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Kage · **09-22-2015, 09:20 AM**

From the reddit consensus, this GM is new or is ESL. Another person or so mentioned on reddit talking to GMs who said that Player to Player housing is actionable outside of scamming.

From everyone else who has interacted, this seems odd/strange because others were told that the trade needs to be completely within the game, clear and defined terms, no RMT.

When I was selling one of my plots on the forums months ago, it did get removed by the forum moderators "under their discretion".

FreelanceWizard · **09-22-2015, 09:20 AM**

It's happened before that GMs have made policy statements that didn't match the actual policy. One way to get clarification from the community team or a lead GM is to post about it on the official forums. Alternatively, I'm told you can open a ticket in the web interface and ask for a supervisor, though I'm not sure how effective that will be.

Cato · **09-22-2015, 09:24 AM**

It seems like the GM is simply mistaken. The cynical part of me believes it may be due to inexperience or because a lot of companies hire GM's who are not native English speakers and therefore have difficulty working out what, exactly, is being asked.

The housing system is in a rather dubious position with quite a lot of potential for scamming players, however, so I do think there's quite a bit of concern on Square Enix's part regarding this sort of thing. I do not think it is illegal though - unless a recent change has been made to the terms of service.

Kage · **09-22-2015, 09:31 AM**

Same as with the whole player casinos topic, I've made a thread in the forums asking for clarification.

The entire "violation on both sides" thing makes me think the GM is ESL and didn't understand the question because the two players weren't exchanging any in-game currency and assumed they made outside-of-game arrangements.

Arrelaine · **09-22-2015, 10:02 AM**

I could see them not wanting it to be done because it would be so, so easy to scam someone out of millions of gil. WoW won't even investigate scamming if you're doing something you know is super easy to get scammed out of, like buying runs/loot. That's extra work for the GMs to do. I haven't heard of many people scamming each other, though.

Virella · **09-22-2015, 10:08 AM**

(09-22-2015, 10:02 AM)Arrelaine Wrote: I could see them not wanting it to be done because it would be so, so easy to scam someone out of millions of gil. WoW won't even investigate scamming if you're doing something you know is super easy to get scammed out of, like buying runs/loot. That's extra work for the GMs to do. I haven't heard of many people scamming each other, though.

Sadly enough I've seen it happen though; just a few months back my neighbours FC got scammed on a LARGE house. They couldn't even get their gil back. Not sure how they solved it in the end, but it was a massive drama, and lots of gil got stolen.

Fix housing issues already, and we wouldn't have this in the first place :<

Ignacius · **09-22-2015, 10:14 AM**

Maybe I'm just being a doofus here, but... why was a GM involved at all? Â Isn't giving money to people and FCs for houses actually how people get houses? Â If that's illegal, doesn't that mean that if you don't have a house, you can't get a house?

WTF is going on?

Kage · **09-22-2015, 10:35 AM**

(09-22-2015, 10:14 AM)Ignacius Wrote: Maybe I'm just being a doofus here, but... why was a GM involved at all? Â Isn't giving money to people and FCs for houses actually how people get houses? Â If that's illegal, doesn't that mean that if you don't have a house, you can't get a house?

WTF is going on?

The current redditor probably got antsy because a thread last week about housing mentioned SOME OTHER person contacting the GMs about it.

Scams in FFXIV are handled by the GMs. Essentially, if you have the agreement clearly defined and worded in-game chat you are protected by that. The GMs can go through logs and verify that type of information with your World, time zone, time etc. What they won't do, and what I believe this GM is trying to say is a violation, is allow for people to work out outside-of-game things like art for the house.

Tonberry Prince · **09-22-2015, 11:35 AM**

Here's something to keep in mind.

I used to be a GM. Not for SquareEnix/Final Fantasy XIV, but an online MMORPG.Â You may think a GM is a pretty cool character, knowing everything...but in reality, we are just your low level customer service representative.Â And just like most CSR's your results will vary.Â Also, this is NA SquareEnix customer support you're interacting with.Â SE NA Support is probably the worst customer service experience I've ever had to deal with.

CalebAgron · **09-22-2015, 12:25 PM**

I'm gonna agree with others on here and side with the gm. I can't say for certain if its against tos but can see why it would be. If people were allowed to buy and sell houses it would have an incredibly negative impact for housing.Â

As it stands housing in this game is utter shit with only a tiny percent of players being able to enjoy the content. And now you want to let the rich players fuck everyone else by turning this into a capitalist paradise where players buy housing then sell it to others for a profit. Fuck to the no.

I hope they do crack down on house sellers.

Ignacius · **09-22-2015, 12:43 PM**

(09-22-2015, 12:25 PM)CalebAgron Wrote: I'm gonna agree with others on here and side with the gm. I can't say for certain if its against tos but can see why it would be. If people were allowed to buy and sell houses it would have an incredibly negative impact for housing.Â

As it stands housing in this game is utter shit with only a tiny percent of players being able to enjoy the content. And now you want to let the rich players fuck everyone else by turning this into a capitalist paradise where players buy housing then sell it to others for a profit. Fuck to the no.

I hope they do crack down on house sellers.

They certainly need to do something. Â The thing I miss the most about Wildstar right now is the housing.

Seye Qhesu · **09-22-2015, 12:48 PM**

(09-22-2015, 12:43 PM)Ignacius Wrote:
(09-22-2015, 12:25 PM)CalebAgron Wrote: I'm gonna agree with others on here and side with the gm. I can't say for certain if its against tos but can see why it would be. If people were allowed to buy and sell houses it would have an incredibly negative impact for housing.Â

As it stands housing in this game is utter shit with only a tiny percent of players being able to enjoy the content. And now you want to let the rich players fuck everyone else by turning this into a capitalist paradise where players buy housing then sell it to others for a profit. Fuck to the no.

I hope they do crack down on house sellers.

They certainly need to do something. Â The thing I miss the most about Wildstar right now is the housing.

I LOVE wildstar housing. Too bad I didn't like the game enough to stay but I do agree that the housing in this game needs work

Mikoto · **09-22-2015, 01:41 PM**

I'm sure housing will get much better 4.x and beyond since they are now dropping the weakest link in the equation [PS3]. I remember Yoshi-P stating that PS3 has been holding them back when it came to more plots or such? I'll try to get a link since this is coming off the top of my head.

EDIT: Just saw a reddit thread on this and someone said something that made sense. Basically the way the GM worded is that it's in a grey area, you won't get cracked down for doing it but if you get scammed then the GM support won't be there to assist.

Outside of that - Can't wait for the auto relinquish houses for inactive people ><

Pyrefly · **09-22-2015, 01:43 PM**

((I don't agree with this being illegal because, honestly, it is impossible to purchase housing in some servers due to there being no open slots.Â But it could be deemed illegal through an ethical standpoint? Regardless of if there is a gil transaction or not, the GMs may see it as unfair for a person who is abandoning their plot to basically promise it to someone else. Essentially it is robbing others in the game of the equal opportunity to buy the plot when the person who owns it relinquishes it. That is the only reason that really makes sense to me.))

É´á´˜á´„ · **09-22-2015, 02:22 PM**

I certainly would like to be able to legally take part in the Gil sink someday. The fact that players resort to housing scams is a glaring symptom.

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