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Kage · **05-26-2015, 02:27 PM**

Quote:"The pious Ishgardian clergy guide the flock, and the devout knights protect the weak. Yet even the holiest of men succumb to the darkest of temptations.

None dare to administer justice to these sacrosanct elite residing outside the reach of the law. Who, then, defends the feeble from the transgressions of those meant to guide and protect them?

A valiant few take up arms to defend the downtrodden, and not even the holy priests and knights can escape their judgment. Pariahs in their own land, they are known by many as "dark knights."

These sentinels bear no shields declaring their allegiance. Instead, their greatswords act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness."

I mean with dragoons, you had a stolen eye / renegade dragoon / dragons exist outside of Ishgard.

But uh, the clergy ain't really doing shit outside of Ishgard except for Inquisitors*. Why would people actually care about a city that's closed off to them?

Telluride · **05-26-2015, 02:29 PM**

Also, another reason why I defy SE's insistence that THOU SHALT BOW DOWN TO OUR STORY:

Dear SE,

YOU ARE GIVING US A NEW RACE.

This race has played no part, no part, NO PART in your MSQ, save for one individual whose arrival is as much a Deus Ex Machina to keep us interested in her mystery. She is utterly disposable as an Au Ra.

Why, then, could I not start an Au Ra up in Ishgard, since I AM NOT A RACE INVOLVED IN THIS STORY, and take one of the three classes that also ARE NOT INVOLVED AT ALL IN YOUR MSQ (Remember, Yugiri is a Ninja), and let me jump into the new story as it is?

I'm perfectly willing to have you say, "Finish the main story first!" I'm done. I know what happens. Let me play the Au Ra Dark Knight/Mechanist/Astrologian who steps in to revive the Wild Roses.

Because if you allow me to Fantasia into an Au Ra, then an Au Ra must have been the Warrior of Light the whole time. You can't get around this, SE, except by permutations that would have any Novel Publishing Editor laugh your story out of circulation.

Perhaps SE has figured this all out, but they're remaining closed mouthed, and as things stand, there are direct contradictions aplenty in what we're getting. If you insist upon your Story being the #1 consideration, you have a responsibility to make the thing WORK.

Hm. Yep, I'm on a rant n' roll today.

McBeefâ„¢ · **05-26-2015, 02:32 PM**

(05-26-2015, 02:29 PM)Telluride Wrote: Also, another reason why I defy SE's insistence that THOU SHALT BOW DOWN TO OUR STORY:

Dear SE,

YOU ARE GIVING US A NEW RACE.

This race has played no part, no part, NO PART in your MSQ, save for one individual whose arrival is as much a Deus Ex Machina to keep us interested in her mystery. She is utterly disposable as an Au Ra.

Why, then, could I not start an Au Ra up in Ishgard, since I AM NOT A RACE INVOLVED IN THIS STORY, and take one of the three classes that also ARE NOT INVOLVED AT ALL IN YOUR MSQ (Remember, Yugiri is a Ninja), and let me jump into the new story as it is?

I'm perfectly willing to have you say, "Finish the main story first!" I'm done. I know what happens. Let me play the Au Ra Dark Knight/Mechanist/Astrologian who steps in to revive the Wild Roses.

Because if you allow me to Fantasia into an Au Ra, then an Au Ra must have been the Warrior of Light the whole time. You can't get around this, SE, except by permutations that would have any Novel Publishing Editor laugh your story out of circulation.

Perhaps SE has figured this all out, but they're remaining closed mouthed, and as things stand, there are direct contradictions aplenty in what we're getting. If you insist upon your Story being the #1 consideration, you have a responsibility to make the thing WORK.

Hm. Yep, I'm on a rant n' roll today.

Maybe you just play the MSQ with a bag over your head and just play it cool.

"Just an Elezen with a bag on his head, and psoriasis, nothing to see here."

BroodingFicus · **05-26-2015, 02:33 PM**

(05-26-2015, 02:19 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 02:14 PM)Melkire Wrote: Narratively speaking, all three new jobs seem tied to expansion areas. Dark Knights are supposedly an Ishgardian thing, as are machinists who are following Garlond's example. Astrologians practice a Sharlayan art.

Theoretically speaking, if they got shoved out to Coerthas, how would this be handled?

DRG is also an Ishgardian thing, though. So I'm sure they could manage something for DRK. And the folks at the Observatorium are Astrologians, right? Really, the only problem one might be MCH - but if they had it as one of the Limsan flintlock-users adapting more Garlean tech (stolen off raided Garlean ships, maybe), then you don't have it tied to the expansion areas either.

It could also maybe be you meet them while they are salvaging Garlean tech from somewhere. Help them fight off an ambush or something and from then on they meet you out at the tavern in the first town in Coerthas. Or maybe they are looking to outfit the keeps in Coerthas with artillery or something and call in an expert. Stick one of them out at Dragonhead. Lots of options really. I also like your idea. Maybe some ballsy flintlock guy (you know the ones they already have in the game below the marauders guild) is trying to make a new weapon using garlean tech. He succeeds (possibly blowing a hole in a wall somewhere) and one of the machinists comes to investigate what he has made. So many options aside from 'lets lock it behind the gates ha ha'.

Gegenji · **05-26-2015, 02:33 PM**

(05-26-2015, 02:27 PM)Kage Wrote:
Quote:"The pious Ishgardian clergy guide the flock, and the devout knights protect the weak. Yet even the holiest of men succumb to the darkest of temptations.

None dare to administer justice to these sacrosanct elite residing outside the reach of the law. Who, then, defends the feeble from the transgressions of those meant to guide and protect them?

A valiant few take up arms to defend the downtrodden, and not even the holy priests and knights can escape their judgment. Pariahs in their own land, they are known by many as "dark knights."

These sentinels bear no shields declaring their allegiance. Instead, their greatswords act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness."

I mean with dragoons, you had a stolen eye / renegade dragoon / dragons exist outside of Ishgard.

But uh, the clergy ain't really doing shit outside of Ishgard except for Inquisitors*. Why would people actually care about a city that's closed off to them?

Inquisitors could work fine as a reason. There's a corrupt one that the DRK trainer wants to put the kibosh on, but needs assistance in gathering information, evidence, what have you outside the walls of Ishgard. Oh hey, you're the Warrior of Light, you dealt with the fake Inquisitor from before! Wanna help? I'll teach you how to hit things with a big sword.

Telluride · **05-26-2015, 02:34 PM**

(05-26-2015, 02:32 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 02:29 PM)Telluride Wrote: Perhaps SE has figured this all out, but they're remaining closed mouthed, and as things stand, there are direct contradictions aplenty in what we're getting. If you insist upon your Story being the #1 consideration, you have a responsibility to make the thing WORK.

Hm. Yep, I'm on a rant n' roll today.

Maybe you just play the MSQ with a bag over your head and just play it cool.

"Just an Elezen with a bag on his head, and psoriasis, nothing to see here."

Y'know... give me a Bag headpiece. I accept your challenge. I'm gonna watch the final cutscenes as the Bagboy of No Longer Especially Potent Light.

This could work for me!

BroodingFicus · **05-26-2015, 03:37 PM**

(05-26-2015, 02:29 PM)Telluride Wrote: Also, another reason why I defy SE's insistence that THOU SHALT BOW DOWN TO OUR STORY:

Dear SE,

YOU ARE GIVING US A NEW RACE.

This race has played no part, no part, NO PART in your MSQ, save for one individual whose arrival is as much a Deus Ex Machina to keep us interested in her mystery. She is utterly disposable as an Au Ra.

Why, then, could I not start an Au Ra up in Ishgard, since I AM NOT A RACE INVOLVED IN THIS STORY, and take one of the three classes that also ARE NOT INVOLVED AT ALL IN YOUR MSQ (Remember, Yugiri is a Ninja), and let me jump into the new story as it is?

I'm perfectly willing to have you say, "Finish the main story first!" I'm done. I know what happens. Let me play the Au Ra Dark Knight/Mechanist/Astrologian who steps in to revive the Wild Roses.

Because if you allow me to Fantasia into an Au Ra, then an Au Ra must have been the Warrior of Light the whole time. You can't get around this, SE, except by permutations that would have any Novel Publishing Editor laugh your story out of circulation.

Perhaps SE has figured this all out, but they're remaining closed mouthed, and as things stand, there are direct contradictions aplenty in what we're getting. If you insist upon your Story being the #1 consideration, you have a responsibility to make the thing WORK.

Hm. Yep, I'm on a rant n' roll today.

You know...I never thought of that. As far as I know Au Ra are the one thing accessible from the get go however we don't know where they came from or how they fit into the story if at all. Even if they make a reason for their appearance it does mean that the warrior of light would have needed to be an Au Ra from the beginning. Though as I say this, there is a little nagging voice in the back of my mind saying we should just pray they decided to ignore this and allow us to at least be the race we want from the get go since the alternative is they lock that behind MSQ too.

Aya · **05-26-2015, 03:44 PM**

(05-26-2015, 03:37 PM)BroodingFicus Wrote: You know...I never thought of that. As far as I know Au Ra are the one thing accessible from the get go however we don't know where they came from or how they fit into the story if at all. Even if they make a reason for their appearance it does mean that the warrior of light would have needed to be an Au Ra from the beginning. Though as I say this, there is a little nagging voice in the back of my mind saying we should just pray they decided to ignore this and allow us to at least be the race we want from the get go since the alternative is they lock that behind MSQ too.

~That moment when the shrouded Yugiri meets an Au Ra Warrior of Light~

BroodingFicus · **05-26-2015, 03:50 PM**

(05-26-2015, 03:44 PM)Aya Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 03:37 PM)BroodingFicus Wrote: You know...I never thought of that. As far as I know Au Ra are the one thing accessible from the get go however we don't know where they came from or how they fit into the story if at all. Even if they make a reason for their appearance it does mean that the warrior of light would have needed to be an Au Ra from the beginning. Though as I say this, there is a little nagging voice in the back of my mind saying we should just pray they decided to ignore this and allow us to at least be the race we want from the get go since the alternative is they lock that behind MSQ too.
~That moment when the shrouded Yugiri meets an Au Ra Warrior of Light~

Shroud obscures vision so badly she never noticed the Warrior of Light is also an Au Ra.

ArmachiA · **05-27-2015, 07:35 AM**

Is it a strange design choice to have jobs locked until 50? Yeah.
Is it something I'm surprised about? Nope.

I think the only real game we can compare FFXIV to is it's sister game FFXI - which basically has the same design philosophy wrapped up in a grindier package. FFXI had a lot of classes gated behind 30, in fact most of them were except for the original 6. Before you say "But so does this game!" unlocking White Mage for CNJ was not the same as playing a RDM and then trying to unlock SMN once you get 30. "But it's 30, not cap level!" Well that's the rub... level 30 was a huge slog to get to, it was a slow process that, back in 2003, probably took as much time to hit as FFXIV's level 50. In fact this was probably true until Abyssea in 2010 - which a lot of players said ruined the game because it made everything easier. Not only did they unlock at 30, each one had a bullshit quest attached to it that varied in difficulty, but nearly all of them you needed high level friends to even help clear (Anyone remember trying to get NIN by yourself at 30? HAHAHAHAHA hahahaha... hahaha...). It's difficult and tedious, and they never stopped doing it.

Here's the thing: Like it or hate it. Square Enix LOVES GATES. It's their favorite thing in the world. In FFXI every 5 levels past 50 was locked behind a gate - a difficult quest from Maat to increase your level tier. Most of the Promathia expansion was locked behind the huge gate called Promyvions (Oh, Prom... I curse your name). Sky was gated. Sea was gated. Gates everywhere, all the gates. That carried over to FFXIV.

Did anyone find it weird that the last month before the expansion, instead of just... oh I dunno... dropping the gates of T5 and T9 to get into FCOB, they... uh... didn't do that at all. Just giving FCOB an echo bonus that... probably wasn't necessary. They wanted to make FCOB easier for people already in FCOB? It's a month till expansion, let the gates down! But they won't, to them gates mean prestige. It's how you show you accomplished something and it's pretty tangible beyond looking up achievements. You know anyone with a FCOB piece has cleared T5 and T9 (And Titan hard). You know anyone who has a Shiva pony also went through the BS of unlocking all the primals before her. You know simply from an item they have what they did to get said item. And SE LIKES that for better or for worse.

To them, DRK/AST/MCH are prestige classes. Something that you need to work toward and so other people know you worked toward it. Prestige classes aren't new to the RPG scene, Dungeons and Dragons has Prestige classes.

Do I think it's silly? Yeah sure. But I also know how SE is. SE is SE. Just like Blizzard is Blizzard and NCSoft is ass. Each company does things differently in order to show accomplishments. SE's way can be quite bullshit.

HOWEVER. I don't think that this game is newbie unfriendly at all. The game is still EXTREMELY newbie friendly. When you walk in as a new player you will know those three classes are Prestige classes. You'll know because it's telling you so. As a new player you'll probably just... sigh and roll a Warrior or something. New players did it in FFXI, they did it in WoW too (With Death Knight, level 55 was killer if you were new!), and it's something that a new player will... probably just accept if they want to play the game. It's not like most new players are whiny babies and will throw a tantrum and leave. They'll look at all the options and either play or not play.

And since the game is exceedingly popular, my guess is they will most likely play.

Will FFXIV lose some business over this? Yes. But they lose business over a lot of things. Any design decision they make is a subscription lose from Bob Joe who decides that the hill he's going to die on. SE doesn't make decisions based on how many subscriptions they may lose, if they did, they would make no decisions.

Spethah · **05-27-2015, 07:42 AM**

(05-27-2015, 07:35 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: -snip-

Thank you.

THANK YOU.

/thread.

Kellach Woods · **05-27-2015, 07:52 AM**

Honestly it does feel weird because I kinda feel that if you could sneak into Coerthas Central (where you're gonna step into Ishgard anyway) 30+ you should get access to them, but that's not really what I was worried about. It does suck, but if you do your research you'll just level PLD/WAR (for DRK), DRG/BRD (for MCH) or WHM/SCH (for AST) so you get a leg up on the cross-classes. I also kinda understand for AST because you're essentially a "We don't have either of WHM/SCH, so go into what we don't have stance" job.

They, however, still haven't mentioned much of anything with the MSQ group content from 2.1/2.5 which is where most of the problems I've placed forward lie.

I thought their reshuffling of roulette definitions would be enough, but as soon as they said they split them into ARR/Heavensward anyway it really felt like Yoshida hadn't expected this question and had no idea how to answer in order to not make the answer suck.

BTW : The target iLevel for Heavensward is i110 everyone, not i90.

Naunet · **05-27-2015, 10:54 AM**

(05-27-2015, 07:52 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: I thought their reshuffling of roulette definitions would be enough, but as soon as they said they split them into ARR/Heavensward anyway it really felt like Yoshida hadn't expected this question and had no idea how to answer in order to not make the answer suck.

Haha oh man, that is going to be... pretty awful.

I keep looking for a reason to give SE money again (au ra, as much as I despise what they represent in character design philosophy, are pretty; I love the idea of astrologian; new places to explore is always fun), but every single time SE just shoots them all down (crappy character customization; astrologian locked behind the gods-awful level and MSQ grind as I'd have wanted to make an au ra astrologian; SE's continued obsession with tightly controlling where you go in zones isn't likely to change; etc).

>_<

Warren Castille · **05-27-2015, 06:45 PM**

SE could make legacy dialogue for Yugiri if you're playing an Au Ra. Change "I can't reveal myself, it'd make a mess" into "I don't want to be confused for you, since you're a hero and we're both rare species here."

Done.

Kellach Woods · **05-27-2015, 08:47 PM**

Any adjustments will certainly be like that - they've done so before, no reason they can't do it now.

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Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice?

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