RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Aldotsk · **06-23-2013, 02:10 PM**

The problem is linkshell community than role-playing. Please remember that. If one cannot join a linkshell that he /she wants to join, then what? Make your own linkshell? What if one does not want to make a linkshell and they just want to join an active role-playing linkshell but cannot join them because they are new ? There are those veterans that will be like "it feels awkward having a new person in our circle."

I would not join a server just because there are role-players when I cant join their linkshell. There are more role-playing sessions with linkshells than a mere /shout.

Auralily · **06-23-2013, 02:24 PM**

Every linkshell on the server isn't going to turn down a player because they are new. I wouldn't even think a single linkshell would. And I know new linkshells will start up, the fact you can have several linkshells (7-8? I don't remember for sure) I'm willing to bet you will easily have a few. One dedicated to RP, one to end game, one for leveling or looking for group. I know I plan to start my own linkshell for a few of my friends and then seek an RP ls. Again, ultimately you need to do what you feel is best. But it seems you have a very bleak worst case scenerio outlook on all 1.0 player :/

FreelanceWizard · **06-23-2013, 02:30 PM**

(06-23-2013, 02:10 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: The problem is linkshell community than role-playing. Please remember that. If one cannot join a linkshell that he /she wants to join, then what? Make your own linkshell? What if one does not want to make a linkshell and they just want to join an active role-playing linkshell but cannot join them because they are new ? There are those veterans that will be like "it feels awkward having a new person in our circle."

I'd suggest that, since there'll be a massive influx of new players to this game, there'll also be an explosion of new LSs/FCs. I know that I've got a couple of ideas, though I'm not sure I'll have the time to run an LS/FC at this point in my life (no more playing from 2pm to 2am these days, I'm afraid Smile

). I wouldn't take the small quantity of largely 1.x LSs in the forums here, when we're still in beta 3, as indicative of what will exist at launch or even in beta 4. I will say, though, that new players need to be willing to jump into and support other new LSs/FCs if they want to create active, established, lively ones. "Become the change you want to see" and all that.

That said, I've observed established groups with long-time players do one or more of the following:

Dissolve the group when old player interest wanes, or when those old players want to transition to raiding, ignoring what the new players want;
Allow new players in, but leave them to their own devices and not interact with them;
Allow new players in, but treat them as "new blood" that needs to prove themselves to be invited along on adventures;
Close recruitment on the grounds of "wanting to get to know the new members," then never open it again;
RP with people not in an LS or FC, then not toss them an invitation to apply to yours if their character would fit;
Refuse to RP or group with people not in the LS or FC

All of those are problematic behaviors that LS/FC leaders should watch out for and work to correct. Now, proper leadership of a guild (regardless of what the game calls it) is a distinct topic to this one, so this is getting a little off-topic, but I hope this shows that there's a strong interest among 1.x players and both totally new to 2.x and "quit 1.x like a week in and are just now coming back" players in creating a strong, vibrant LS/FC community.

blackdrakon · **06-23-2013, 02:42 PM**

I really have to say that this topic has been beat to death by so many "what if" scenarios, some of you folks are actually talking yourselves out of something with absolutely no help from this community.

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"Many people here say that old players will be more than happy to help new players, but that's generally never the case."

'Generally', have you seen this NOT be the case with the Hydaelyn Roleplayers Coalition? With the implementation of a mentors program and numerous postings from members offering assistance to new players, this generalization is unfounded.

"Sure, there are a few good souls, but if its your first time in an instance, most of the time if you do something wrong, you get, "OMG, wtf noob??" instead of helpful criticism or instruction."

The few good souls make up this entire community. There have been some noted differences of opinion between the people here, but I have yet to see one of them chastising or criticizing another for their choice of role playing style. Anyone who thinks role playing is done via a standardized cookie cutter style sheet is delusional.

"I can say, as someone already mentioned, but it seems like with all the old established RP characters, cliche are already formed, and it wonder if it will be hard for new players to get into the RP."

Groups are already formed because people have history with each other. Noting back to one of my prior statements, these groups have done nothing but make it easy to get into RP by openly inviting new players to join them in their role playing activities. Look for them and take advantage.

"I joined in on Tera rather late, and its been near impossible for me to find RP there, because everyone has their groups already."

It is neither fair nor right to compare this community to any other community in any other game as this community is the FFXIV Hydaelyn Roleplayers Coalition; not the TERA community, not the WoW community, not the EQ2 community. This community is unique in it's own right with people who have a great deal of pride in stating they have one of the best RPing communities in any MMO out there right now.

"Let's say that I go to Balmung, and there are no Linkshells that will welcome me since all the senior communities want only the "old members" that they RPed with. Then what? Where would I belong in the community? Would I make a new Linkshell and have people join mine? Then what if these people who joined my Linkshell go off and say "I want to join the senior Linkshell community because they seem to have fun more than this and also their community is well built since 1.0"?

(1) Name a linkshell that refuses to welcome you based on your lack of time in game. (2) YOU have to make a concerted effort to WANT to belong. The offers are out there. People are constantly saying "we welcome you regardless". Some many take the angle of approaching you. Some might prefer members approach them. Either way, are they saying no? (3) Someone leaving your linkshell based on the fact that another linkshell is more senior to yours is shallow. If they're leaving because they're bored, then you might consider engaging your members to find out what you can do to make your linkshell more enjoyable or content rich to keep their attention.

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The point to all this is dig into the culture of this community and do your homework on certain things before you decide to toss out a bunch of generalized assumptions you think this community will fall prey to. There's nothing worse than a nay-sayer that's ignorant of the facts.

Auralily · **06-23-2013, 02:48 PM**

And two posts cleanly and concisely explain what my terrible rants could not xD Thank you. I'm going into the RP community optimistic, I hope others new to FFXVI, RP, or both can too!

Aldotsk · **06-23-2013, 03:01 PM**

Blackdrakon - people like yourself is a main reason new players are having trouble of considering to join this community. Its like implication of saying "if you have doubt about this community then why are you here?" But every legacy players would defend their community because they had been here Â longer than anyone else. But everyone had previous experience with previous players and other games regarding the communities. It is true that FFXIV is totally different from Tera, WoW, and possibly FFXI. But is it really any different? Â Also most FFXIV players from FFXI and there has been severe players that gave hard time to newcomers.

Telling someone to do their homework is just provoking players. Just saying.

EDIT: Also this thread is to help players find non-Legacy server to roleplay on if they dont want to join Balmung. So why are people (with legacy) keep pushing others to join a server where new players know that they wont even have chance to play with legacy players?

blackdrakon · **06-23-2013, 03:10 PM**

(06-23-2013, 03:01 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: Blackdrakon - people like yourself is a main reason new players are having trouble of considering to join this community. Its like implication of saying "if you have doubt about this community then why are you here?" But every legacy players would defend their community because they had been here Â longer than anyone else. But everyone had previous experience with previous players and other games regarding the communities. It is true that FFXIV is totally different from Tera, WoW, and possibly FFXI. But is it really any different? Â Also most FFXIV players from FFXI and there has been severe players that gave hard time to newcomers.

Telling someone to do their homework is just provoking players. Just saying.

How do you figure that to be true? I can't believe I'm saying this - Joining any community is like buying a car. Are you going to put your money down before you know what you're getting? I just finished making several points stating why this community is so open to new players. Yes, different MMOs offer up different communities because each MMO has a variable difference in how their environment promotes role playing.

And what type of players am I provoking by telling someone to educate themselves on the community they're about to enter when doing so benefits their transition into the community anyway?

Just saying.

Aldotsk · **06-23-2013, 03:48 PM**

(06-23-2013, 03:10 PM)blackdrakon Wrote: How do you figure that to be true? I can't believe I'm saying this - Joining any community is like buying a car. Are you going to put your money down before you know what you're getting? I just finished making several points stating why this community is so open to new players. Yes, different MMOs offer up different communities because each MMO has a variable difference in how their environment promotes role playing.

And what type of players am I provoking by telling someone to educate themselves on the community they're about to enter when doing so benefits their transition into the community anyway?

Just saying.

So in your words, joining this community is like buying a car - where I have to put down my consideration before I get what I want? Â That's quite a cliche metaphor there. Also if that's how you get cars, then that's quite a huge loss unfortunately.Â

Your several points doesn't really give any clarifications on why new people should expect that this community is open to them. Instead, you are bluntly telling them that we should "do some homework and learn to educate ourselves" that this community is different from what we have experienced before. Now, I have been in FFXI RP community (considering that there are FFXI RP players in here), and there has been a lot of anti-new player community before too. It was very hard to get into the RP interaction with the veteran players because they would be going into areas that new players can barely move around into, and they just would be like "let new players do their own thing. We can do our own thing instead."Â

So Hydaelyn Roleplaying Coalition is a "Friendly" community, but is it really newbie friendly to the community? I mean the only thing that I see that's considerable as "newbie friendly" is the Welcome Desk and nothing more. New players are having some hard time getting into the forum discussions. So do please enlighten me. Are you going to tell me that it is the players fault for not able to approach other veteran players properly? If that' s the case, then why are we having this forum for new players? Mentoring is a great idea, but that can take it up to many limits. Mentors can tolerate new member's RP skills, but when these new members go into the real field, they might not get what they expected from the experience they had with their mentors.Â

"This is a Hydaelyn Roleplaying Coalition, not EQ2, WoW, Tera" is a very cliche statement. Â What you are stating is nothing but saying "This group is better and superior than others because they accepted me and I accepted them. Therefore I support them and it is better than other community". What if there are better community than this? You are not helping new players like us to convince WHY we should join Balmung with other legacy players instead, you are just saying "quit your whining, and you put your own effort to be welcomed by others". Some players are not straightforward, and optimistic, or even confident to just approach and say "Excuse me, I'd like to join you guys". Â Even if they did say that, it's more of 50/50 that the others will accept this new player.

Also from other time when I posted about me shouting " I am looking for Roleplaying LS" in the town, you bluntly said in that post "Why in the world would you shout that? No one would Roleplay with you if you say that" - So this is another reason new players are discouraged of going to servers with veteran players with pre-made RP LS/groups.

Unfortunately, you are the one that is not helping, especially if you are trying to support this community and defending them, but also telling other new players making posts like "No one would tell you if you shout stuff like 'I am looking for roleplaying LS'". Especially when people have different ways of being initiative.Â

blackdrakon · **06-23-2013, 04:15 PM**

Aldotsk, I really don't even know where to begin with you. First off, don't put words in my mouth that never came out of it. The correct phrasing you should be using:

- Instead of "so in your words", you should be saying "So in my interpretation".
- Instead of "what you are stating is nothing but", you should be saying "what I understood that to mean was".
- Never did I use the words 'No one' wherein I used the word *I*. If you are going to [quote me] (post #34), do so correctly.

Again, doing your research on a community only benefits someone looking to get involved. It servers the purpose of helping that person to get a basic fundamental temperature on the general attitude and atmosphere of its participants. There may be a few elements of role playing communities that are universally common amongst MMOs - to what degree those commonalities are prevalent depends on the player base - but each MMO community, in its own right, is unique. There is no superiority complex coming from my statements. There are a series of simple statements of saying this community is more open to accepting and assisting new players get integrated. If you need any other reasons besides ones I've had, once again, read the boards. In reference to the Balmung comment, server choice was never brought up in my latest post here. Therefore, if you'd like to go back and forth within your own mind the argument of Balmung, I refer you back to the RP Discussion forum where there sits a 7 page thread on the matter of Balmung versus whatever.

Aldotsk · **06-23-2013, 04:29 PM**

(06-23-2013, 04:15 PM)blackdrakon Wrote: Aldotsk, I really don't even know where to begin with you. First off, don't put words in my mouth that never came out of it. The correct phrasing you should be using:

- Instead of "so in your words", you should be saying "So in my interpretation".
- Instead of "what you are stating is nothing but", you should be saying "what I understood that to mean was".
- Never did I use the words 'No one' wherein I used the word *I*. If you are going to [quote me] (post #34), do so correctly.

Again, doing your research on a community only benefits someone looking to get involved. It servers the purpose of helping that person to get a basic fundamental temperature on the general attitude and atmosphere of its participants. There may be a few elements of role playing communities that are universally common amongst MMOs - to what degree those commonalities are prevalent depends on the player base - but each MMO community, in its own right, is unique. There is no superiority complex coming from my statements. There are a series of simple statements of saying this community is more open to accepting and assisting new players get integrated. If you need any other reasons besides ones I've had, once again, read the boards. In reference to the Balmung comment, server choice was never brought up in my latest post here. Therefore, if you'd like to go back and forth within your own mind the argument of Balmung, I refer you back to the RP Discussion forum where there sits a 7 page thread on the matter of Balmung versus whatever.

Thank you for your grammar nazi statements that was very unnecessary, however I'll just take that as a grain of salt and deal with it. My statement still stays the same that you are simply defending this community because you personally feel welcomed and have friends in this community more than outsiders such as me. You may have not given "superiority complex" attitude to your own words, but to people like me was quite intimidating and provocative. I have read the boards as you have bolded to make sarcastic remarks, and yet that still doesn't convince me why I should feel welcomed to this community after your constant condescending attitude. MMO community to each of it's own may be unique, but people's personalities would not change. Instead of trying to convince a discouraged new players like me, you are instead aggravating them personally.Â

Personally, I find this whole argument between you to be rather more intimidating and condescending than me actually be convinced that I should listen to you. Especially the whole bolded words are a bit more than what I deserve.

Flynn Rosenberg · **06-23-2013, 04:47 PM**

Do you think this thread has served its purpose?

Averis · **06-23-2013, 05:03 PM**

I feel that some new players might be letting their fears get the better of them. You will get as much out of a community as you put into it. Of course you will find people hesitant and even flatly resistant to new players, but you can't also expect people to throw themselves at you either.

When I look to join a group or guild, I do a lot of research. I lurk forums etc. Some groups I know I won't really click with, while with others I can find a home. But when I do join a group, I don't expect them to come to me right away. I have to get involved. It also helps to be courteous. You should treat people how you would like to be treated. If you walk around with a chip on your shoulder or think that no one will accept you, then right there you are not going to be very inviting for others to get to know you. So you have to give a little of yourself in order for others to open up some too.

This is just human nature more than anything. People are naturally comfortable with what is familiar. But it's not like everyone started out knowing each other. They all had to get to know each other at some point. Just because you come in later doesn't somehow mean they can't accept any more people. It all depends on both sides being willing to get along.

Anyway, not all players from 1.0 are well established in the community. I played 1.0 but didn't get that involved in the community then after my LS fell apart. So I too am pretty much starting from scratch. So far, I never had the impression that anyone here was not inviting to new people.

I'm actually a little surprised by the reaction to this. While I get the desire to start on a fresh server and all, the community side of it is an odd thing to me to feel threatened by. There will always be jerks no matter where you go. Sure, getting in on the ground floor can be nice and all, but meeting people is the same no matter when you meet them. It's a give and take on both sides. I don't know why it's so important to meet people at the start of a new server compared to an old one. There will be a ton of new people on the legacy servers. We won't be alone even IF all the old guilds closed themselves off to all the new people.

blackdrakon · **06-23-2013, 05:10 PM**

(06-23-2013, 05:03 PM)Averis Wrote: I feel that some new players might be letting their fears get the better of them. You will get as much out of a community as you put into it. Of course you will find people hesitant and even flatly resistant to new players, but you can't also expect people to throw themselves at you either.

When I look to join a group or guild, I do a lot of research. I lurk forums etc. Some groups I know I won't really click with, while with others I can find a home. But when I do join a group, I don't expect them to come to me right away. I have to get involved. It also helps to be courteous. You should treat people how you would like to be treated. If you walk around with a chip on your shoulder or think that no one will accept you, then right there you are not going to be very inviting for others to get to know you. So you have to give a little of yourself in order for others to open up some too.

This is just human nature more than anything. People are naturally comfortable with what is familiar. But it's not like everyone started out knowing each other. They all had to get to know each other at some point. Just because you come in later doesn't somehow mean they can't accept any more people. It all depends on both sides being willing to get along.

Anyway, not all players from 1.0 are well established in the community. I played 1.0 but didn't get that involved in the community then after my LS fell apart. So I too am pretty much starting from scratch. So far, I never had the impression that anyone here was not inviting to new people.

I'm actually a little surprised by the reaction to this. While I get the desire to start on a fresh server and all, the community side of it is an odd thing to me to feel threatened by. There will always be jerks no matter where you go. Sure, getting in on the ground floor can be nice and all, but meeting people is the same no matter when you meet them. It's a give and take on both sides. I don't know why it's so important to meet people at the start of a new server compared to an old one. There will be a ton of new people on the legacy servers. We won't be alone even IF all the old guilds closed themselves off to all the new people.

^^^ This is what I've been trying to say, but Averis obviously managed to say it with a bit more tactfulness. Yes, I know full well how brash I am.

Asyria · **06-23-2013, 06:59 PM**

I understand how it feels to join an older community and feel discouraged about "fitting in". Indeed, I have often tried to jump into mmo's at launch "just to be sure" I'd have a chance.I have learned since then that a community's age and history has nothing to do with how easy it is to fit in.

The only two real factors are:
1- How willing one is to put effort into finding/making their place in the community.
2- How willing the community is to welcome new members.
As far as the RPC goes, I believe 2 isn't a problem at all.
That leaves 1 for individuals to figure out.

As far as I'm concerned, I might have been around in FF XIV's firxt incarnation Beta, it's been so long since I played, only a handful of old timers have any idea who the hell I am so I kinda feel like I'll have a lot of work to do to fit in too!
But yeah... not worried.

Rhio · **06-23-2013, 07:56 PM**

As someone who has taken part in a lot of roleplaying communities, the RPC is honestly the most welcoming one I've ever been a part of. The Blue Skies event last night seemed to be a particular case in point; both new and old players mingled, played, laughed, had fun, and enjoyed themselves, with no sense of "well, defer to the important people." Nor were there ironclad cliques of people - small groups formed, changed, dissolved, and found new anchors over time.

I've certainly been in places with unwelcoming overall atmospheres before, but that's really not the case in FFXIV, and I certainly don't see myself judging anyone based upon their willingness to tolerate 1.0's messy nature.

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