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Melodia · **05-12-2015, 10:55 AM**

(05-12-2015, 10:51 AM)Aaron Wrote: It wasn't even that hard. . . If you died you could literally start again mid trial and run back to where you were and continue.

It wasn't even that hard to me. . .

There....fixed it.

Warren Castille · **05-12-2015, 10:57 AM**

(05-12-2015, 10:55 AM)Melodia Wrote:
(05-12-2015, 10:51 AM)Aaron Wrote: It wasn't even that hard. . . If you died you could literally start again mid trial and run back to where you were and continue.
It wasn't even that hard to me. . .

There....fixed it.

Missing the second snare when Vishap is still at 75% because your DPS are dumb and don't know how to focus anything down and spend no time on the boss tips its jaunty chapeau to you, Aaron.

Running back to a lost fight just accrues repair costs.

Aaron · **05-12-2015, 10:59 AM**

Im just saying is all.

If you could clear T5 something like SoF shouldn't be hard.

Then again. . . /trails off and just walks away.

Cato · **05-12-2015, 11:07 AM**

(05-12-2015, 10:55 AM)Melodia Wrote:
(05-12-2015, 10:51 AM)Aaron Wrote: It wasn't even that hard. . . If you died you could literally start again mid trial and run back to where you were and continue.
It wasn't even that hard to me. . .

There....fixed it.

Difficulty is subjective to an extent but none of the mechanics in the fight were particularly tricky. Most people only had to worry about one thing.

I'd consider something like T9 to be a better example of a difficult encounter. Even when someone nails it they're spending a lot of time dealing with numerous mechanics and different phases throughout the fight.

Warren Castille · **05-12-2015, 11:08 AM**

(05-12-2015, 10:59 AM)Aaron Wrote: Im just saying is all.

If you could clear X something like Y shouldn't be hard.

Then again. . . /trails off and just walks away.

Right.

Link your T13 kill please.

Steel Wolf · **05-12-2015, 11:09 AM**

Thing is, all that's changed is the HP amounts and damage dealt. The actual mechanics are still there for people to derp it up.

Kellach Woods · **05-12-2015, 11:12 AM**

Yeah, but you can bypass a lot of them now.
It being part of MSQ is asking for new players/alts to be blocked by it if it hadn't been nerfed. I think this nerf might also have been in part because of that. Giving an incentive would probably be better, but y'know.

Stormwind · **05-12-2015, 11:12 AM**

I think the problem with Steps of Faith, and this is just in my opinion, came down to SE's design decisions. They have thrown tank and spank trials at us for over a year that could be outgeared and bulldozed and now finally they throw something at the community that can't be pile-drived and everyone loses their minds. As a rule, I expect the lowest common denominator out of pugs because that is the group SE has catered their trial roulette content to. The lowest common denominator, especially among DPS in my experience is "burn",Â "The healer will cover for me", and "Mechanics are a class in 3.0".

Aduu Avagnar · **05-12-2015, 11:13 AM**

(05-12-2015, 10:54 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(05-12-2015, 10:46 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: No one's arguing that.

Edit, clarified: I'm saying that when compared to other games or even just other XIV mechanics, "push this button when he stands in this spot three times" is as easy as it gets.
Some have said it in this topic even.

The problem with that is that, honestly, raid mechanics ain't even that complex. It's pretty much a multiple person Press X To Not Die.

no one said it was a good intro to raid mechanics, just that it was one. in the manner of one shot mechanics.

Kellach Woods · **05-12-2015, 11:17 AM**

One shot mechanics? Not exactly - One shot means fight reset. This doesn't reset, which is the major problem with it.

Honestly feel like they should not have allowed the multiple returns but y'know.

Aaron · **05-12-2015, 11:17 AM**

(05-12-2015, 11:08 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(05-12-2015, 10:59 AM)Aaron Wrote: Im just saying is all.

If you could clear X something like Y shouldn't be hard.

Then again. . . /trails off and just walks away.

Right.

Link your T13 kill please.

Lol firstly SoF ain't even close to T13 in difficulty and secondly I don't have a T13 kill more so because I never bothered attempting it rather than being unable to get a group to clear it.

Raids all follow the same basic concepts. Its what separates them from dungeons.

If you want my T9 though that'd work Smile

Manari · **05-12-2015, 11:19 AM**

Nothing is difficult if you have a core group of people you run everything with. Cooperation in natural in such a setting, which is how these fights are set up. Not all of us are so lucky and some have nothing but the Duty Finder to work with. People use the Duty Finder for varying reasons, and as such are not in the same mindset. Some people don't even talk at all, which makes communication and coordination very difficult, making winning the fight very difficult. Posting a reply that says nothing besides "Psh, it was already easy." doesn't really accomplish anything positive.

Warren Castille · **05-12-2015, 11:21 AM**

(05-12-2015, 11:17 AM)Aaron Wrote: Lol firstly X ain't even close to Y in difficulty and secondly I don't have a Y kill more so because I never bothered attempting it rather than being unable to get a group to clear it.

Raids all follow the same basic concepts. Its what separates them from dungeons.

If you want my Z though that'd work

I'm only quoting you to show the argument is exactly the same with the names swapped out. What's easy for you because of reasons isn't easy for others because of reasons. There are plenty of people who will argue up the chain, ending at the predictable "XIV isn't hard" argument.

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Gegenji · **05-12-2015, 11:22 AM**

(05-12-2015, 10:59 AM)Aaron Wrote: Im just saying is all.

If you could clear T5 something like SoF shouldn't be hard.

Then again. . . /trails off and just walks away.

Some people can't, though. And mixed in with them are the people who beat it and think it's "below" them to do it again, people who don't want to deal with first-timers, people in a rush, people with attitudes, and a litany of other folks all in that pool you'll draw from for to fill that Trial.

Sometimes you get a good group first try! When I powered Judge through the MSQ, I got an awesome group while my tin can sat on a cannon and shot baddies. Sometimes you don't - I've had several cases where Gogon's queued for Trial Roulette and watch as half the group evaporates the moment it pops up and we get to play the Waiting Game for another 10-15 minutes as people join and then IMMEDIATELY leave. Or you get a case like I mentioned in the Vent Tent were the tanks all copped attitudes and tanked poorly and had adds running everywhere.

Out of control adds is the big thing that makes the situation hard to recover, and running back really doesn't help. Usually it involves the tank not grabbing them or dying (either from the adds, standing in AoE, or getting stomped), which leads to the adds eating the other party members - usually the healers, who also die and now have low MP. It just descends into a sort of chaos after that - tanks trying to get aggro back on the adds, healers with low MP, cannons not getting fired because the people manning them are under attack/dead, dragonkiller not getting fired because the person is under attack/dead.

And all the while, all you can do is either keep trying to recover - running back into the mob of adds to die over and over again - or you stay at the respawn point (or just stay dead) until the boss finally waddles his way to the end and you get to watch the unskippable cutscene before trying again. Oh wait, people are upset because it wasn't one-shot and bailed. Likely a tank and/or a healer, so now you get to wait for the replacements.

All of this coming from a single event spiraling out of control. Which, hopefully, all these adjustments will help with. Boss has less health, the adds have less health, and overall damage is reduced somewhat. This allows the fight to be more recoverable if things get out of hand, and hopefully will allow said recoveries to happen and more clears to occur. Which is needed since this Trial is required by the MSQ.

Kage · **05-12-2015, 11:25 AM**

Before the nerf, everyone but tanks practically died because they couldn't keep out of his feet. (WHY DO PEOPLE DO THAT BY THE WAY? JUST FUCKING FOLLOW HIS FUCKING CIRCLE AND STAY IN THE MIDDLE LANE AND ONLY MOVE SLIGHTLY OUT BECAUSE OF THE AOES OK?)

And for some reason, lots of people died to that.

Or a tank couldn't grab things well (not bothering with the biasts etc). The adds are too much of an annoyance. I don't see giantkiller being needed so much as the -cannons- being needed to kill the adds that spawn. Particularly the turtle. Let me kill turtle please.

I've never had to dps the fight before oddly enough it being the role I raid with. But it's like... DPS just burn Vishap. Fuck rotationals cause you gonna get squished. Or, if you gonna, don't get squished. Healer(s), just stay with the tank getting adds to front. Tank, get your butt and those adds to vishap's front. When he does the big conal, you have time to get to his middle. We want those adds dead.

Doing that, lb3 asap, all things going well I usually see Vishap die before he even gets to the gate. @_@

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