RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Ellie · **06-26-2013, 01:39 PM**

(06-26-2013, 01:22 PM)Averis Wrote: To the OP, the only problem I see coming from trying to restrict "random LS posts" to "LS updates" is that instead of other LS leaders getting annoyed at random LS banter bumping threads, they will get annoyed at the LS management staff posting random LS updates instead. IE the same end result except that they will be directing their annoyance at the LS leaders instead of just random LS members/interested parties. That may actually become a bigger problem and then more meetings will be redacted when LS leaders complain to other LS leaders that they are bumping their thread unfairly.

If this forum system is anything like PHPBB, maybe place all LS leaders into a separate "group" so that you can apply permissions to just that group to post in the LS section. But still, the above problem will likely come up anyway.

Restricting the Linkshell Hall to linkshell leaders crossed my mind as well, but I'm afraid it would make it so that members cannot create their linkshells freely, they'd have to wait for a moderator to give them the permissions.

As for people trying to bump their threads with contrived updates, I think that's fine so long as they actually have an actual update. After a while it might be hard to find something new to say about their linkshell.

Mtoto Wamoto · **06-26-2013, 01:48 PM**

*sigh* Seems like every day, there's a new dilemma on the RPC. I can't speak for anyone else, but I find it disheartening to see such trivialÂ issues get so out of hand and out of context to the point where the subject matter at hand is just flopping back and forth.

I'll speak my mind and leave it at that since I'd rather not get too involved in this thread.

First thing's first since the topic has...shifted.Â

(06-26-2013, 08:38 AM)Kylin Wrote: Hey guys, this has recently become a minor problem so I wanted to make a quick post about it.Â

Threads in the Linkshell Hall are being constantly bumped lately when not needed. At least a couple of other LS leaders have become agitated by it and I'd rather a bumping war not start anytime soon.Â

Please limit posts in the Linkshell Hall to primarily updates about the shell in general. Random commentary such as "cool concept!" or "looking forward to RPing with this group" are unnecessary. A high volume of the recent comments in this part of the forum can/should be kept in PMs. Constant bumping of threads to the top of the list can stir up a competitive atmosphere and unfriendly feelings toward said shells.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter!

I don't think that we should necessary "prohibit" (which is the impression I'm getting from this) people from using the linkshell hall to discuss things privy to the linkshells. People who are interested, wish to support a linkshell through kind words, or offer suggestions on the linkshell page, should be able to. Likewise, the linkshell page serves as a easy way for open communication between its linkshell members and the rest of the community on the RPC. Telling us we shouldn't do that would only serve to cause players to migrate back to their own individual sites and do communication there. If the RPC is suppose to be a central hub for roleplayers, allow it to use the tools to do so, rather than make things even more complicated than need be. Creating a entirely separate thread simply for discussion seems silly and unnecessary and would really just clutter up the forums even more. I was under the impression the revisions to the forums were done to streamline things and make things much more presentable.Â

Further, this isn't a competition or a popularity contest, and as much as my knowledge goes, I don't think anyone who has posted in the linkshell hall pages have tried to insinuate such behavior. Rather, the things people are posting on those pages have been largelyÂ supportive and good-natured. This is what the RPC should be breeding and striving to maintain, instead we have threads cropping up which serve only to cause infighting and needless conflict. Linkshell leaders and mods of the RPC, if you don't want linkshell hall related threads that show up on the main forum's recent topics list anytime they are posted in, perhaps you should consider making a completely separate forum for the linkshell hall which is independent of the main forum and have it be organized in alphabetical order. This can be done on Guildwork and Enjin, so I don't think its beyond the realm of possibility to have it function in the same manner here.Â

Lastly, it's of my own personal opinion that many of the recent attempts to "quell" and "expunge" a seemingly unfriendly and divided atmosphere are actually doing the opposite, further propagating and elevating the undue stress, drama, and conflict amongst ourselves. Unnecessary polls to decide the direction of the community, telling us to limit public link shell interactions on a public forum, and having linkshell leader meetings (which were made to discuss cross LS RP and events mind you) are slowly taking on this undertone of a council established to decide the future of the community based on what the heads of a few groups feel. I know I'm not alone when I speak on these concerns.

I know everyone is trying to speak on things with good intent and what they believe is the best for the community, but please, let's stop trying to govern the community at large. The RPC doesn't need a governing body, only basic moderation. The RPC should only ever serve as an open place for the public to speak on RP happenings and promote cross-character interactions. If a "couple" people take offense that a few groups are trying to be open and active, perhaps they should take a step back and see what the real issue at hand is. If they feel like they're in "competition" against other link shells, they are looking at the community with the wrong mindset to begin with. We shouldn't feel like we're competing against one another, after all, we're working together in cooperation because we are a community. Otherwise, we're nothing but a handful island nations in a vast sea called separation. Linkshells who feel like they're being drowned should work to be more open, more willing to speak to new players outside of welcome threads, and work to interact publicly in hopes to further facilitate open ended communications. Based on the original purpose of this thread alone, I feel as if the people who are trying to be open and supportive are being punished because others are choosing to be less open.

Again, I can only speak for myself and myself alone, but I feel there are those who are with me when I say that the trivial and petty conflicts which are cropping up on this site are only serving to push people away from the RPC.

Averis · **06-26-2013, 01:50 PM**

(06-26-2013, 01:39 PM)Ellie Wrote: Restricting the Linkshell Hall to linkshell leaders crossed my mind as well, but I'm afraid it would make it so that members cannot create their linkshells freely, they'd have to wait for a moderator to give them the permissions.

Sure, I certainly know how that is, it was just a thought if this is something that the LS leaders felt strongly about. There could easily be a new section for LS concepts (since we get a lot of that already) so people can discus a new LS while they wait for their access to post in the listing, which shouldn't take more than a day anyway in normal circumstances. Just saying, it's an option to control the situation without anyone having room to argue that "posts are being bumped unfairly by random people" etc.

(06-26-2013, 01:39 PM)Ellie Wrote: As for people trying to bump their threads with contrived updates, I think that's fine so long as they actually have an actual update. After a while it might be hard to find something new to say about their linkshell.

Well, if the LS leaders are already annoyed by "random" people posting/bumping threads, it's not too far of a stretch to imagine that they would be more annoyed by LS leaders that just seem to have news to post about their guild everyday. "You shouldn't post each time to get a new member.", "You shouldn't post each time to update your site.", "You shouldn't post to congratulate your LS each time they beat a dungeon." etc etc.

I'm just playing devils advocate here. I know the drama that can and has happened. Sometimes it only take a little thing to turn into a big issue because someone felt something was unfair, then a group backs each side and then you have a problem. "Why shouldn't I post about that kind of news. I'm proud of my LS" "You need to post only important things!" "To us those are important!" etc. You get the idea.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I personally feel that the LS posts should remains open. I'm just offering suggestions, even if I don't agree with them since it's not ultimately my decision. (I like to be helpful). But, seriously, each LS is different, there really isn't a competition between them when they are not the same and will not appeal to every potential new member anyway. Maybe having a "directory" at the top would help matters some?

I also agree with the above post. Good job!

Curtis West · **06-26-2013, 02:14 PM**

Seems like the trend is a minority of people who are easily upset at certain things bugging the administration to act on their feelings. Then when the administration acts on these things, be it telling people no not post in threads (this is a community forum) or locking threads that have no reason to be locked, etc... those actions make me draw away from the RPC and see the community in worse light than I had originally. If I feel that way, I am sure other new people do too.

Averis · **06-26-2013, 02:23 PM**

(06-26-2013, 02:14 PM)Curtis West Wrote: Seems like the trend is a minority of people who are easily upset at certain things bugging the administration to act on their feelings.

This happens in almost all communities online. I manage a couple myself and you really have to learn when to draw the line, but it can be hard when you want to be helpful to your members. Too, you might not always be aware of the full situation from all sides. So sometimes you get blindsided with a complaint when you didn't even realize it was an issue in the first place. I certainly sympathize with moderators, it can be a hard, thankless, job.

Sorry, off topic...

Orlog · **06-26-2013, 02:32 PM**

(06-26-2013, 02:14 PM)Curtis West Wrote: Seems like the trend is a minority of people who are easily upset at certain things bugging the administration to act on their feelings. Then when the administration acts on these things, be it telling people no not post in threads (this is a community forum) or locking threads that have no reason to be locked, etc... those actions make me draw away from the RPC and see the community in worse light than I had originally. If I feel that way, I am sure other new people do too.

Agreed here. I understand that we're trying to work here to keep people happy as best as we can, but it needs to be understood that everyone is going to be upset about something, no matter what we do. A lot of the things that seem to be causing turmoil within the community these days always seem to be so tiny, but get farther because these people seem to cry out the loudest. This isn't really a mentality that I'd like to see between a community of grown adults.

I know this kind of stuff was discussed in the LS meetings, but for some reason some didn't want to "open that can of worms". I guess I'm glad that this issue is seeing the light of day more; the general consensus being that it's completely unacceptable.

With that being said, I see no reason to lock LS threads or take away the ability for people to discuss matters related to the LS in said thread. However, if it's the owner, or someone affiliated with the group constantly bumping the thread in order to try to be at the top of the list... ? Well, I'm pretty sure that's not wanted here, but I'm unsure if the above is actually happening or not.

Eva · **06-26-2013, 02:33 PM**

I agree with you Curtis. I admit I've felt a bit more hostility here lately as well, and I can understand why some groups have, in the past, withdrawn from the RPC more than others. I think this is unfortunate and I do think we should be acting more in the spirit of cooperation and collaboration rather than competing with one another.

This particular issue doesn't directly impact our group since recruitment is temporarily closed within Crystalline for in-character reasons anyway (not because we're not looking forward to RPing with new folks - we really are!). So I suppose maybe I'm a good neutral voice?

I don't think there's any harm in the bumping of certain linkshell threads for the purpose of asking questions and such. I'll confess I had been under the assumption at first that it was designed to operate the same way that it was in the previous RPC where bumps were only intended for LS news update, so I was surprised at first. But as long as the material is relevent and appropriate to open discussion in public, I don't see any harm in this.

Just as a point of clarification, the previous iteration of the RPC did have a separate 'pub' forum for discussing particular aspects of a LS, or providing a separate forum for Q&A. This was removed for the sake of cleaning up the forums, and this seems like a good alternative, as long as things aren't really being bumped senselessly - but even what is 'senseless' is going to be a polarizing matter that would likely stir up some folks.

As long as Inactive or Disbanded groups are removed promptly to help avoid confusion, I don't think it matters greatly what order the threads appear in.

Curtis West · **06-26-2013, 02:35 PM**

I tend to trust the leaders / admins to have a good sense of judgement until it's proven otherwise. For example, when it comes to examining the evidence for why a member is upset and making a judgment call, going case by case basis. Does this member have a reputation of complaining about everything? Are there truly inflammatory things said or are the hurt feelings unjustified? Is LS thread bumping an issue worthy of being brought up and moderated? How would that make other people feel who previously had no issues?

These are some questions I trust the moderators / leaders to consider. Personally, I think this is a non-issue and the administration is going overboard policing this. I honestly am disappointed with whoever complained about this, too. It shows a lack of... I don't even know, being a good sport? Seeing other guilds as competition rather than friends you want to succeed... Not cool.

Magellan · **06-26-2013, 02:35 PM**

I like Mtoto's post: I am very happy with the LS I have found, yet I still visit other LS pages when the idea sounds good and offer my vocal support. Why is this a bad thing? I've seen nothing but positive interactions on these LS pages, and no signs of competition or putting othr LS down.

If the LS forum has a 'look don't touch' mentality, newcomers will miss out on a chance to interact with that community, maybe become allies, friends, or members!

Kylin · **06-26-2013, 02:40 PM**

I don't like the fact that this is turning into a quasi-witch hunt accusing those who had legitimate concerns of having a 'wrong' opinion.

This is pretty much a moot point now anyway, as I'll be creating a new "pub" type of section similar to the past for these kind of LS discussions/commentary. It'll probably get nuked/merged with the RP Discussion thread several months post-launch when things die down. But for now, I think that's the perfect middle of the road solution.

Edit: For the record, I'm also a bit insulted at the assumption that I "caved" to a "minority's" demands.

Yssen · **06-26-2013, 02:48 PM**

Personally, I am not seeing the issue with having the discussions and listings for the linkshells in the community being in the same place. In point of fact, I think that them being in the same place is a good thing. It fosters discussion and inclusion regarding linkshells in a quick and easy manner. This is overall a good thing. I do not believe that an entire different forum section is needed for these. We had it on the old RPC and it was a little bit confusing to be honest. Besides, creating this section will not really solve this bumping issue.

ArmachiA · **06-26-2013, 02:57 PM**

Ohh... see I was under the impression we were still operating under the old RPC rules (Updates only). I'm fine with people posting in their Guild's thread, though. It may seem spammy, but the best way for a new person to see how a Guild handle's themselves is to read their very own thread.

Our thread is so serious, no one knows we're a bunch of goofballs.

faceman7381 · **06-26-2013, 03:06 PM**

As a linkshell leader, I don't really consider it bumping and the like.

This is also coming from me, leader of The Seven where my forum posts under there are only 3 and those are the only 3 under it.

If other shells have lots of posts on them, good for them!

I think if someone is shopping for shells, they will look at every shell if they are serious about finding the right one, no matter how many posts, views, or order they are listed in.

And if we loose a member to someone who has a higher posts count, listing and/or view count GOOD, because the COMMUNITY still gains another member who has found what they see as the right home for them!

However, I would NEVER say Kylin was caving to anyone.Â He is trying to address issues that are brought to him by people (and I do not know what they are or who brings them up) the best way he can.Â

I hope also that no one thinks that I or any of the linkshell leaders are some ruling council.Â I was at the meeting and left before anything was ven discussed due to time constraints.Â However, I do know there were some leaders really sticking up for new players in there and raising their concerns.

The community is going through growing pains right now because there has never been a game where it was played for 2 years, rebuilt, shut down and then asked the old and new community to get back together and be as one.

There are no examples to follow here.Â I think everyone, both old and new, are doing the best they can for what it is worth.Â This is actually a really cool social experiment to view here.Â We should all be thankful we are having the chance to partake in it and making history as part of the first game to successful relaunch and come back bigger than its prior version.

Ashren Dotharl · **06-26-2013, 03:52 PM**

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that we are in beta, and the tests are a week a part, so people don't know what to do with themselves between tests. It's already been said before, but once the game goes live and people are spending more time in game than on the forums the problems will die down.

One thing though to keep in mind is that you can join up to eight different Linkshells, which kind of reduces the level of competition really because certain characters are more than capable of joining different groups and participating. Granted, most people will usually have a "main" LS they stick with more than others, but it still doesn't stop a person from joining more than one in game, or even groups from roleplaying with others.

I built the concept for my Linkshell around the idea that we would be cooperating proactively with other Linkshells when need be, because I'd much rather have my members be a part of the community than get caught up in isolated inner guild RP.

Curtis West · **06-26-2013, 04:12 PM**

Kylin,

I am not sure if you are addressing me specifically, but I think you might be, so I'll try to clear things up. I think there is a significant difference between what I wrote and what you may be picking up. I hope this is not an issue that will come up repeatedly, since I do my best to genuinely present myself as a good mannered individual. I care about that reputation, and I will seriously approach claims of the opposite that don't have clear evidence. I will walk through the post to elaborate any points which may have rubbed you the wrong way so that we're left on a better ground.

>Note that I said I generallyÂ trust the administration to do the right thing.
>I alsoÂ never said you cavedÂ on anything, that word was never used in my posts. I do believe you acted on a request, which is generally a good thing don't get me wrong. In this instance though, it proved to be a little overkill... and I think we can both agree to that if cooler minds prevail. Heck that's why the Pub section will be used instead of simply killing off any comments.Â
>I am not sure what quasi-witch hunt means, but I certainly think an individual should be responsible for his or her claims or points of view. For example the idea of "competition" among groups in this community should not be endorsed but eliminated. It is a toxic idea, and those who even have that notion in their heads should be ashamed. I stand by this.
>I don't find their concerns legitimate. You have but to look at other posts in this thread by LS leaders and well respected individuals in this community for all the reasons why it's not.
>I do apologize for using the word "minority" - I have no clue how many people feel that "bumping" as it currently stands is a problem. Given the replies here though I don't believe it to be a majority, but that's neither here nor there.

I hope that we can move forward without wrong assumptions about each other. Again, I am sorry for hurting feelings (if any were hurt), I am just a bit surprised by administrative action due to these particular claims. I still trust you and Ellie as leaders, I know it may not mean much coming from a newbie of the group, but I just want to assure you that I do not disrespect you because of something minor like this. The Pub section should be a good addition to the forumsÂ Heart

« Next Oldest \| Next Newest »
Pages (3): « Previous 1 2 3 Next »

Linkshell Hall Bumping

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes