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mongi291 · **03-27-2015, 01:33 PM**

Oh, I have another question: I mentioned my character would be passing down combat techniques to the common folk, in order to teach them how to defend. While he would be able without a doubt to teach GLA skills (and more in general sword and board fighting), what if he took an apprentice and decided to teach him more advanced skills? Would that be possible without a job crystal? And how would Sultansworns react? Would it be "legal"?

Warren Castille · **03-27-2015, 01:39 PM**

At a glance: Paladin swordsmanship is largely in line with gladiator skills on a mechanics-level. I imagine there are certain stances or tricks or techniques that are only given to you as a result of training. Those sorts of things would likely be highly frowned upon falling into the hands of "regular" people - You're giving everyone the secret Coca-Cola recipe, and Coke's not going to like that.

Sword-and-board, though, is perfectly fine. Basic technique and instruction can go a long way to helping people learn to protect themselves, and no one would frown upon that being done.

Soulstones are a point of contention somewhat. We don't know if they're required, but if I remember my fluff right it's reasoned that the soul stone in the paladin quest taking to you is part of why you're able to pick up techniques so readily. I personally don't believe all Free Paladins or Sultansworn are required to have one, but that's also a persona belief without any strong ties into the game (to my knowledge).

Teaching someone is fine. Teaching someone Sultansworn trade secrets is most likely very, very troublesome.

mongi291 · **03-27-2015, 01:51 PM**

(03-27-2015, 01:39 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: At a glance: Paladin swordsmanship is largely in line with gladiator skills on a mechanics-level. I imagine there are certain stances or tricks or techniques that are only given to you as a result of training. Those sorts of things would likely be highly frowned upon falling into the hands of "regular" people - You're giving everyone the secret Coca-Cola recipe, and Coke's not going to like that.

Sword-and-board, though, is perfectly fine. Basic technique and instruction can go a long way to helping people learn to protect themselves, and no one would frown upon that being done.

Soulstones are a point of contention somewhat. We don't know if they're required, but if I remember my fluff right it's reasoned that the soul stone in the paladin quest taking to you is part of why you're able to pick up techniques so readily. I personally don't believe all Free Paladins or Sultansworn are required to have one, but that's also a persona belief without any strong ties into the game (to my knowledge).

Teaching someone is fine. Teaching someone Sultansworn trade secrets is most likely very, very troublesome.

Well of course he wouldn't teach them to everyone... For example, if he found a village with no one able to fight, he would teach them sword and shield combat so they can defend themselves just fine.
But, for example, if he found someone training in the use of the sword, he could decide to teach them more advanced techniques. Of course he wouldn't do it with everyone, but just with one or two peoples, and test if they are fit, both on a physical and mental level. He's not going to teach it to someone too weak and frail, nor to someone who could go mad and abuse those techniques.
And yes, I thought the same: you can become a Paladin, a Warrior, or whatever you want, you just need training. The job crystals just speed up the problems by giving you access to the memories of people that went through your same training.

Warren Castille · **03-27-2015, 01:56 PM**

It's vague what the paladin skillset actually is in game - mechanically we get Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn but does that mean we can assume all paladins know how to do that? There are examples of fighters who are explicitly not Sultansworn of Free Paladins using those techniques: In Halatali Hard Mode, you'll face gladiators with sword and shield who use Spirits Without and Bloodstain, moves that are extremely similar but not the same.

Is it possible that the gladiators there received some training, but not all? Spirits and Bloodstain both have charge-up time, whereas paladins can do them instantly. Perhaps that's the important part? Anyone unlearned would take time to unleash such a thing, but a paladin trained in the kung fu style "secret technique" would be able to unleash them instantly?

There's a lot of variables in play. You should be alright to do whatever you choose with the idea, just be mindful that perhaps the Sworn won't be so content to learn a former one of their own is making his own legion of heroes. Could make for an interesting plot point down the road.

mongi291 · **03-27-2015, 02:11 PM**

Circle of Scorn counts as a PLD skill? It makes sense, with that name... I guess they gave it to GLA since there is no reason to change back to GLA after getting PLD.
Well, Spirits Without and Bloodstain are interesting: while it would make sense if they are the weaker, unsworn version of Spirits Within, as they are used by GLA enemies, we have Jenlyns, who is, if I remember correctly, the captain of the Sultansworn. I get it, the charge time and AoE effect on them is to make the fight easier, but they also have weaker potency, and in Bloodstain's case, no DoT. Why doesn't Jenlyns' version at least have the usual name and the usual potency/effect?
Sadly, I don't remember if Solkzagyl used them in the last PLD quest. Probably if he used Spirits Without and Bloodstain it would mean they are just for NPCs, since Solkzagyl is surely more experienced.

Warren Castille · **03-27-2015, 02:17 PM**

(03-27-2015, 02:11 PM)mongi291 Wrote: Circle of Scorn counts as a PLD skill? It makes sense, with that name... I guess they gave it to GLA since there is no reason to change back to GLA after getting PLD.
Well, Spirits Without and Bloodstain are interesting: while it would make sense if they are the weaker, unsworn version of Spirits Within, as they are used by GLA enemies, we have Jenlyns, who is, if I remember correctly, the captain of the Sultansworn. I get it, the charge time and AoE effect on them is to make the fight easier, but they also have weaker potency, and in Bloodstain's case, no DoT. Why doesn't Jenlyns' version at least have the usual name and the usual potency/effect?
Sadly, I don't remember if Solkzagyl used them in the last PLD quest. Probably if he used Spirits Without and Bloodstain it would mean they are just for NPCs, since Solkzagyl is surely more experienced.

You got me, I misremembered CoS as a Paladin skill. It's Hallowed Ground that's the 50 ability.

This is what I was curious about regarding lore and mechanics - sometimes they mesh? Sometimes they don't. Jenlyns uses skills that also feature a charge-up time, but we defeat him as an untrained paladin. Is this manifested in the Warrior of Light? Are we overthinking game mechanics?

We don't have answers, which to a roleplayer also means we don't necessarily need them. If you can learn a technique, you can teach it. It might lose some fidelity being passed down, but it also might not. The idea exists firmly nestled in the reasonable grey areas.

mongi291 · **03-31-2015, 09:51 AM**

Ok, now that patch 2.55 is out and I can't play it, I thought I could bump this thread. Did they give any informations about Au Ras? Would my character idea be at leastÂ possible?

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Gegenji · **03-31-2015, 09:54 AM**

(03-31-2015, 09:51 AM)mongi291 Wrote: Ok, now that patch 2.55 is out and I can't play it, I thought I could bump this thread. Did they give any informations about Au Ras? Would my character idea be at leastÂ possible?

I think the update is mostly about the Ul'dah situation, so I'd doubt there's much new information on the Au Ra. Unless Yugiri does some disposition at some point during a cutscene. I can't really check it out until after work, myself, so I can't say anything definite.

mongi291 · **03-31-2015, 10:00 AM**

(03-31-2015, 09:54 AM)Gegenji Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 09:51 AM)mongi291 Wrote: Ok, now that patch 2.55 is out and I can't play it, I thought I could bump this thread. Did they give any informations about Au Ras? Would my character idea be at leastÂ possible?

I think the update is mostly about the Ul'dah situation, so I'd doubt there's much new information on the Au Ra. Unless Yugiri does some disposition at some point during a cutscene. I can't really check it out until after work, myself, so I can't say anything definite.

Well, we know from the trailer that Yugiri reveals her face. So I'd be surprised if we don't get any information.

Warren Castille · **03-31-2015, 10:16 AM**

As of this moment, patch has only been live for a couple of hours. I know people are already past the Trial portion of it, but I've also been keeping myself unawares of spoilers. I'm sure it'll be discussed if the Au Ra get mentioned, though.

Kage · **03-31-2015, 10:22 AM**

(03-31-2015, 10:16 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: As of this moment, patch has only been live for a couple of hours. I know people are already past the Trial portion of it, but I've also been keeping myself unawares of spoilers. I'm sure it'll be discussed if the Au Ra get mentioned, though.

According to someone on reddit who posted Yugiri's face, no lore about Au Ra were mentioned. I got a flat "No." when I asked.

Warren Castille · **03-31-2015, 10:27 AM**

(03-31-2015, 10:22 AM)Kage Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 10:16 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: As of this moment, patch has only been live for a couple of hours. I know people are already past the Trial portion of it, but I've also been keeping myself unawares of spoilers. I'm sure it'll be discussed if the Au Ra get mentioned, though.
According to someone on reddit who posted Yugiri's face, no lore about Au Ra were mentioned. I got a flat "No." when I asked.

...that is hilarious.

Edit:

Yugiri: I'm an Au Ra, guys.
Everyone: A what?
Yugiri: NO TIME TO EXPLAINS LOOK DRAGONS

Kage · **03-31-2015, 10:32 AM**

(03-31-2015, 10:27 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 10:22 AM)Kage Wrote:
(03-31-2015, 10:16 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: As of this moment, patch has only been live for a couple of hours. I know people are already past the Trial portion of it, but I've also been keeping myself unawares of spoilers. I'm sure it'll be discussed if the Au Ra get mentioned, though.
According to someone on reddit who posted Yugiri's face, no lore about Au Ra were mentioned. I got a flat "No." when I asked.

...that is hilarious.

Edit:

Yugiri: I'm an Au Ra, guys.
Everyone: A what?
Yugiri: NO TIME TO EXPLAINS LOOK DRAGONS

Considering what I am trying to put together of the story from bits and pieces of spoilers, this may in fact actually be what is going on. "NO TIME FOR EXPLANATIONS WE MUST GO NAO" Either Dragons or Ul'dah MSQ. Take your pick they're all omfg.

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