fishing weeklies designed as a racing competition are established as standard, available to everyone content, as housing is.

Cato · **09-23-2014, 11:01 AM**

I'm actually a huge fan of WoW's model and play it regularly. Blizzard are open and honest about their intentions for the game and they make it crystal clear as to what aspects of the game are designed for the 'hardcore' and will be 'exclusive'. They also regularly keep players up to date with exactly what to expect with each new patch, sometimes months in advance.

FFXIV, unfortunately, only does that to an extent - and after receiving very little information in regards to player housing a significant number of players saw fit to take the early statements at face value.

Either way a single weekly quest does not compare to something as massively anticipated as player housing which can be customised extensively and encourages player investment.

Phayte · **09-23-2014, 11:12 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:53 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: You would have haaaaated the fishing weeklies in WoW, then.

Your monthly fee doesn't entitle you to everything. It's unfortunate, but someone's gotta say it. If you want a house, you've got to want it more than the people who ARE logging out in front of the zoneline and waking up at 3:30am and spamming refresh on the log-in screen. Otherwise, you're waiting until the demand has died down.

And we all agree it sucks.

This reminds me of people on the night before Black Friday in tents camping out infront of a door. No matter which side you're on (fine or un-fine), there always holes to poke in arguments. Fine, there's a finite quantity. Would you be happy if there was a finite quantities of relics nexus because we can't render all the shiniess? First 10 people to grind 1000 runs of Cape Westwind. Cause well, you don't need one, there's tons of other weapons too that are the same ilvl. (Just giving an example.)

I'm upset about the whole thing and there really isn't much we can do unless the devs change their minds, but I think everyone just wants a chance to express their displeasure. Attempting to downplay another person's priorities or the importance of a feature is usually a bad idea and normally ends up just makes things go down a bad path on both parties.

I always try to keep the philosophy of looking towards a solution rather than dwelling on the problem. If we stay quiet, nothing ever changes. If we complain, at least they'll consider approaching things differently from the feature.

Coming up with ideas to give to post on the official forum, or giving RP'er alternatives (I remember seeing someone with personal housing willing to share), and whatever else would be more productive.

Warren Castille · **09-23-2014, 11:15 AM**

(09-23-2014, 10:59 AM)Naunet Wrote: Please, please point me to the MMO trend where fishing weeklies designed as a racing competition are established as standard, available to everyone content, as housing is.

(09-23-2014, 11:01 AM)Jrakh Nunh Wrote: Either way a single weekly quest does not compare to something as massively anticipated as player housing which can be customised extensively and encourages player investment.

Subjective. Like I said, this is a slippery slope. There are fishing-stat exclusive items that come from those dailies so as someone who's only interested in fishing, I should be allowed to compete. It's not fair I can't be online.

See what I mean? I don't really subscribe to that opinion, but how is it any less valid than what's being said in this thread?

Kage · **09-23-2014, 11:16 AM**

The thing is... 6 Wards... 12 Wards.. 16 wards.. that's not going to be the end all be all to housing. They're going to keep adding more. From the statement I linked and quoted, they're hoping that they will get a system up that seems to aim to get housing up that will be much more servable to the population. It's. just. going. to. take. time.

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Personal Housing Thread 2.0

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