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ArmachiA · **05-08-2015, 05:16 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:07 AM)KitKat Wrote: Again, my point stands. Why is it all right for these people to get to have what they want by going about it differently than the quests but White Mages cannot? All you're trying to do here is police how this "community" plays.

By the way, these devs that you hold as the so-called "Word of God" have also explicitly stated that other groups do have access to White Magic. Are we disregarding that?

I'm not policing anything. You're policing me by telling me I have to accept a White Mage when I don't believe it's canonically appropriate. They can play a White Mage if they like, I do not have to engage with them if they do. This game doesn't revolve around me, there are plenty of Roleplayers who will accept a White Mage, and there are PLENTY who won't either.

And yes they have but they said they would explain later, so until they do it's not even something in my eyes yet. When the devs come in and explain how to be a White Mage, I will be open to White Mages if they follow what the devs have laid out. It's not hard.

Aduu Avagnar · **05-08-2015, 05:16 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:06 AM)Verilys Wrote:
(05-08-2015, 04:55 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Again, Lore =! Game mechanics.

They've came out and said the Lightening Event wasn't Canon. There's no such thing as the Echo bonus in lore, etc etc. The devs are the Word of God. They write the lore, they tell us what to follow. It's that simple.

I'm typically cautious of what devs say in off-the-cuff situations, such as panels. It depends on context. I'll need to check out the live recording of where that particular quote from White Mages comes from to say anything about that one in particular, so I won't reference that in particular!

However, devs (even lore devs) will often respond from a mechanical point of view and the gameplay's overall story narrative, rather than from the lens of lore as roleplayers tend to see it. So, I'm really, really wary of saying that they're the word of god with absolute certainty. They tend to think of the game AS that main story arc; not the rest of the world, not the side characters, the people who are making their quiet living in amongst all the other stuff going on.

But as I mentioned earlier, I'm also new. So, I don't know how reliable Fernehalwes is. Other people would have a better perspective there.

[youtube]SvNpO4gy_Tg[/youtube]

thats the video, should be set to the right location as well, if not its at around 35:30.

Fernewhales is a member of the Localisation team, and is pretty much the underling of the head lore guy, who I have never seen make an appearance.

Blue · **05-08-2015, 05:21 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:06 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: You keep conflating Game mechanics with world lore. From the WoL POV we can do pretty much anything. But we're just ordinary people. We aren't PLAYING a WoL ( to which the devs also stated, there is only one of). We're actually playing it EXACTLY the way the devs want us too, that there's only one WoL somewhere out there. The devs said it was your character specifically or it was derplander if you choose to disregard it.

They said there is only one white mage (you), but there isn't just one Warrior of Light.
The Warriors of Light are them who all received Hydaelyn's Call. Your character only happens to be the one that the "camera" follows and of whom the story is told.

Let's take a look at who received the Call...

[Image: 54cee8c522c39258738ac29a.jpg]

And to go back to white mage, just as there can be deliberate, arbitrary changes to your character's origins, there can be deliberate, arbitrary changes to how the white mage was come to be. It's called bending lore, not breaking it, and it is very well allowed by who should care (the characters involved, and you are not it).

I'm going to give the example of how the WHMs in our group came to be:
The original quest dialogue says that the Quieting has to be performed by three white mages, but the Hedgetree decides that you are to be the third white mage, to help the two padjals to perform the ritual.

How we did it (as we had three conjurers at the time wanting to become white mages):
The hedgetree decided no padjal was to take place in the Quieting this time. So Raya-O-Senna and her brother are to aid the three receivers of the soul stones to learn white magic and perform the quieting in their stead.

And for any other wanna-be white mage that may step forward in our group, we will simply ICly have another Quieting ritual occur. The lore of the Quieting is not disrupted, the lore of how the soul stone is obtained is not disrupted. And we are all happy.

It's as easy as as it is "My character was not from a foreign land. He was born in Ul'dah.".

Why is it any different? And what role do you, outside RPer who isn't even involved in all this, have to decide what is here allowed to be made? I don't think any white mage is coming to you to tell you of the story of their coming-to-be. And if you ask them knowing it will likely annoy you because you think the job quests have no lore contribution whatsoever but are "just mechanics", then well, you are the one punching the bush of thorns, my friend.

Gone. · **05-08-2015, 05:21 AM**

I don't even know why we're still arguing this, especially in this thread of all places.

Need I remind everyone that the dialog in the first WHM quest explicitly says chosen few, not chosen one? To keep denying that players can't be a white mage is being stubborn for the sake of stubborn and derailing a discussion way, way off course isn't going to change that.

Uncommon, secretive... no doubt. But they do exist, they're nothing particularly special in the grand scheme of all things Eorzean and frankly the concept is not deserving of the constant public flogging as if it were some sort of ultimate Mary Sue.

You know, as if that can't happen with any of the other iconic jobs.

KitKat · **05-08-2015, 05:21 AM**

It's all about plausibility. Why are we so eager to cry foul because someone has fun doing something entirely harmless? Is it plausible that one of these groups has actually succeeded behind the scenes? Of course it is. You're just unwilling to allow that because "my precious dev godlore". Is it not also possible that other groups aside from the unnamed one the devs mentioned have also figured out how to do it? The entire point of roleplay is to tell an interesting story. By stonewalling anything -plausible- because you would rather put your fingers in your ears and say "la la la I can't hear you" is nothing short of childish. It's like taking your basketball home so other kids can't play.

We should stop focusing on the outside of the game and focus on the community and the inside of the game. Seriously. There's zero reason why everyone cannot get along and stop being dicks to each other (disclaimer: I am fully aware that there are outliers on either side, as I mentioned in an earlier post. This is meant for those of us who are actually trying to build a community).

ArmachiA · **05-08-2015, 05:24 AM**

You may want to watch that video that Nako just posted because it actually says there is only one.

The WoL is NOT the chosen of Hydaelyn that your referring to.

ArmachiA · **05-08-2015, 05:27 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:21 AM)KitKat Wrote: It's all about plausibility. Why are we so eager to cry foul because someone has fun doing something entirely harmless? Is it plausible that one of these groups has actually succeeded behind the scenes? Of course it is. You're just unwilling to allow that because "my precious dev godlore". Is it not also possible that other groups aside from the unnamed one the devs mentioned have also figured out how to do it? The entire point of roleplay is to tell an interesting story. By stonewalling anything -plausible- because you would rather put your fingers in your ears and say "la la la I can't hear you" is nothing short of childish. It's like taking your basketball home so other kids can't play.

We should stop focusing on the outside of the game and focus on the community and the inside of the game. Seriously. There's zero reason why everyone cannot get along and stop being dicks to each other (disclaimer: I am fully aware that there are outliers on either side, as I mentioned in an earlier post. This is meant for those of us who are actually trying to build a community).

There is already a community. I don't see how "I don't believe in WHMs so if you want to play one thats fine, but I'll be over here" is a dick move at all? You're basically telling me I have to accept your point of view because of... reasons. I mean, I'm not doing that to you at all? I'm saying people can play WHMs if they want, but I don't have to accept it in my roleplay. I'm not being a dick to you, I'm being very nice. But you want all around acceptance that isn't possible with tons of people. We all believe different things and that's okay.

Quit telling me I have to see your side because of some community. I don't have to. Stop trying to force it on me.

Aduu Avagnar · **05-08-2015, 05:29 AM**

agian. I am all for plausability. Please, cover me in your rich, creamy plausability goodness. I am going to roll with that.

But I reserve my right to not roleplay with someone who has not even thought about the plausability of the situation... As has been stated from the start.

Just as Armachia is perfectly entitled to not RP with someone whose lore interpretation does not mesh with hers... as she has been saying.

neither of us have stated: YOU CAN'T BE A WHITE MAGE! STOP ROLEPLAYING A WHITEMAGE!

we have simply stated that we will choose not to roleplay with such (I am more willing to engage in it if the premise is plausible, however).

Again, I wish to re-iterate it. As it appears to have been missed in the 'YOUR STEPPING ON MAH ARPEES' feefee's.

You are entitled to RP whatever concept you choose, with whoever chooses to RP with you. However, other people are equally as entitled to not RP with you because the concept of what you are doing does not mesh with theirs.

please just repeat that about 10 times before going on a rant about it....

KitKat · **05-08-2015, 05:33 AM**

I'm simply telling you that I'm trying to be openminded and reasonable to -everyone- who is trying to play. You're trying to corner off a section of the playerbase and I feel that is very wrong and doesn't actually have to be like that.

All around acceptance won't happen so long as people are too stubborn to let go of their prejudices. I mean, for Dev's sake, in the video Nako linked, he specifically mentioned that there are 2.5 million warriors of light.

The fighting on these forums clearly indicates that there is no real community. It is full of clusters of people who agree with each other and shun everyone else.

Edit to add: I'm not ranting, Nako. I'm discussing. I don't even have a dog in this fight. I'm a Freedom Fighter.

ArmachiA · **05-08-2015, 05:35 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:29 AM)Nakoli Chalahko Wrote: agian. I am all for plausability. Please, cover me in your rich, creamy plausability goodness. I am going to roll with that.

But I reserve my right to not roleplay with someone who has not even thought about the plausability of the situation... As has been stated from the start.

Just as Armachia is perfectly entitled to not RP with someone whose lore interpretation does not mesh with hers... as she has been saying.

neither of us have stated: YOU CAN'T BE A WHITE MAGE! STOP ROLEPLAYING A WHITEMAGE!

we have simply stated that we will choose not to roleplay with such (I am more willing to engage in it if the premise is plausible, however).

Again, I wish to re-iterate it. As it appears to have been missed in the 'YOUR STEPPING ON MAH ARPEES' feefee's.

You are entitled to RP whatever concept you choose, with whoever chooses to RP with you. However, other people are equally as entitled to not RP with you because the concept of what you are doing does not mesh with theirs.

please just repeat that about 10 times before going on a rant about it....

Jesus Christ, Yes. I've said it like 80 times at this point. Not once have I said stop playing one, but I have been in turn told I have to accept it. I hardly think thats fair.

Look, not all of us are going to agree on our RP. People have left my FC because they felt the Roleplay was too dark, and THAT'S FINE. They wanted a happier, less dramatic storyline and our RP didn't add up. It's okay. Some of those people are even still in our OOC ls because they liked us enough oocly to stay in contact!

I'm certainly not going to force them into our Grimdark story lines. They need to go find their own happiness.

And he said there was 2.5 million Warriors of Light Mechanically speaking, but STORY WISE there's only one.

Aduu Avagnar · **05-08-2015, 05:36 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:33 AM)KitKat Wrote: I'm simply telling you that I'm trying to be openminded and reasonable to -everyone- who is trying to play. You're trying to corner off a section of the playerbase and I feel that is very wrong and doesn't actually have to be like that.

All around acceptance won't happen so long as people are too stubborn to let go of their prejudices. I mean, for Dev's sake, in the video Nako linked, he specifically mentioned that there are 2.5 million warriors of light.

The fighting on these forums clearly indicates that there is no real community. It is full of clusters of people who agree with each other and shun everyone else.

again, we are not cornering off anyone but ourselves. If anything, we are restricting our own RP partners.

please read the part in bold again.

I would also like to point out that yes, there are 2.5 millions of light, but 2.5 million people didnt jump up and down on the wreckage of teh Ultima weapon, 2.5 million people didn't attend the party thrown to allow you the knowledge to go and kick Titan in his battle thong.

I'll see if I can find it, it may be that video, it may be another resource, but he states, in regards to the people found in the opening video. If you choose to RP the MSQ then you are one of those 5. If you don't they did it.

The issue with the title Warrior of Light is that it means several things. It refers to the adventurers at the battle of Cartenau, and it also refers to the people blessed by Hydaelyn, the two are not one and the same.

Blue · **05-08-2015, 05:41 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:33 AM)KitKat Wrote: I'm simply telling you that I'm trying to be openminded and reasonable to -everyone- who is trying to play. You're trying to corner off a section of the playerbase and I feel that is very wrong and doesn't actually have to be like that.

All around acceptance won't happen so long as people are too stubborn to let go of their prejudices. I mean, for Dev's sake, in the video Nako linked, he specifically mentioned that there are 2.5 million warriors of light.

The fighting on these forums clearly indicates that there is no real community. It is full of clusters of people who agree with each other and shun everyone else.

All right, first off I want to take... half a step back, because I was writing that post before I could get to see that video (it was a long post), I had watched it live during the festival and I only remembered the white mage part.

However, it is only half a step, because if 1.0's warriors of light are addressed as plural, I don't see why there should only be one left in ARR. But maybe it's becayse "Warrior of Light" is more a title than a "category of people" in this case. I think I remember the title being given to you at the end of 2.0, so that's probably it. I do believe however that the others who appear in Hydaelyn's Call cutscene have the same powers and duties you were tasked with (I mean.. Hydaelyn WAS talking to all of them after all.. they couldn't be flying there just because, no?)..

Either way, I can very easily say that our decision (of my group) to have multiple people participate in the MSQ (and thus become Warrior of Light) is again a free arbitrary choice just as the one we took with WHM's quests and just as the one a lot of us took in deciding our character is native of Eorzea.

Again it all goes back to "if it doesn't hurt you, there is no point telling someone what they can't do". Maybe it hurts your sensibility, just walk away. It hurts my sensibility to see people RPing kisses or sex or talk of sex, but you don't see me here telling everyone to stahp, do you?

I hope I don't get banned for daring saying this, but trying to impose your rules on people you can just choose not to interact with is not so different from all those people who bash on who doesn't follow their religion, diet, or sexual orientation. I try to look at it this way at least, when I decide my words to use with someone who has different tastes than my own. It helps me open my eyes a lot.

ArmachiA · **05-08-2015, 05:44 AM**

No one is telling people what to do though? when did I tell someone what to do?

The only person who got told what to do was me, when I was told I had to accept it or I was destroying the community. I know very well what your group roleplays and I have never harassed you about it, ever. Nor will I. (In fact I have talked to Blade before and find him to be a very very nice man.)

I'm frankly insulted by the implication that I'm telling you what to do when I told you very loudly you can do whatever you please. I just don't have to roleplay with you.

Aduu Avagnar · **05-08-2015, 05:44 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:41 AM)Blue Wrote: I hope I don't get banned for daring saying this, but trying to impose your rules on people you can just choose not to interact with is not so different from all those people who bash on who doesn't follow their religion, diet, or sexual orientation. I try to look at it this way at least, when I decide my words to use with someone who has different tastes than my own. It helps me open my eyes a lot.

please re-read my post a couple up...

then re-read it again, and as many times as you need to, to understand this very simple point, as I am not sure how many times I can phrase this so that it is understood:

We are not imposing rules. We are restricting who we roleplay with, no one else. You can play what you want. We do not have to like it. We have a choice whether we Roleplay with you. You have a choice who you Roleplay with. We are not trying to force anyone to roleplay anything other than what they choose to roleplay. We are simply picking roleplay partners that fit our interpretation of the lore.

this post is also pertinent to the thread at hand:

How to properly react to RP you don't like? accept that you guys aren't going to mesh and move on.

Blue · **05-08-2015, 05:51 AM**

(05-08-2015, 05:44 AM)Nakoli Chalahko Wrote:
(05-08-2015, 05:41 AM)Blue Wrote: I hope I don't get banned for daring saying this, but trying to impose your rules on people you can just choose not to interact with is not so different from all those people who bash on who doesn't follow their religion, diet, or sexual orientation. I try to look at it this way at least, when I decide my words to use with someone who has different tastes than my own. It helps me open my eyes a lot.
please re-read my post a couple up...

then re-read it again, and as many times as you need to, to understand this very simple point, as I am not sure how many times I can phrase this so that it is understood:

We are not imposing rules. We are restricting who we roleplay with, no one else. You can play what you want. We do not have to like it. We have a choice whether we Roleplay with you. You have a choice who you Roleplay with. We are not trying to force anyone to roleplay anything other than what they choose to roleplay. We are simply picking roleplay partners that fit our interpretation of the lore.

this post is also pertinent to the thread at hand:

How to properly react to RP you don't like? accept that you guys aren't going to mesh and move on.

I know and I was supporting you. My response was addressing to those who are saying that "others are just wrong and shouldn't do it because of this and this and this.". I am sorry for contributing to the thread derail.

As of back to topic, I already have my response back in the first pages, and it pretty much said the same things you did now.

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