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allgivenover · **04-01-2015, 11:44 AM**

(04-01-2015, 11:37 AM)K Wrote: I'd really like to think that - now that there is no time constraint and panic to reboot an entire game - they'll now pay more attention and heed into customisation.

Not until PS3 limitations are gone, and maybe not even then.

Spethah · **04-01-2015, 11:48 AM**

It was totally planned.Â

Look at his left (our right).

It was totally planned.

Sounsyy · **04-01-2015, 12:02 PM**

I was in Voice Chat with a friend as we played the MSQ together. He called the poison in the goblet and being framed for it the moment Momodi told us to meet Alianne in the desert. Sure enough. The foreshadowing of the Goblet Motif for the last several months really spelled out Nanamo's death to me. I knew it was coming, just wasn't sure exactly how. But the plot all fell together perfectly.

Once Ilberd was revealed, I suddenly understood the Ala Mhigan riots in Ul'dah. Who better to orchestrate an Ala Mhigan revolt than an Ala Mhigan!? And Ilberds confession - the eating the dirt while Raubahn reaped the rewards of the Bloodsands. AUGH! For those who don't know, this is actually a huge reference to a storyline in 1.0. When the Ala Mhigans first found asylum in Ul'dah, Ul'dah promised them asylum, but nothing else. No work, no shelter, no food. Nothing. In Ul'dah there was no such thing as a free meal - until J'moldva the Hellfire Phoenix won the hearts of the Bloodsands, breaking the laws of her people in the process, in order to give them work. Because of her sacrifice, Ala Mhigans were admitted and hired freely into the Coliseum to use as a source of income. And from the Coliseum - Ala Mhigans were scouted and hired for other mercenary work. It is because of her efforts that the young Raubahn was able to participate when before he and Ilberd had nothing but the clothes on their backs. He rose to glory and became "Ul'dahn" leaving his brothers behind - much in the same way that Ala Mhigans viewed J'moldva at the time.

UGH to see that divide between the Ala Mhigans who were utterly crushed by Ul'dah finally seek revenge against those Ala Mhigans who had prospered... so good. For me, this was a chapter that's been 5 years coming.

I am, however, really divided on whether or not Nanamo Ul Namo is actually dead or not? I saw her die... Yes. Nobody did anything to save her from choking on poison and her own vomit. But... why would anyone spread rumors of her still being alive? It doesn't make sense. The end game of Lolorito's plot was to kill the Sultana, frame the WoL/Scions, and use Teledji's greed and opportunistic nature to make him the perfect patsy, knowing he'd open his big mouth and Raubahn's immense anger issues would do him off. The Syndicate is now down to 4 and no Sultana.

So why then, if you HAVE an assassin, propagate a rumor that she's still alive? Unless she actually... somehow... managed to live? His whole fabrication hinges on the public believing the WoL killed the Sultana. There's no proof otherwise. IDK. Something about that just doesn't rub me the right way. Unless it's just NPCs wishfully thinking or someone else (not Lolorito) is spreading the rumor to sew hope back into the people of Ul'dah to prevent civil war between the Royalists and the Monetarists.

Also, Y'shtola and Y'mhitra! <3 That confession made me really happy. Y'shtola is usually the really shut off one in the group. Her work comes first. And seeing her express some care over a family member or figure from her past was really great for me. So definitely don't think she's dead. If not for the Y'mhitra thing - Y'shtola still has that whole secretive arc with Merlwyb going on that the WoL overhears at the end of 2.2? So she's got some pretty strong plot armor. The rest... maybe. Yda and Papalymo are yinyang characters, so they'd have to die together if one of them died. The other character becomes flat and stagnant without their other half. We saw Yda's eye... means she's either dead (cuz depression over Moen) or she'll live and be forced to take that offer from Rowena for a more fashionable hat come 3.0.

Merp feels. Maybe Minfilia will finally start becoming a character now? Hydaelyn told her to go back. Obviously Hydaelyn didn't tell her to go back just to die... that would've been stupid. But I have a feeling it's going to be a long time before we see any of those Scions again. Like 3.1 is my guess. We'll have some stuff to do in Coerthas/Dravania before we get to return to the city states.

Zhavi · **04-01-2015, 12:07 PM**

You guys are really, really making me want to play.... but I have around 200 more pages to read for homework before tomorrow. The most I can do is fish while I read. ;_;

Erik Mynhier · **04-01-2015, 12:14 PM**

The light you see overtake the scions reminds me of the light that sent the WoL into the future.

Also, just saying, Raubahn cutting that loudmouth lala in half....... Best Cutscene EVER!

Berrod Armstrong · **04-01-2015, 12:15 PM**

(04-01-2015, 12:02 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: I am, however, really divided on whether or not Nanamo Ul Namo is actually dead or not? I saw her die... Yes. Nobody did anything to save her from choking on poison and her own vomit. But... why would anyone spread rumors of her still being alive? It doesn't make sense. The end game of Lolorito's plot was to kill the Sultana, frame the WoL/Scions, and use Teledji's greed and opportunistic nature to make him the perfect patsy, knowing he'd open his big mouth and Raubahn's immense anger issues would do him off. The Syndicate is now down to 4 and no Sultana.

So why then, if you HAVE an assassin, propagate a rumor that she's still alive? Unless she actually... somehow... managed to live? His whole fabrication hinges on the public believing the WoL killed the Sultana. There's no proof otherwise. IDK. Something about that just doesn't rub me the right way. Unless it's just NPCs wishfully thinking or someone else (not Lolorito) is spreading the rumor to sew hope back into the people of Ul'dah to prevent civil war between the Royalists and the Monetarists.

The bolded bit is exactly why I think they're trying to keep up the impression that they're still alive. An 'attempted assassination' can rouse people just as easily as an actual one, so it's easy to paint the WoL in Nanamo's blood regardless.Â

I figure that they'll wait until they have a firmer grasp on things -- more control. And then announce that she 'succumbed' to her illness/the poison/whatever they're calling it. It's smart, since they'll be in a better position to handle anyone who wants to make something of it.Â

Of course, that's just my thoughts! Eagerly waiting to see where Heavensward takes us.

Aya · **04-01-2015, 12:21 PM**

Thank you for the lovely post Sounsyy!Â I love the arch you've drawn out with the Ala Mhigans, talk about a serious and understandable source of tension and conflict.Â That is so very very good. (And makes me worry somewhat for this Ishgardian Ala Mhigan doing just fine in Ul'dah).

Cato · **04-01-2015, 12:22 PM**

I find it very satisfying that it actually wasn't the Primals, Beast Tribes or Garleans that 'broke' Eorzea but Eorzeans themselves. It's rather poetic but then I've always been a fan of a hefty dose of tragedy in a story.

Berrod Armstrong · **04-01-2015, 12:23 PM**

(04-01-2015, 12:22 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I find it very satisfying that it actually wasn't the Primals, Beast Tribes or Garleans that 'broke' Eorzea but Eorzeans themselves. It's rather poetic but then I've always been a fan of a hefty dose of tragedy in a story.

Funny you should mention that because my friend and I were discussing this from a, "Good lord, maybe they WOULD be better off under Imperial rule...!" perspective.

Aya · **04-01-2015, 12:24 PM**

(04-01-2015, 12:23 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(04-01-2015, 12:22 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I find it very satisfying that it actually wasn't the Primals, Beast Tribes or Garleans that 'broke' Eorzea but Eorzeans themselves. It's rather poetic but then I've always been a fan of a hefty dose of tragedy in a story.
Funny you should mention that because my friend and I were discussing this from a, "Good lord, maybe they WOULD be better off under Imperial rule...!" perspective.

Psssh.Â A little creative destruction is what makes the world go 'round.Â Just ask Rhalgar Smile

Cato · **04-01-2015, 12:26 PM**

(04-01-2015, 12:23 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote:
(04-01-2015, 12:22 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I find it very satisfying that it actually wasn't the Primals, Beast Tribes or Garleans that 'broke' Eorzea but Eorzeans themselves. It's rather poetic but then I've always been a fan of a hefty dose of tragedy in a story.
Funny you should mention that because my friend and I were discussing this from a, "Good lord, maybe they WOULD be better off under Imperial rule...!" perspective.

It's largely why I'm hoping that when we finally see the Garlean Empire in all its full glory it'll be in a more sympathetic/morally grey light rather than 'standard evil empire with no redeeming qualities'.

Something along the lines of Archades in FFXII would be wonderfully satisfying! It'd certainly tempt Graeham to embrace his heritage...

Aya · **04-01-2015, 12:28 PM**

(04-01-2015, 12:26 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: It's largely why I'm hoping that when we finally see the Garlean Empire in all its full glory it'll be in a more sympathetic/morally grey light rather than 'standard evil empire with no redeeming qualities'.

Something along the lines of Archades in FFXII would be wonderfully satisfying! It'd certainly tempt Graeham to embrace his heritage...

I think the chance of that happening after they literally dropped a moon on Eorzea is nill.Â I certainly hope that's the case.

Gegenji · **04-01-2015, 12:31 PM**

(04-01-2015, 12:28 PM)Aya Wrote:
(04-01-2015, 12:26 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: It's largely why I'm hoping that when we finally see the Garlean Empire in all its full glory it'll be in a more sympathetic/morally grey light rather than 'standard evil empire with no redeeming qualities'.

Something along the lines of Archades in FFXII would be wonderfully satisfying! It'd certainly tempt Graeham to embrace his heritage...
I think the chance of that happening after they literally dropped a moon on Eorzea is nill.Â I certainly hope that's the case.

Well, the whole Ultima Weapon affair also shows that not all Garlean organizations are acting in harmony. So, not only could you just have one rogue unit while the rest is okay... you could also have a rogue unit that's more for helping Eorzea than simply dominating it. So, even if the moon dropping is a sign of Garlean mindset as a whole, there's not thing keeping SE from having at least one unit that's all "Yeah... that was really stupid of us. We've been trying to clean up after that."

Aya · **04-01-2015, 12:35 PM**

(04-01-2015, 12:31 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Well, the whole Ultima Weapon affair also shows that not all Garlean organizations are acting in harmony. So, not only could you just have one rogue unit while the rest is okay... you could also have a rogue unit that's more for helping Eorzea than simply dominating it. So, even if the moon dropping is a sign of Garlean mindset as a whole, there's not thing keeping SE from having at least one unit that's all "Yeah... that was really stupid of us. We've been trying to clean up after that."

I don't suppose I really mean that I hope there's no room for redeeming aspects.Â Of course the Garlean Empire has redeeming aspects.Â They just fade into complete and utter meaningless given the weight of their wickedness as its been put on clear display to Eorzea.Â Any shift to establish them as anything but villains will really be impossible for me to swallow.

Edit: Not to say that there aren't interesting character archs that have characters doing just that!

Cato · **04-01-2015, 12:36 PM**

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I actually wanted the Warrior of Light to align himself with Gaius rather than Hydaelyn. Although Gaius resorted to extreme methods he never really struck me as being completely rotten to the core and the Eorzean leadership has proven time and time again that it leaves much to be desired.

We've also only really seen the Garlean Empire from the perspective of Eorzea which may very well be quite biased. Much in the same way as I suspect we'll find out that not everything is black and white in the war between the Ishgardians and the Dravanians.

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[SPOILERS not hidden in SPOILERS] 2.55 Before the Fall Part 2

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes