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V'aleera · **04-01-2015, 03:46 PM**

The only problem I have with Merlwyb's little speech is that it suddenly stops applying whenever Limsa is under threat.

Kage · **04-01-2015, 03:57 PM**

All of the city-states are self-serving really. They (Telediji) made it blatantly clear that the good relations between the Scions and Ishgard bode ill for Eorzea and I'm pretty sure that neither Kan-e-sanna or Merlwyb wanted to be dragged into what is most importantly, a domestic issue. Until it really becomes an issue that drags Limsa or Gridania in, they won't act for fear of being seen as trying to influence Ul'dahn politics (aiding a rebellion etc)

Cato · **04-01-2015, 04:00 PM**

(04-01-2015, 03:46 PM)Intaki Wrote: The only problem I have with Merlwyb's little speech is that it suddenly stops applying whenever Limsa is under threat.

To be fair that echoes the real world fairly well. I quite like it - it shows that the leaders are pretty selfish and that despite all the Scions had done to safe not only the city states but Eorzea as a whole they were essentially left to die.

Sounsyy · **04-01-2015, 04:00 PM**

(04-01-2015, 03:46 PM)Intaki Wrote: The only problem I have with Merlwyb's little speech is that it suddenly stops applying whenever Limsa is under threat.

I don't see where it doesn't apply?

Merlwyb never asks for help from any of her alliance nations. She asks for their cooperation on Allied issues, but never asks them to have a hand in helping any of their own problems. (with the exception of Ul'dah rebuilding everyone's aetherytes post-calamity) And Limsa's got plenty. War with the kobolds is still on-going (her own fault really) and has been going for nearly 10-15 years. War with the Sahagins. Unification of the pirates. Privateer/Maelstrom blockading Eorzea and in a constant struggle with Garlemald for naval superiority. Limsa's got a lot on its plate. And honestly... what's a navy gonna do in a fight against dragons? It doesn't make sense for them to join. Ul'dah on the other hand... has a 600 year history of its military being 100% mercenary. Doing mercenary ground work for Ishgard makes sense for them.

What she does do, is ask specifically for the Warrior of Light's help on Limsa-only issues. So the "Limsa first, Alliance second, others last" still completely applies. If Limsa's in danger, she puts Limsa first and puts the best man/woman on the job if she doesn't believe her own military can handle it. AKA WoL. That's her leadership prerogative. She doesn't ask Kan-E or Raubahn to follow said prerogative as well.

Kage · **04-01-2015, 04:08 PM**

Merlwyb also looks clearly upset when she's leaving. I think my sound was off or I was reading to fast to hear the voice acting (Q.Q) but it is not as if she is collected.

She is acting as a leader of her people first and foremost. All else is second. Even though she would -really- want to help her friend and ally, she can't just bust herself into Ul'dahn affairs. It would put her leadership into question someway somehow.

Meena · **04-01-2015, 04:15 PM**

Even those in Mor Dhona know...

Rowena: Aye, I've heard the rumors. Don't you worry your little head off, thoughâ”€I'll keep on doin' business with you. Rumors are words and words are wind. But coin is coin, and yours is as good as the next man's.

Zaiaku · **04-01-2015, 04:18 PM**

(03-31-2015, 01:10 PM)Lilithium Wrote: I screamed. And cried.

Now then, as for Nanamo's demise...think it should be case by case. Since there's undoubtedly some who might let it slip since no one is perfect. If nothing else it could just be treated as a heavy rumor that she died.

I cried.. too..

Kage · **04-01-2015, 04:19 PM**

Have more tears. I didn't notice until now.
[Image: lS02ayx.jpg]

I mean I knew the Goblet was totally in reference to shit happening in Ul'dah and all the markers pointed to something happening to Nanamo. Some of us even thought the CUL quests would save her from such a fate. But if all events for job/class quests happen in 2.0 to/maybe even thru 2.1 then... well it makes sense. OH GOD NANAMO T___T

K'nahli · **04-01-2015, 04:23 PM**

My problem is that I view Raubahn as the nation's second in command given that he is the military leader and the one only present alongside Nanamo when dealing with the alliance and foreign affairs. Even if you ignore the obvious corruption and conspiracy going on under the view that "we can't prove that at this very moment", their ally, whom is arguably at least the temporary replacement as state leader, has been severely wounded and is threatened with arrest by at least one of two groups....

Either the Brass Blades whom are supposedly employed in SERVICE of Ul'dah, and therefore under the supreme command of Raubahn if anyone at all.

Or the Crystal Braves whom, despite having presumably agreed to certain privileges upon their authority to act and have a presence within the three nations, are currently in absence of their commander, Alphinaud, and have no right to act upon taking such a serious and influential figure into custody without his approval.

With a mutiny having overtaken the Crystal Braves, any influence and contracts which they may have previously signed would surely have been rendered null and void. As such, they could quickly be deemed as enemies of all three states for their actions... and they certainly could not possibly have enough strength to pose any real threat to any of them.

This is all based on my views of the matter of course, but I can't think of anything that invalidates the matter.

V'aleera · **04-01-2015, 04:30 PM**

(04-01-2015, 04:00 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: I don't see where it doesn't apply?

When Merlwyb needs help defending Limsa, she asks the Scions and the Scions come to help.

When the Scions need help defending Ishgard, they ask Merlwyb and suddenly she's got better things to do.

Kage · **04-01-2015, 04:34 PM**

I'm not entirely sure of real world politics and laws and whatnot, but this is my take on it and considering not all games have knowledgables... Â Anyway, it is not smart at all politically to thrust your country into another country's matters. Not in the situation as it happens. They cannot just jump into foreign matters. As far as what is on the front, Raubahn pulled steel on fellow Syndicate which is apparently forbidden. They would be aiding a criminal suspect. The Ul'dahns are the ones dealing with the problems of their own domestics.

A mutiny of a foreign group from someone -under suspicions of conspiring to commit regicide- to work WITH the ruling law enforcers? Not uncommon. The Crystal Braves just worked themselves out from under the thumb of sorcerous people (echo!) who had conspired to commit regicide!

Raubahn is -not- in charge of the Brass Blades. They are under Lolorito's employ and coin.

(04-01-2015, 04:30 PM)Intaki Wrote:
(04-01-2015, 04:00 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: I don't see where it doesn't apply?
When Merlwyb needs help defending Limsa, she asks the Scions and the Scions come to help.

When the Scions need help defending Ishgard, they ask Merlwyb and suddenly she's got better things to do.

Same thing said with the Ishgardians.

K'nahli · **04-01-2015, 04:34 PM**

(04-01-2015, 04:30 PM)Intaki Wrote:
(04-01-2015, 04:00 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: I don't see where it doesn't apply?
When Merlwyb needs help defending Limsa, she asks the Scions and the Scions come to help.

When the Scions need help defending Ishgard, they ask Merlwyb and suddenly she's got better things to do.

To be fair, primals are a threat to everyone when they appear - only difference is that the nation in which they are summoned are faced with an immediate threat. The Scions' entire MO is to fight against the primal threat in any case. It is not in any of the three nations' prerogative to aid a nation outside of the alliance.

(04-01-2015, 04:34 PM)Kage Wrote: Raubahn is -not- in charge of the Brass Blades. They are under Lolorito's employ and coin.

I'm assuming you mean that he genuinely funds the entire, non-Grand Company side of the city's security and not just that this particular group, like many, were paid off?

Aduu Avagnar · **04-01-2015, 04:37 PM**

(04-01-2015, 04:23 PM)K Wrote: Either the Brass Blades whom are supposedly employed in SERVICE of Ul'dah, and therefore under the supreme command of Raubahn if anyone at all.

Or the Crystal Braves whom, despite having presumably agreed to certain privileges upon their authority to act and have a presence within the three nations, are currently in absence of their commander, Alphinaud, and have no right to act upon taking such a serious and influential figure into custody without his approval.

Brass blades are employed by Lolorito, not Ul'dah. He simply has them perform the acts of peacekeeping, albeit in a corrupt way. But they take their cues from him, not the Syndicate.

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only the 1st and 3rd are there presently, and are under the influence of Teledji Adelejdi again, taking their cues from him, not Alphinaud.

V'aleera · **04-01-2015, 04:39 PM**

I'm not talking about aiding Ishgard, I'm talking about aiding the Scions. Ishgard is incidental to the main point: Limsa was more than happy to receive the aid of the Scions, but when the time came to return the favor(s) they bailed out.

In any case, the dismantlement of the Scions will hopefully be a nice rude awakening for Gridania, Limsa, and Ul'dah; with no one to pull their asses out of the fire anymore they might have to actually put effort into their mutual alliances.

Zyrusticae · **04-01-2015, 04:39 PM**

(04-01-2015, 04:30 PM)Intaki Wrote: When Merlwyb needs help defending Limsa, she asks the Scions and the Scions come to help.

When the Scions need help defending Ishgard, they ask Merlwyb and suddenly she's got better things to do.

This does not contradict her words whatsoever.

Limsa first, Alliance second, everyone else last. Scions fall under the banner of "everyone else", not the Alliance - they're not even a part of any nation, and are not nearly large or powerful enough to qualify as a member nation of the alliance themselves. As such, they fall under 'last priority'.

Not to mention the obvious problems with butting into foreign affairs, as pointed out by others previously.

That being said... it's still probably a really dumb decision, considering how important they are to containing the Primal threat. One can only wonder how things go with Bismarck and the like down the line.

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[SPOILERS not hidden in SPOILERS] 2.55 Before the Fall Part 2

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