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Milly · **04-17-2015, 09:20 AM**

(04-17-2015, 06:27 AM)Tiergan Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 06:19 AM)Sin Wrote: I suck at quoting stuff, but this in response to Milly's statement about the lack of racism in Eorzea to the best of their knowledge.

In Gridania, outside of the Lancer's guild there's a trio of Elezen having a conversation that contradicts your reality of the in-game world. A wood wailer is chewing out another gentleman for some transgression. His partner states "Damnable Duskwights!" As the duskwight apologizes, and assures the two Wailers it won't occur again.

That's just one example off the top of my head though, there's quite a few other examples out there about race-relations, and racism. Let's see, the interracial gay couple of the Wanderer's Palace unlock quest that are looked down on more for being interracial than being homosexual. (An interesting look at the realm's culture.)

Duskwight DEFINITELY face a lot of prejudice in Gridania. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, a lot of them actually left for Ishgard because it was actually way better for them there than in Gridania. There's also a story in the game where a Duskwight Lancer steals something with two Wildwood Lancers. Eventually something happens that makes the Duskwight feel compelled to confess what they did. His two Wildwood partners agreed that they would confess as well - but when the time came, they betrayed him and let him take the fall for everything. After that, the lancers all remarked something to the effect of "Of course, it was the Duskwight. We should have known." (It might actually even be the NPCs you're talking about Sin.)

Moon Keepers face some problems as well - mainly because there's a lot of Moon Keeper poachers in the Shroud that give Gridanian Moon Keepers a hard time convincing other Gridanians that they're not like the poachers in the forest.

Good point! So we do see... inter-clan racism but not... inter-race racism? I'm probably not making sense any more. Haha. I'm not surprised I missed that since I wouldn't say I 'hate' Gridania but I really don't enjoy it there. Likewise, Mi'qote don't interest me so paid little attention to their interactions etc. I've probably missed a fair bit of stuff because of that.

Kage · **04-17-2015, 09:23 AM**

(04-17-2015, 09:20 AM)Milly Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 06:27 AM)Tiergan Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 06:19 AM)Sin Wrote: I suck at quoting stuff, but this in response to Milly's statement about the lack of racism in Eorzea to the best of their knowledge.

In Gridania, outside of the Lancer's guild there's a trio of Elezen having a conversation that contradicts your reality of the in-game world. A wood wailer is chewing out another gentleman for some transgression. His partner states "Damnable Duskwights!" As the duskwight apologizes, and assures the two Wailers it won't occur again.

That's just one example off the top of my head though, there's quite a few other examples out there about race-relations, and racism. Let's see, the interracial gay couple of the Wanderer's Palace unlock quest that are looked down on more for being interracial than being homosexual. (An interesting look at the realm's culture.)

Duskwight DEFINITELY face a lot of prejudice in Gridania. Â As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, a lot of them actually left for Ishgard because it was actually way better for them there than in Gridania. Â There's also a story in the game where a Duskwight Lancer steals something with two Wildwood Lancers. Â Eventually something happens that makes the Duskwight feel compelled to confess what they did. Â His two Wildwood partners agreed that they would confess as well - but when the time came, they betrayed him and let him take the fall for everything. Â After that, the lancers all remarked something to the effect of "Of course, it was the Duskwight. We should have known." Â (It might actually even be the NPCs you're talking about Sin.)

Moon Keepers face some problems as well - mainly because there's a lot of Moon Keeper poachers in the Shroud that give Gridanian Moon Keepers a hard time convincing other Gridanians that they're not like the poachers in the forest.

Good point! So we do see... inter-clan racism but not... inter-race racism? I'm probably not making sense any more. Haha. I'm not surprised I missed that since I wouldn't say I 'hate' Gridania but I really don't enjoy it there. Likewise, Mi'qote don't interest me so paid little attention to their interactions etc. I've probably missed a fair bit of stuff because of that.

Hyur-Elezen racial relations are strained to say the least according to the Vegas FanFest lore panel. They'd been at war constantly.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **04-17-2015, 09:45 AM**

(04-17-2015, 09:20 AM)Milly Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 06:27 AM)Tiergan Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 06:19 AM)Sin Wrote: I suck at quoting stuff, but this in response to Milly's statement about the lack of racism in Eorzea to the best of their knowledge.

In Gridania, outside of the Lancer's guild there's a trio of Elezen having a conversation that contradicts your reality of the in-game world. A wood wailer is chewing out another gentleman for some transgression. His partner states "Damnable Duskwights!" As the duskwight apologizes, and assures the two Wailers it won't occur again.

That's just one example off the top of my head though, there's quite a few other examples out there about race-relations, and racism. Let's see, the interracial gay couple of the Wanderer's Palace unlock quest that are looked down on more for being interracial than being homosexual. (An interesting look at the realm's culture.)

Duskwight DEFINITELY face a lot of prejudice in Gridania. Â As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, a lot of them actually left for Ishgard because it was actually way better for them there than in Gridania. Â There's also a story in the game where a Duskwight Lancer steals something with two Wildwood Lancers. Â Eventually something happens that makes the Duskwight feel compelled to confess what they did. Â His two Wildwood partners agreed that they would confess as well - but when the time came, they betrayed him and let him take the fall for everything. Â After that, the lancers all remarked something to the effect of "Of course, it was the Duskwight. We should have known." Â (It might actually even be the NPCs you're talking about Sin.)

Moon Keepers face some problems as well - mainly because there's a lot of Moon Keeper poachers in the Shroud that give Gridanian Moon Keepers a hard time convincing other Gridanians that they're not like the poachers in the forest.

Good point! So we do see... inter-clan racism but not... inter-race racism? I'm probably not making sense any more. Haha. I'm not surprised I missed that since I wouldn't say I 'hate' Gridania but I really don't enjoy it there. Likewise, Mi'qote don't interest me so paid little attention to their interactions etc. I've probably missed a fair bit of stuff because of that.

If you haven't, the Archer questline in Gridania has racism. Xenophobic Wildwood Elezen who hates on Miqo'te (I think she was a Keeper because I don't remember seeing a tribal prefix).

TheLastCandle · **04-17-2015, 12:08 PM**

(04-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: If you haven't, the Archer questline in Gridania has racism. Xenophobic Wildwood Elezen who hates on Miqo'te (I think she was a Keeper because I don't remember seeing a tribal prefix).

He also expresses prejudice towards the main character as an "outsider," regardless of race.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **04-17-2015, 12:13 PM**

(04-17-2015, 12:08 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: If you haven't, the Archer questline in Gridania has racism. Xenophobic Wildwood Elezen who hates on Miqo'te (I think she was a Keeper because I don't remember seeing a tribal prefix).

He also expresses prejudice towards the main character as an "outsider," regardless of race.

Well, yes. Gridania was (and likely still partly is) xenophobic as well. One can be racist and xenophobic at the same time. The way that certain elezen NPC treated the miqo'te NPC is one of probably more examples. He doesn't like outsider adventurers in "his" city, but he hates even more that there are miqo'te poachers abouts.

TheLastCandle · **04-17-2015, 12:16 PM**

(04-17-2015, 12:13 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 12:08 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: If you haven't, the Archer questline in Gridania has racism. Xenophobic Wildwood Elezen who hates on Miqo'te (I think she was a Keeper because I don't remember seeing a tribal prefix).

He also expresses prejudice towards the main character as an "outsider," regardless of race.

Well, yes. Gridania was (and likely still partly is) xenophobic as well. One can be racist and xenophobic at the same time. The way that certain elezen NPC treated the miqo'te NPC is one of probably more examples. He doesn't like outsider adventurers in "his" city, but he hates even more that there are miqo'te poachers abouts.

I wasn't disagreeing.

Tiergan · **04-17-2015, 12:20 PM**

(04-17-2015, 12:13 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 12:08 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: If you haven't, the Archer questline in Gridania has racism. Xenophobic Wildwood Elezen who hates on Miqo'te (I think she was a Keeper because I don't remember seeing a tribal prefix).

He also expresses prejudice towards the main character as an "outsider," regardless of race.

Well, yes. Gridania was (and likely still partly is) xenophobic as well. One can be racist and xenophobic at the same time. The way that certain elezen NPC treated the miqo'te NPC is one of probably more examples. He doesn't like outsider adventurers in "his" city, but he hates even more that there are miqo'te poachers abouts.

I think Yves was just saying "Yeah, that guy is pretty prejudiced. He even calls you 'outsider' along WITH being racist."

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **04-17-2015, 12:27 PM**

(04-17-2015, 12:16 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 12:13 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 12:08 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: If you haven't, the Archer questline in Gridania has racism. Xenophobic Wildwood Elezen who hates on Miqo'te (I think she was a Keeper because I don't remember seeing a tribal prefix).

He also expresses prejudice towards the main character as an "outsider," regardless of race.

Well, yes. Gridania was (and likely still partly is) xenophobic as well. One can be racist and xenophobic at the same time. The way that certain elezen NPC treated the miqo'te NPC is one of probably more examples. He doesn't like outsider adventurers in "his" city, but he hates even more that there are miqo'te poachers abouts.

I wasn't disagreeing.

(04-17-2015, 12:20 PM)Tiergan Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 12:13 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 12:08 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: If you haven't, the Archer questline in Gridania has racism. Xenophobic Wildwood Elezen who hates on Miqo'te (I think she was a Keeper because I don't remember seeing a tribal prefix).

He also expresses prejudice towards the main character as an "outsider," regardless of race.

Well, yes. Gridania was (and likely still partly is) xenophobic as well. One can be racist and xenophobic at the same time. The way that certain elezen NPC treated the miqo'te NPC is one of probably more examples. He doesn't like outsider adventurers in "his" city, but he hates even more that there are miqo'te poachers abouts.

I think Yves was just saying "Yeah, that guy is pretty prejudiced. He even calls you 'outsider' along WITH being racist."

This is a perfect example of not being able to get tone from text. I completely misinterpreted it as disagreement. /sorry

Marisa · **04-17-2015, 01:31 PM**

So we've basically established that Gridania should be the state known for hateful racism, not Ishgard.

Gegenji · **04-17-2015, 01:32 PM**

(04-17-2015, 01:31 PM)Ryoko Wrote: So we've basically established that Gridania should be the state known for hateful racism, not Ishgard.

There's nothing keeping multiple states from being racist. Heck, they could ALL be racist!

Melkire · **04-17-2015, 01:45 PM**

What Gengenji said. How does Gridania being known for racism somehow preclude Ishgard from being likewise?

Marisa · **04-17-2015, 01:53 PM**

(04-17-2015, 01:45 PM)Melkire Wrote: What Gengenji said. How does Gridania being known for racism somehow preclude Ishgard from being likewise?

But you're all ignoring the part where Ishgard, to my knowledge, has never expressed any racism. Everyone just assumed they were racist without any real evidence.

Gegenji · **04-17-2015, 01:58 PM**

(04-17-2015, 01:53 PM)Ryoko Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 01:45 PM)Melkire Wrote: What Gengenji said. How does Gridania being known for racism somehow preclude Ishgard from being likewise?
But you're all ignoring the part where Ishgard, to my knowledge, has never expressed any racism. Everyone just assumed they were racist without any real evidence.

I'm not saying they are racist, I'm just saying there's nothing place saying that they can't be. After all, considering what's said on the lore panels... EVERY race is racist to some degree to the other races. And even between the clans in a couple cases (see "Highlander superiority" and the aforementioned Wildwood/Duskwight conflict).

We do know that Ishgard is xenophobic - they dislike those not from Ishgard. Furthermore, most of the predominant Houses seem to be Elezen, as well as the Holy See himself. This could be simply a matter of demographics, sure, but you can't discount the idea that there could be a belief that the Elezen are the "truer" Ishgardians and thus the ones in such stations. Or just a practice where Elezens are given more consideration than the others. It's not blatant, segregated bathrooms racism... but it's still racism.

Ultimately, we really won't know until those gates are open and we get a better look at Ishgard and its people.

Aya · **04-17-2015, 02:17 PM**

(04-17-2015, 01:53 PM)Ryoko Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 01:45 PM)Melkire Wrote: What Gengenji said. How does Gridania being known for racism somehow preclude Ishgard from being likewise?
But you're all ignoring the part where Ishgard, to my knowledge, has never expressed any racism. Everyone just assumed they were racist without any real evidence.

Rampant well-known xenophobia combined with a preference for the repressive, and a homogenous racial composition of the upper echelon of their society makes this less a logical leap, and more of a slight logical shuffling forward of the feet.

Khadan · **04-17-2015, 02:20 PM**

Are we shifting to a discussion on socio-political issues now?Â

Well in light of my previous post on population which was largely ignored because data is hard I'll just jump in on this segue and say that, much like a population census, if you want to actually make a claim for the existence of cultural racism then you need examples. Like perhaps a majority of the NPC's saying "Man Miqo'te are lame and I don't like them because reasons" or "Lalafell are popatos and creepy and we should boil em, mash em, and stick em in a stew" or whatnot. Systematic racism is only 'systematic' when the majority of the people in said system feel the same way. Unlike tumblr racism where it exists because muh feelz and someone on a blog said so.

Provide data to back up your claims/assertions and from there we proceed. =)

btw Gridania is pretty effing racist.

Also Ul'Dah against Ala Mhigans.

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Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations

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