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Milly · **04-16-2015, 10:31 AM**

Thanks for the explanation, Gegenji, Unamed Mercenery and Castille.

I guess it just all rotates back to what I said earlier in the thread. Roleplaying is a bit of a paradox because if we all wanted our stories to 'gel' we'd all have to be super bland.

If unlocking Dragoon is like some of the other classes and most quests (I'm familiar with) then it's something about how you are ~~special and chosen, which obviously is not going to make sense when there are 1000's of other people doing the same quest and being 'special' in the same way. So, naturally, most people forgo the in-game reasoning and what you're left with is... something that is hard to explain.

Really the conclusion is Q:'Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations?' A: Because the game's concept is to make you special, from the word 'go' with you being the WoL - which just naturally conflicts with the concept of group roleplay.

((interestingly this makes me remember I read someone say once they actually preferred 1.0 because their character was more 'bland' which made roleplaying easier. At the time I didn't understand but after being in this community for a while I can.. I can totally understand that now, lol))

Warren Castille · **04-16-2015, 10:41 AM**

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **04-16-2015, 10:45 AM**

(04-16-2015, 10:31 AM)Milly Wrote: I guess it just all rotates back to what I said earlier in the thread. Roleplaying is a bit of a paradox because if we all wanted our stories to 'gel' we'd all have to be super bland.

Exactly this! There's no way to be 100% compatible with 100% of the community. It's just not simply possible, given RP styles, limits, etc. Instead, I know I'll try to find pople who share my ideas and have similar limits or scope of limits in RP.

As others have stated in the thread previously, RP isn't 100% combat. But it is an important part of our characters. Like the real world, a person's strengths and weaknesses shape their character. Brute strength can only get one so far. Unimaginable experience means nothing if one can't even pick up their weapon. All the knowledge in the world is useless if it can't be applied. I think the same goes with our characters.

Lekka Meyren · **04-16-2015, 10:46 AM**

(04-16-2015, 10:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

Yeah the level of discrimination in the ishgardian armed forces is really awful.

Warren Castille · **04-16-2015, 10:50 AM**

(04-16-2015, 10:46 AM)Lekka Meyren Wrote:
(04-16-2015, 10:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

Yeah the level of discrimination in the ishgardian armed forces is really awful.

It is! It's hardly diverse at all. And those are just (presumably?) Temple Knights. They're not even on the level of prestige that a Dragoon (presumably) would have.

Is it just rendering one model two hundred times for hardware reasons? Or is this a genuine assessment of higher-ranked forces? Next time, on Dragon Ball Z We just don't know until Heavensward. Right now, it looks unlikely for non-elezen to rise up in the ranks that high.

...maybe!

Gegenji · **04-16-2015, 10:51 AM**

(04-16-2015, 10:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

Alternately: count how many of them don't have elf ears deforming their little chain helms. I'm pretty sure ALL those soldiers are Elezen. Which could be for reasons ranging from Elezen being the only ones to be allowed in as the See's main guard, the tallest being at the front and the shortest being at the back, or just because they copy-and-pasted the same model to save on time and/or also apply a level of artistic uniformity.

... As Warren was quick to point out while I was typing this up after watching the clip. Laugh

McBeefâ„¢ · **04-16-2015, 10:52 AM**

(04-16-2015, 10:46 AM)Lekka Meyren Wrote:
(04-16-2015, 10:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

Yeah the level of discrimination in the ishgardian armed forces is really awful.

Well that is not really indicative. Armies since the dawn of time have often used their tallest members for ceremonies, parades, etc.

The US army does it too, all the tallest people are in the front of a formation, so it looks more imposing when It marches by.

Ishgard might have had a "You must be this tall to be in the ominous foreshadowing cutscene ceremony."

V'aleera · **04-16-2015, 11:04 AM**

(04-16-2015, 10:50 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Right now, it looks unlikely for non-elezen to rise up in the ranks that high.

...maybe!

Lucia the Radiant would have a word about that.

Warren Castille · **04-16-2015, 11:08 AM**

(04-16-2015, 11:04 AM)Intaki Wrote:
(04-16-2015, 10:50 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Right now, it looks unlikely for non-elezen to rise up in the ranks that high.

...maybe!
Lucia the Radiant would have a word about that.

unlikely=impossible

Milly · **04-16-2015, 11:11 AM**

(04-16-2015, 11:04 AM)Intaki Wrote:
(04-16-2015, 10:50 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Right now, it looks unlikely for non-elezen to rise up in the ranks that high.

...maybe!
Lucia the Radiant would have a word about that.

I've literally only just noticed Lucia is Hyur after reading this. Her proportions/model definitely seem to be Elezen other than the ears, so that's weird.

Leanne · **04-16-2015, 11:12 AM**

Gotta remember too that Square could have gone as well the lazy route, copy pasted the same model a hundred times, and said "Job well done!"

V'aleera · **04-16-2015, 11:14 AM**

(04-16-2015, 11:11 AM)Milly Wrote: I've literally only just noticed Lucia is Hyur after reading this. Her proportions/model definitely seem to be Elezen other than the ears, so that's weird.

She is in all likelihood a pureblood Garlean. Some screenshots show her having the third eye, and as I recall Livia sas Junius was also a Garlean woman whose body was the elezen model.

Going back to the Temple Knights in general: it's also important to remember that elezen likely make up an extreme majority or plurality of Ishgardian society. Seeing them in vast numbers anywhere is more indicative of their nation's demographics than anything (though I'm not contesting that discrimination would exist in the military).

Warren Castille · **04-16-2015, 11:21 AM**

(04-16-2015, 11:14 AM)Intaki Wrote: Going back to the Temple Knights in general: it's also important to remember that elezen likely make up an extreme majority or plurality of Ishgardian society. Seeing them in vast numbers anywhere is more indicative of their nation's demographics than anything (though I'm not contesting that discrimination would exist in the military).

I agree. I'm just of the opinion that if they're that racist restricted on who can be a lowly Temple Guard, then they're more likely to be more racist on who is allowed to be one of the legendary, widely-known icons of Ishgard as a nation.

That said, still expecting a prominent miqo'te DRG in the 3.0 story just to fuck with us.

As an aside: The Heavensward trailer dragoons are, to my memory and eyesight, all elezen, or questionably hyur. If anyone can show me otherwise, I'd legitimately welcome that. It would help this discussion immensely.

Tiergan · **04-16-2015, 11:22 AM**

(04-16-2015, 06:29 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: While I like plausibility in my roleplay and I, of course, like to be lore compliant, honestly if it's within the bounds of lore and well explained I probably won't mind.

Here's the thing for me:

"I'm a Miqote Dragoon because <Nice, well thought out backstory using lore and bending it where necessary in order to reach a satisfying character one would like to play>" I won't even bat an eye.

"I'm a Miqote Dragoon for just... uhh... cuz." Will make me dubious of your character but will still not make me not roleplay with you.

I like plausibility for ME personally - my characters are deeply rooted in what could and could not be possible, taking rather ordinary, average characters and thrusting them into the extraordinary. That's really fun and interesting -for me-.

I don't expect that to be fun and interesting for all people. As long as you aren't lore breaking, and have a well thought out character, the only thing that's going to matter to me is if your Miqote Dragoon is actually just... interesting to talk to.

And that's my take on it.

I was about to comment on this myself before I saw you did it already.

I feel like there is a big difference between a roleplayer who thought out a plausible, detailed narrative on why/how their miqo'te Ishgardian wound up where they are and a roleplayer who just goes "Well, I really like miqo'te and I've been wanting to be a dragoon for forever because they're my favorite class so that's the way it is."

Same with any other lore detail of something rare/odd/potentially implausible that I won't explicitly mention in fear of triggering another 10 page long lore debate. :V

Also, as an aside - I saw someone talk about miqo'te lancers. I don't think a miqo'te lancer (especially a non-ishgardian one) is as big an issue as Gridania, Ishgard, and even Ala Mhigo have divisions of troops with lances. Your cat basically could have picked it up from anything between the Lancer's guild in Gridania to an exiled Ishgardian knight hanging around the Shroud to an old Ala Mhigan refugee who was part of the Lancer division and uses a longspear.

Dragoon is the area where it gets dicey because its got so much importance placed upon it that some people feel Ishgard's infamous xenophobia would prevent non-elezen from ever reaching that far up.

Melkire · **04-16-2015, 11:48 AM**

Do we have any confirmation of non-elezen and non-hyur dragoons yet in the canon? I'm honestly curious. Hyur we know because of Alberic.

EDIT: Discounting the main character of course.

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