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Gegenji · **06-16-2015, 09:38 AM**

(06-16-2015, 09:35 AM)Manari Wrote:
(06-16-2015, 09:15 AM)Gegenji Wrote: Definitely better presented than Kefka's insanity due to being the subject of experimental Magitek infusion - which was left as a throw away NPC message you could miss.

"Yeah well that's like, just your opinion, man."

And I "definitely" completely disagree. Â But I'm not 14 any more, and my flame war days are behind me.

I mean how the explanation for it was presented. Sephiroth's reason for snapping was presented as part of the story - since it's also covering Cloud's past as well. You can't miss seeing it because it's required to proceed through the game. The explanation that Kefka snapped due to Magitek infusion was, as stated, relegated to a random NPC in a pub in Vector that you had no need to talk to.

I personally like Kefka more as a villain than Sephiroth, mainly because Sephiroth just strikes me as painfully derivative of the nihilistic court mage. He's also more... entertaining, I suppose? Not to mention that he actually succeeded and you spend half the game in a world he shaped how he wished with the power he obtained. But, as you mentioned, definitely a matter of opinion and preference.

Griffith! · **06-16-2015, 09:49 AM**

Considering his behavior towards Cloud in Advent Children - yeah, I know, we were talking about FF7 core, not Compilation - I'd say Sephiroth is definitely fixated on Cloud. I mean, the whole "tell me what's precious Â to you so I can take it away" thing? Seems a little more personal than his old "I'll just destroy the planet" plan. And looking at Crisis Core in particular, he was even a little fixated on Zack, who was essentially proto-Cloud.

Dude obsesses is what I'm saying.

So, yeah, the plot of VII does seem like a get-back-at-Cloud plan. Seems like a theme.

Manari · **06-16-2015, 10:03 AM**

I also had a few very similar things typed out, but I deleted them because this is a FFVII thread and I felt like I'd just be creating an argument. Personally, I blame the era that FFVI was released along with the... loose... translation for the SNES version. Maybe loose isn't the proper word, more like liberal?

Kefka's backstory was criminally understated, if they remade it, you know they'd delve deeply into it, even if they had to create one first. But as a villain, Sephiroth just didn't work for me. Now, I loved his character design. But when FFVII was over and I reflected on everything, that was the only part of him that I was attracted to. He was stylish looking. He had a cool sword. Was he a good villain? I didn't really feel he was. He's certainly not the worst villain in the FF series. Most of the game is just following him and looking at a trail of what he left behind while fighting mostly unrelated battles along the way while engaging in slapfights and dolphin jumping.

Gegenji · **06-16-2015, 10:18 AM**

It's all at least a little relevant since we don't know how much work is going into the remake beyond the presented graphical updates. Will they try to tweak Sephiroth to make him a more... "badass" villain? Pull in all the new stuff added from the Compilation?

The latter worries me most, actually, because of the massive changes to key characters. Cloud was never really an emo angstfest like people seem to like to portray him - he was cocky, arrogant, and had a mouth on him... and that only really fell apart when he found out he might be little more than a Sephiroth-clone. Not to mention the whole "becoming Zack" thing wrought from Hojo's experimentation on him post-Sephiroth fight.

Aeris/Aerith wasn't some pure innocent thing, either. She was a streetwise "flower-seller" who just happened to be one of the last of an ancient race. Oddly enough, from what I recall, it was Tifa who better fit that role - clinging to Cloud, bringing him into the fold, and not telling him his memories of the past were wrong for fear of driving him away.

I'm just wondering how much of that will be maintained, and how much of it might be altered to better fit the "updated" FF7 universe.

Flickering Ember · **06-16-2015, 10:42 AM**

(06-16-2015, 09:11 AM)Manari Wrote: I guess I can abandon all hope for a solid remake of Final Fantasy VI with a better translation to show the world how amazing it's story and characters are. Â

I loved FFVII when it first came out. Â It was a superb RPG. Â But I am so over it's hype and crazy fandom. Â You know they are going to ruin it's story with all the added filler crap they have created thanks to Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core.

FFVI has a GBA version with a better translation. It's worth checking out for anyone who hasn't. The difference in story translation is pretty large and changes the story and characters a bit.

TheLastCandle · **06-16-2015, 10:46 AM**

(06-16-2015, 10:42 AM)Flickering Ember Wrote:
(06-16-2015, 09:11 AM)Manari Wrote: I guess I can abandon all hope for a solid remake of Final Fantasy VI with a better translation to show the world how amazing it's story and characters are. Â

I loved FFVII when it first came out. Â It was a superb RPG. Â But I am so over it's hype and crazy fandom. Â You know they are going to ruin it's story with all the added filler crap they have created thanks to Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core.

FFVI has a GBA version with a better translation. It's worth checking out for anyone who hasn't. The difference in story translation is pretty large and changes the story and characters a bit.

The only thing keeping the GBA port from being the definitive version of FF6 is the terrible sound quality. But I believe there's a patch floating around that fixes that if you're using an emulator to play it..

Flickering Ember · **06-16-2015, 10:58 AM**

I have mixed feelings on this. I'm not a big Final Fantasy fan. I mostly just like Final Fantasy IX and like the others okay. I've come around to Final Fantasy X with time. I'm not sure if I still like Final Fantasy VII or not. I haven't played it as an adult to be honest. It's a good game but not one I'm sure that I need to relive. There are other RPGs that are more near and dear to my heart.

Definitely interested in checking this out but I wouldn't call myself a fan. Most of my hesitations exist in modern day Square Enix. I haven't been a fan of their closed world, corridor design (that existed well before FFXIII in a lil' game called FFX) , their continued attempts from killing off the strategic ATB battle system for more action oriented directions, and strangely enough their game's graphics.

To touch more on graphics, Square Enix likes to focus on realistic graphics but their characters are still very distinctly anime. Realism and anime don't really mesh well in my opinion. It's too much uncanny valley for me and I certainly see it in Advent Children. There's something weird about modern FFs' anime characteristics too that are just such a turn off to me. I can't put my finger on it. In contrast, games like that Tales series which are done entirely in anime style are not offputting at all to me. I figure that it must not only be modern FF graphics but their animations and character personalities as well.

Long story short, I don't think the remake will be for me. But I am happy that Final Fantasy VII is getting one, as fans have been clamoring for it for quite a long time. And while I am not exactly a fan of modern day Final Fantasy graphics, the original Final Fantasy VII ones are rather strange and don't age well. (in contrast, Chrono Trigger with its bright colorful sprites aged fantastic) I'll be keeping an eye out on it to see if it will be something that I can get into.

Flickering Ember · **06-16-2015, 11:01 AM**

(06-16-2015, 10:46 AM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(06-16-2015, 10:42 AM)Flickering Ember Wrote:
(06-16-2015, 09:11 AM)Manari Wrote: I guess I can abandon all hope for a solid remake of Final Fantasy VI with a better translation to show the world how amazing it's story and characters are. Â

I loved FFVII when it first came out. Â It was a superb RPG. Â But I am so over it's hype and crazy fandom. Â You know they are going to ruin it's story with all the added filler crap they have created thanks to Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core.

FFVI has a GBA version with a better translation. It's worth checking out for anyone who hasn't. The difference in story translation is pretty large and changes the story and characters a bit.

The only thing keeping the GBA port from being the definitive version of FF6 is the terrible sound quality. But I believe there's a patch floating around that fixes that if you're using an emulator to play it..

My SO is a huge FF fan. He has a weird relationship with FFVI because he was told that FFVI was the best in the series but when he played it, he hated it. Over time he's come to like it, but thinks it's over hyped and that the original translation is a nightmare. But he also loves the music of FFs and laments the GBA version having such terrible music.

Last time he played a modded rom that had a fan translation, he liked it alright but still preferred the GBA translation. I am sure he would LOVE a way to fix the GBA rom's terrible music.

TheLastCandle · **06-16-2015, 11:25 AM**

(06-16-2015, 11:01 AM)Flickering Ember Wrote: My SO is a huge FF fan. He has a weird relationship with FFVI because he was told that FFVI was the best in the series but when he played it, he hated it. Over time he's come to like it, but thinks it's over hyped and that the original translation is a nightmare. But he also loves the music of FFs and laments the GBA version having such terrible music.

Last time he played a modded rom that had a fan translation, he liked it alright but still preferred the GBA translation. I am sure he would LOVE a way to fix the GBA rom's terrible music.

http://fantasyanime.com/finalfantasy/ff6...nloads.htm

Scroll down to Emulation - Prepatched Hacks and it's the first one. Smile

ROM already patched with the sound and color restoration mods. Pretty close to the best thing ever.

Aaron · **06-16-2015, 12:11 PM**

(06-16-2015, 09:30 AM)Gegenji Wrote:
(06-16-2015, 09:20 AM)Aaron Wrote: He wouldnt have been evil without Genesis.

Genesis drove him mad. But if CC didnt exist one could genuinely guess hes evil bevause he wants to rule for the hell of it.

He was evil before Genesis was even a thing in the continuity. And he didn't want to rule - he was calling down Meteor to destroy everything.

He went on what was supposed to be a routine inspection of a Mako Reactor, found out Hojo was using the Mako to try and make more supersoldiers like him. Freaked out, locked himself in the study for a few days to try and make heads or tails of the situation - and found out he was the child of Jenova, whom was believed to be one of the Cetra. He goes over-the-top about his new discovered heritage and blames the settled Cetra (those that became normal people) for all the ills of the world and goes to hang out with Mom.

During which he attacks Tifa, and then gets into a fight with Cloud and is thrown over a pipe into the Lifestream below. Recoups up north and manipulates fragments of Jenova into doing his bidding, culminating in him using the very person who defeated him to bring him the key to destroying the world. Really, looking at it - it all seems like a horrendously fatalistic revenge-plot against Cloud rather than being just for the hell of it.

When you put CC into account. All this reverts to Genesis.

If he never existed, he and Sephiroth never woulda tore up that training area -> never got that voodoo cant heal cut -> never would have set off Sephiroth down into insanity.

Sephiroth had zero problem with Cloud when they first met. But after Genesis pulled that stunt im Nibel it all went down hill.

When you take out genesis and put it in what you say. It REALLY sounds to the average person "So like, this guy has a grudge against one person, and he wants to destroy everything? Wut?"

Compared to

"Through a revaluation, he now believes hes a prophet and wants to destroy the world to usher in the promised land" or whatever.

I mean sure CC came after the original FF. But a lot of game franchises pull stunts like that. Hardly makes them less impartial.

Sephiroth fundamentally was a good guy. Till he met Genesis. Genesis was the focal point of his madness.

Plenty instances of games having background lore added and stuff way after release to further the depth. I hardly think Sephiroth would be as popular as he is now or FF VII in general without crisis core.

TheLastCandle · **06-16-2015, 12:13 PM**

Genesis was the most cringeworthy addition to the FF7 world. I liked Crisis Core's gameplay, but Gackt Genesis was terrible.

Aaron · **06-16-2015, 12:15 PM**

(06-16-2015, 09:49 AM)Griffith! Wrote: Considering his behavior towards Cloud in Advent Children - yeah, I know, we were talking about FF7 core, not Compilation - I'd say Sephiroth is definitely fixated on Cloud. I mean, the whole "tell me what's precious Â to you so I can take it away" thing? Seems a little more personal than his old "I'll just destroy the planet" plan. And looking at Crisis Core in particular, he was even a little fixated on Zack, who was essentially proto-Cloud.

Dude obsesses is what I'm saying.

So, yeah, the plot of VII does seem like a get-back-at-Cloud plan. Seems like a theme.

Yeah but Advent Children came /after/ FF VII story wise.

Its perfectly reasonable to want revenge on someone who two years ago stopped your entire plans for world domination. Lot more reasonable than taking out the entire world because one guy doesn't believe youre a prophet.

Also why all the Genesis hate? I actually liked him as a character .-.

Gegenji · **06-16-2015, 12:17 PM**

(06-16-2015, 12:11 PM)Aaron Wrote: Sephiroth had zero problem with Cloud when they first met. But after Genesis pulled that stunt im Nibel it all went down hill.

...

Plenty instances of games having background lore added and stuff way after release to further the depth. I hardly think Sephiroth would be as popular as he is now or FF VII in general without crisis core.

It's not about when they first met. What I'm talking about is the incident in the Nibelheim reactor. You know, where Cloud stopped him from reuniting his mother and flung him down into the Lifestream despite being run through? Leaving him near death forcing him to be recuperating up in the north for the entire duration of the game up until you finally find him and Cloud gives him the Black Materia. Genesis had absolutely nothing to do with that, unless Crisis Core forced (and I am really of the opinion that Genesis is "forced") him to have also been there and somehow aided in Sephiroth's freakout over being a test tube baby.

And FF7 was super popular well before Crisis Core came out, and Sephiroth still being toted as the coolest villain ever by FF7 fans. The game's popularity is why Advent Children and Crisis Core were created - to capitalize on a popular game. Crisis Core did not make FF7 nor Sephiroth popular.

EDIT: Also, Sephiroth's "revelation" was in core FF7, before Genesis was introduced as a character, too. That's what the whole Nibelheim reactor scene is about. Genesis, as I have mentioned, feels horribly tacked on and unneeded to me - only existing at all because the producer really likes Gackt and wanted to try and fit him into his continuity. It smells of Mary Sue-ism and pandering of the highest caliber to me.

"Oh, no. It wasn't Sephiroth realizing he was an artificially-made super-soldier made from the DNA of someone believed to be of an ancient race - but actually a shapeshifting alien - that made him snap and decide to deal with the problem of humanity. It wasn't being stopped dead and nearly killed by some inferior, no-name low-class SOLDIER failure that made him spiteful. It's because he hung out with bad boy Genesis and got a scar."

If anything, I feel the addition of Genesis CHEAPENS Sephiroth because he steals away Sephiroth's agency as a villain.

Aaron · **06-16-2015, 12:23 PM**

(06-16-2015, 12:17 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(06-16-2015, 12:11 PM)Aaron Wrote: Sephiroth had zero problem with Cloud when they first met. But after Genesis pulled that stunt im Nibel it all went down hill.

...

Plenty instances of games having background lore added and stuff way after release to further the depth. I hardly think Sephiroth would be as popular as he is now or FF VII in general without crisis core.

It's not about when they first met. What I'm talking about is the incident in the Nibelheim reactor. You know, where Cloud stopped him from reuniting his mother and flung him down into the Lifestream despite being run through? Leaving him near death forcing him to be recuperating up in the north for the entire duration of the game up until you finally find him and Cloud gives him the Black Materia. Genesis had absolutely nothing to do with that, unless Crisis Core forced (and I am really of the opinion that Genesis is "forced") him to have also been there and somehow aided in Sephiroth's freakout over being a test tube baby.

And FF7 was super popular well before Crisis Core came out, and Sephiroth still being toted as the coolest villain ever by FF7 fans. The game's popularity is why Advent Children and Crisis Core were created - to capitalize on a popular game. Crisis Core did not make FF7 nor Sephiroth popular.

EDIT: Also, Sephiroth's "revelation" was in core FF7, before Genesis was introduced as a character, too. That's what the whole Nibelheim reactor scene is about. Genesis, as I have mentioned, feels horribly tacked on and unneeded - only there because the producer really likes Gackt and wanted to try and fit him into his continuity.

I'm talking about this
[youtube]WTBJd0Loap8[/youtube]

That was before Cloud threw him in the reactor. That was the turning point.Â

If Genesis never existed (taking into account the games timeline not the way they were implemented IRL). Sephiroth most likely wouldn't have went all "Mother I will bring us to the promised land"

And note I said /as popular/ not /made popular/

Manari · **06-16-2015, 12:25 PM**

(06-16-2015, 12:13 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote: Genesis was the most cringeworthy addition to the FF7 world. I liked Crisis Core's gameplay, but Gackt Genesis was terrible.

This. I couldn't agree more. I played Crisis Core because I was honestly interested in Zack, and I really wanted to see how they handled his end. But I wasn't expecting the mountain of filler crap they heaped into the game. Mostly caused by Genesis. He was a terrible addition.

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