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Zetchryn · **12-19-2014, 09:15 PM**

I hate to say it, but in my research, I've found nil to no lore about the dragons, dragoons, Ishgard or the like in this game, which is troubling since, while I adore Dragoons in other titles, I'm not sure how they are in this, or if A'zireena will go after them/be convinced to join! Anyone able to explain a bit more about them?

Boo the Hamster · **12-19-2014, 11:54 PM**

You won't get much lore on Ishgard itself until you hit level 30 and receive the job quest to become a Dragoon, and zero lore on Dragoon otherwise.Â You'll begin seeing lore once you hit level 30, and more every 5 levels, with the 2.0 story giving you a brief glimpse of Ishgardian hierarchy, and the 2.4 story giving you more details on higher chain of command.

In short, you are a Dragoon in this game because you are sent a letter for being the best in the lancer's guild.Â You are not a Dragoon because Ishgard wants outsiders as a Dragoon.Â They are closed off to the point of isolationism despite starvation, lack of materials, among other, far bigger problems which you will find out in the plot of XIV.Â Why they continue their isolation you will find out in the story as well.

In short, it is extremely uncommon for races not Hyur or Elezen to be part of the citizenry outside of servitude, let alone be in the armies itself.Â House Fortemps accepts adventurers, but all outsiders are forbidden from learning the practices of Dragoon until extreme circumstances, which Heavensward and the Dragoon Questline will show.

There is multiple sets of Dragoon armor, though it is questionable for a Miqo'te to don the armor, or so I would think, let alone get training as a Dragoon.Â The title itself, however, is gained from proof of slaying a dragon if you are in the Ishgardian military.

If you want to RP a Dragoon, you are either going to be an exile, or you're part of Ishgardian military, and thus stuck in Coerthas for your RP if you want to be dedicated as such.Â I don't know about others opinions IC or OOC, but some of the more...traditional Dragoons would give you the cold shoulder, if not outright call you an insult to Dragoons because of your race, and/or the belief that you did not 'earn' the right to be called one. I personally think it would be fine if you did get some training on some of the basic Dragoon skills, but it is a stretch enough as it is with the current plot line.

There is also some abilities that only the 'Azure Dragoon' can use lore-wise, which is (I think) your level 50 job skill, Dragonfire Dive. Even if you /did/ attempt this, which there is some special snowflake syndrome going on, as it has the chosen one plot and all that, you won't be recognized as the Azure for reasons you will find out in the questline.

Zetchryn · **12-20-2014, 12:05 AM**

So, in short, it's going to be very much of a stretch for a Miqo'te to ever learn to be a Dragoon...

Oof, but rather then actually let that discourage me, I'll let A'zireena discover that on her own. It'll be a very interesting thing to RP around, her trying to learn how to be one, to be taught, and trying to prove that she can do it. As it is, she's already having to overcome her clumsy disposition, so this'll actually be interesting.

Boo the Hamster · **12-20-2014, 12:16 AM**

I would hate to say 'wait' on a personal plot, but if you are sticking around for Heavensward, you might have access to it then, since it will be one of those desperate times that any sword-arm that is willing to help and willing to go through the training can become a Dragoon.

In tradition, the armor is specifically crafted for you, as well as a weapon for the Dragoon, Gae Bolg for help in guiding them in jumps to successfully land on their target.Â There are female Dragoons as well as males, though now that I think on it, there is no lore on exactly what race was the Dragoons of legend.Â Considering that the only Dragoon npcs are Hyur and Elezen though, chances are it's one of those two exclusively until the player comes along.

Austurmax Laforet · **12-20-2014, 01:07 AM**

I have to say I have a problem with some of what been said so far.

First, there is absolutely nothing in the Ishgardian lore that says they are racist, anywhere. They certainly are hostile against unbelievers and outsiders, but you see Miqo'te serving in the military along with Hyur and Elezen. Hyur and Elezen are certainly the most populous races in Coerthas, but the only ones? No.

Second, dragoon techniques would certainly be military secrets in general, but its not impossible for someone to learn them through joining the military. You would have to take an oath to Ishgard, but remember, the dragoons are simply an elite military unit, and the current Azure was an orphan peasant from a destroyed village in Dravania.

In summary, if you can come up with an IC reason for your character to be a dragoon and have received that training, it should be fine regardless of what race they are, as long as they are an actual dragoon and not a random shmoe who knows their techniques for some reason.

Boo the Hamster · **12-20-2014, 01:11 AM**

(12-20-2014, 01:07 AM)Austurmax Laforet Wrote: I have to say I have a problem with some of what been said so far.

First, there is absolutely nothing in the Ishgardian lore that says they are racist, anywhere. They certainly are hostile against unbelievers and outsiders, but you see Miqo'te serving in the military along with Hyur and Elezen. Hyur and Elezen are certainly the most populous races in Coerthas, but the only ones? No.

What Miqo'te?Â There is /zero/ Miqo'te npcs in Coerthas.Â If I did miss any, where would they be? Â I'm curious.

There is a difference between being racist and being nationalist or having pride in tradition.Â If you want to twist my words into saying that /all/ Coerthans are racist instead of specific people, then perhaps you should reread what I wrote.

Not to mention if you actually bothered to read what I wrote instead of posting a blatant lie about what I wrote you would know that I /did/ mention other races existing in Coerthas. Â In fact, if you look back to my earliest posts, I did mention that Miqo'te do exist in Coerthas, just not in the region, and that is ONE npc in 1.0.

Please read the post next time. Â It's very rude to do that.

Please

Edit: Â Misread intent apparently. Â Oh well, guess I should use the PM function more.

Austurmax Laforet · **12-20-2014, 01:39 AM**

First, I don't remember the precise location of the Miqo'te in Central Highlands, however Gatewarden K'leyta does exist.

Edit Actually I did run into a Miqo'te in Coerthas again, there is an archer in the room with Lord Fortemps.

Second I never said that you claimed that all Ishgardians were racist, but you did say that it would be dubious for a Miqo'te to be wearing the armor, which is a factor based on race, and one that there isn't really an evidence for in the lore. Like I said, they're scarce in Coerthas, but they do exist.

Now, as you have decided that my disagreeing with a few points of yours constitutes a personal attack on you (which was not the least bit my intention), I'm going to stop responding to this as I feel otherwise this is going to turn into a personal flame-war which I have no interest in. I will part by advising you to take your own advice.

V'aleera · **12-20-2014, 02:08 AM**

A dragoon, at the most basic level, is any Ishgardian soldier that has slain a dragon (like, a big scary dragon; not just a puk) and has been recognized for it by Ishgardian authorities. In other words, it's technically less of a job and more of a title. The valiant knight that has trained for decades to slay a mighty Dravanian terror has just as much of a shot at becoming a dragoon as Steve the Ballista Guy who got a lucky shot off in the heat of battle.

Moving past the title being available to anyone who happens to kill a dragon, it has been made clear that dragoons do comprise an elite fighting force in Ishgard specialized in killing dragons. To that end they practice a unique fighting style that involves, among other things, aerial combat maneuvers utilizing the job's famous jump techniques.

Then there's the Azure Dragoon, which is a whole 'nother thing that is sadly so irrelevant to the discussion of regular dragoons that I can't imagine getting into the details of it would serve as much more than a distraction from the subject at hand. You'll learn all about that from the in-game quests anyway.

Now, as far as your character is concerned, there is nothing in lore that strictly prohibits the existence of a Miqo'te dragoon. My own character is one in fact. There's nothing to suggest Ishgard is purely Hyur and Elezen; only that those two races comprise the majority of the population (with the latter holding most of the political power). An important thing to keep in mind is that Ishgard has only shut itself off from the world for twenty years. That's not a long time, and the idea that a few members of every other race didn't trickle in to the city during the thousand or so years before that is frankly kind of ridiculous.

However, being a dragoon (that is, a loyal and distinguished member of Ishgard's military) in the context of the current place of the story is a bit tricky, as there are several requirements that need to be met:

First, you need to be Ishgardian. No outsiders have been allowed into the city for twenty years and the nation remains extremely distrustful of outsiders. While adventurers may be tolerated and employed to help on the ground in Coerthas, it's highly improbable (if not wholly impossible) an outsider to Ishgard would be able to get the official endowment of the title dragoon.

Second, if you are a loyal member of Ishgard's military and rank among their elite dragon fighters, why are you not in Ishgard fighting dragons right now? Coming up with a strong answer for that question is not impossible, but it requires some creative flexibility and more likely than not the exploitation of gray areas of lore.

If you are not presently a loyal member of Ishgard's military, then you are not a dragoon. You were a dragoon! Tongue

In short, if your character is not Ishgardian in origin, it's not very plausible that they would be able to become an actual, titled dragoon. With that said, it is significantly more doable for your character to come in contact with ex-Ishgardian soldiers or dragoons and to learn the skills they're willing to teach, culminating in becoming an actual dragoon during/after the events of Heavensward.

I'm sure I missed some things, but I hoped that helped at least a little. And if A'zireena ever wants to get her own education about the noble and esteemed ranks of Ishgardian dragon slayers, she's more than welcome to say hi to V'aleera any time!

EDIT: I'd like to touch briefly on the issue of racism within Ishgardian society. While it hasn't been explicitly shown, I can't help but speculate based on various factors present in Ishgard that their people might trend toward being racist. They're a nation of isolationist xenophobes with a bit of a cultural superiority complex, on top of being one of the most religiously zealous societies in Eorzea. That's one heck of a mix that lends itself to speculation that Ishgardians do not treat people that fall outside the norm particularly well.

Again, just so we're clear: speculation.

Chris Ganale · **12-20-2014, 05:54 AM**

As a frame of reference, my miqo'te character has a set of replica wyrm mail and knows the skills of a dragoon, and here's how.

Huge-ass backstory aside, he's favored the lance since he left his tribe because it lets him keep most enemies at arm's reach. He especially started to favor it after he started traveling with his soon-to-be-wife, who is a thaumaturge, because he used its reach to keep things away from her. (He's a white knight of the highest caliber, but that's not the discussion here)

While traveling together, he self-taught himself how to be a lancer on top of occasionally picking up official pointers from the lancers' guild. When it came to the point that both of them felt as if they couldn't progress any further in their fields on their own, they started looking for outside tutors. She found one first, and as she was training in black magic, he continued to self-train, not learning anything new, but honing his existing skill to a razor's edge. Once she finished, he got word that there might be someone in Coerthas he could learn some advanced training from.

So they trucked off to the frozen hell land and met an ex-dragoon House Fortemps guard captain, who initially had no intention of teaching him any DRG skills because he was an outsider. But the guy was a big softie, and decided to teach him in secret after learning that my character's sole reason to learn was to protect his sweetheart.

And barring some extra backstory stuff involving a notorious monster and a dickhead inquisitor, that's how I got a miqo'te who has the skill and equipment of a DRG but no official recognition or title, and in fact has a death mark on his head in Ishgard.

Seriphyn · **12-20-2014, 06:04 AM**

What's wrong with just being a lancer?

Don't need to be a dragoon to be an interesting character, especially as you'd have to continuously justify it IC and OOC being Miqo'te. If you're up for that...

Chris Ganale · **12-20-2014, 06:12 AM**

Technically, R'tahz is just a lancer. The only reason he has wyrm mail at all is because the guy who trained him overheard his waifu saying she thought the armor was hot, so the guy got him a replica set. Same with his lance. It's a replica. Really, collecting replicas of gear is sort of his hobby.

Zetchryn · **12-20-2014, 11:08 AM**

The only reason A'zireena is moving towards Dragoon is, eventually, she wants to learn their fighting style. It's entirely plausible for her to learn how to fight from one of the exiled masses and the like. As for her becoming a loyal soldier of Ishgard and the like? Probably Heavensward will be where she can look at being official, correct.

Thank you ALL for the lovely information. It will not discourage me, the player, from pursuing this, as I think it'll lead to interesting RP for A'zireena to be trying to overcome the racism and challenges as she searches for someone to teach her.

And being a normal lancer is fine! She'll TECHNICALLY just be a normal lancer that jumps around a lot! Sort of... Kind of...

CrimsonMars · **12-20-2014, 02:49 PM**

(12-20-2014, 06:04 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: What's wrong with just being a lancer?

Don't need to be a dragoon to be an interesting character, especially as you'd have to continuously justify it IC and OOC being Miqo'te. If you're up for that...

Because ordinary lancers 'can't jump.' Tongue

Dragoons!

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes