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luxemas · **10-24-2016, 04:36 PM**

M'kay so I've beenÂ scouring around the forms first to see if I could find something to give me ideas, however I could only find a few tidbits or theories that weren't really too conclusive, so I figured getting some various thoughts might help out.

Basically my male Keeper (Tali'ra) at this point is dealing with two things at the moment.

1. They're a Keeper whose fallen for a Seeker.
2. The Seeker they've fallen for is also male.

Given how a lot of the Tia/Nunh stuff works, at least in my mind, it seems to me that same gender relationships may not be too much an issue or could even be a relief, especially if a Tia has not much interest in having to play to all that Nunh related shenanigans. However, I'm a little more unsure of how it might affect a Keeper given a lot of the implication that male Keepers are a bit more rare. Would a male Keeper falling for another male (and a Seeker no less) be seen as something shameful or selfish? Or would it even matter if they're distancing themselves from general clan norms?

The only reason I ask this is less about handling other people (because I generally take the idea that adventurers really don't pay much mind to tradition as it stands) but more how it would affect Tali'ra's inner conflict. He holds of love and affection for his family growing up, but also a lot of frustration for never feeling like he could live up to the expectation that goes along with being a male keeper. So I guess I'm just trying to figure out of it would be something he still hesitates on allowing himself to have.

My apologies if the topic isn't really that fun and I'm definitely not trying to be controversial for any sort of shock factor, but being that I myself have the same sort of orientation, I just want to make characters who'd act accordingly given their upbringing and perceived expectations.

***Maril*** · **10-24-2016, 05:04 PM**

How I see it (I have a keeper alt that's into guys as well), is that for a Keeper it would very likely be shunned, because as you mention they are expected to be devoting time and effort into providing as many children for their clan as they can. What had mine going off on another trail is that he has a non-traditional upbringing, raised in Ul'dah after his mother made a break away from her roots to seek the larger cities and a more glamorous life. So in that he did not really know of his cultural roots, and certainly isn't finding them to be ones he'd want to live by. Still, the family he still speaks with regularly (siblings) heckle him - albeit not with scorn, more endless teasing and stern talking - about putting children into the world. If the rest of his sub-clan were alive/if he was speaking to them, it'd probably be a lot worse. For a more traditional keeper I would imagine it would be in their clear interest to keep things low-key.Â

As for seekers, their burden is also one to set children into the world once they take the mantle of Nunh - so there's a similar problem here, in that if they're not interested in doing that they would probably not be a Nunh at all. As far as I understand, Seeker Nunhs have to convince their females to stick with him which is largely done by proven the stronger one - for better and stronger offspring. They might be fine with just being a Tia for life, and if that is accepted by their tribe or not - I reckon that is a thing the individual tribe might determine, as there are things that suggest the tribes are culturally very different. For a seeker I don't think the internal strife would be as bad as that of a keeper.Â

As for cross-clan romance, I believe that is a widespread taboo, with mixed-children in Seeker Tribes being rejected/cast out if discovered and such. The less traditional your Miqo'te and their family is the more open they might be to something like that.

Aden Dellebecque · **10-24-2016, 05:26 PM**

The ultimate answer is, are those aspects you as a player are interested in exploring? If they're things you want to explore in a safe, controlled environment... well, that's what RP is for. If you want your character to have intensely internalized the idea that they must wander off and sire children, then surely someone in their upbringing could've pushed that issue.

To give a more helpful answer, I don't see any grounds for discrimination regarding orientation in either Seeker or Keeper lore. But then I don't have the lore book, only what's accessible online.

Virella · **10-24-2016, 05:31 PM**

Sexual orientation is NOT an issue in Eorzea. I wrote a whole thread about whatever information I could gather in terms of sexuality in Eorzea, this might help you a little bit.

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread....#pid263527

That said, yes, I can see Miqo'te not being overly happy with it due to their 'duty' to their clan, but I don't think as long one of the two is a Nunh it is going to be an issue. The only real issue I can see is people not liking their interclan relationship, but that is about it.

Knight Kat · **10-24-2016, 05:39 PM**

This is guess-work based on observations of Miqo'te culture because there is just really nothing I've seen that gives us info on how they perceive same-sex couples.

You probably know Keeper males wander. While I don't see it as outside the realm of possibility that they visit their family on occasion, they are very independent, and live by their own individual creed. Because the Lorebook also states that family/sept (for Keepers) and tribe (for Seekers) customs vary a bit from group to group, I doubt Keeper males choose to abide by any one set of customs. As they visit other Keeper septs, they would encounter new customs they would have to adapt to for the short-term.

Emphasis on "be adaptable" means I doubt there would be any feeling of betraying a code or custom. However, a feeling that he might be discarding his role for the survival of his race might be there. But I think that depends on the character more than anything, and I would advise you do what you think is more fun to play around with.

Now, as for the man he's fallen for being a Seeker, we are also dealing with a lack of info. We know there are several half-Seeker half-Keeper NPCs in the game. I just still don't know how it's perceived. I assume there will be those who want to abide by Clan purity; otherwise, Seekers and Keepers would have merged long ago. But your character can't have biological children with this man he loves, so there is literally no "harm" aside from what I stated above.

Also, keep in mind the Goddess the Keepers worship the most is Menphina the Lover. There is argument that can be made for Keepers being accepting of love regardless of who that love is for.

In the end, the lack of specific info means you can do anything you want with this. Again, I'd say do what you think will be more fun to play out.

luxemas · **10-24-2016, 07:43 PM**

(10-24-2016, 05:31 PM)Virella Wrote: Sexual orientation is NOT an issue in Eorzea. I wrote a whole thread about whatever information I could gather in terms of sexuality in Eorzea, this might help you a little bit.

I did see this post! It was helpful and more or less cemented my idea that Eorzea on the whole doesn't condemn such things.

Still, I appreciate the input of everyone here since it does give me some perspective and impart some of their own personal interactions with such things. Given a lot of things regarding identity and orientation are very much related to personal attachment, that's mostly what I was trying to figure out and wanted to make a character who treats such things guided by the feelings in their heart rather than just a basic response to the popular societal opinion.

(10-24-2016, 05:39 PM)Knight Kat Wrote: Also, keep in mind the Goddess the Keepers worship the most is Menphina the Lover. There is argument that can be made for Keepers being accepting of love regardless of who that love is for.

Also thank you for reminding me of that. I know I've read that elsewhere and I knew about it but it kinda kept slipping my mind on how that can relate to personal story things.

Valence · **10-25-2016, 03:55 AM**

Probably would be seen as an oddity. But since male Keepers are mostly left on their own, wandering around, I really doubt that his... 'absence' in performing male duties will really be even noticed honestly. I'm sure they can do whatever the hell they want with little consequences (unlike male Seekers in a tribe).

Character dealing with culture complications (Love and Orientation stuff)

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