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MrSongarg · **07-05-2017, 01:57 PM**

So just a basic question for someone who's still trying his footing in FF14 RP: What is the legitimacy of Jobs in RP?

Like, I'm loving Red Mage, but the class quest make clear there's only one Red Mage left. Same thing for White Mage, it's a big thing for you to be granted the Soul Crystal of one.

Does this mean most Jobs are frowned upon in RP?

Gegenji · **07-05-2017, 02:30 PM**

I was hunting for the relevant thread since I think something similar got asked not too long ago, but I seem to be selectively blind and cannot find it. Hopefully someone else will see it and provide a link, since I think it included a fan-made "tier list" of job-class versus how believable playing one is.

... Mostly because how "easy" it is to play a Job in RP is going to depend on the job itself. White Mage, as you said, is kind of restricted due to only the Padjali being the only real "practitioners" of it save for the Warrior of Light. Same with Dragoons now that the number of active practicing Dragoons was listed in the lore book. Conversely, however, you have Paladins - which include the Sultansworn, along with a bunch of Free Paladins who just go around helping people. You have a whole retinue of Machinists being trained up in order to modernize the Ishgardian military.

However, even with the more "restrictive" jobs... there's ways you can explain away why your character has those skills without horribly breaking the lore. The Dragoon list is for active duty members, it doesn't include those in training or those who may have retired. Your character could have stumbled across a soul crystal and writings about Succor while delving into an Amdaporian ruin.

Even with Red Mage, there's another tack you can take with it. The RDM quest giver is the last of the "Crimson Duelists," a specific group of RDMs who aided the Ala Mhigan forces. That doesn't mean there aren't other groups of RDMs out there. And, on top of that, he's been pretty open in his teachings - considering he trains up three different people by himself in handling Red Magic.

So... there really isn't a definitive answer. What jobs you can "play" ICly depend heavily both on how you explain it for your character, the group you're RPing with and how far they're willing to bend the lore, and just how restrictive the job is based off the lore to begin with.

Arashin Kujqai · **07-05-2017, 03:09 PM**

I personally use this ever since it got linked to me.

http://kilieit.tumblr.com/post/159315531...al-in-lore

Made by @Kilieit (I wish I could tag him lol)

The Samurai and Red Mage section haven't been added yet but it doesn't seem like either are too binding from their quest's lore. Red mages apparently start at the basics of thaumaturgy and conjury, then you practicing using these techniques while using specific sword techniques to handle your own natural mana better. Basically by channeling weaker spells through the sword, you leave some aether in your sword or physical being(the wording on the quest is so odd), to use in your next dualcasted spell. Your mana is basically a muscle, you use it and then use the aether leftover from the first cast to amplify and accelerate the cast of your next spell. Then unleashing the magic enchanted into your sword through melee attacks.

In other words, you can either obtain a soul crystal somehow, maybe from a fallen Crimson Duelist, or perhaps a Red Mage that fell in the past, or your character trains itself in a way to discover Red Magic naturally. Don't take my word for it, but that's been how it's been discussed in our red mage discord. Doesn't seem like the soul crystal is any form of contract like the black mage one allowing you to use higher strength skills without killing yourself or etc. Just a knowledge cheat sheet.

Yian Kutku · **07-06-2017, 07:48 AM**

(07-05-2017, 03:09 PM)Valic Wrote: I personally use this ever since it got linked to me.

http://kilieit.tumblr.com/post/159315531...al-in-lore

Made by @Kilieit (I wish I could tag him lol)

That's an amazing resource. I was thinking of making something like it, but that's a lot more informative and in-depth than I could have done.

Bookmarking for plenty of further use.

Gegenji · **07-06-2017, 08:39 AM**

That was actually why I was looking for the relevant thread, I remembered Kilieit had made that tier list and linked it somewhere... but didn't have the link on hand. Blush

Valence · **07-06-2017, 09:09 AM**

Don't forget a soulstone isn't an open book. It only opens and offers its various degrees of knowledge to the one showing the right amount of maturity and skill.

Erah'sae · **07-06-2017, 10:19 AM**

(07-05-2017, 01:57 PM)MrSongarg Wrote: So just a basic question for someone who's still trying his footing in FF14 RP: What is the legitimacy of Jobs in RP?

Like, I'm loving Red Mage, but the class quest make clear there's only one Red Mage left. Same thing for White Mage, it's a big thing for you to be granted the Soul Crystal of one.

Does this mean most Jobs are frowned upon in RP?

He's the last 'traditional red mage' but he's been going around taking apprentices. Â He tells you of one he previously trained and he picked up another apprentice after the main character.

Who's to say once the cat is out of the bag, more don't follow?

(Note: I have not finished the red mage story quests, mine is only level 67)

Casa Kai · **07-06-2017, 12:59 PM**

The only two you will have a hard time justifying would be Black Mage and White Mage but even with those two you can just be a Thamaturge or Conjurer which for spell casting purposes pretty much do the same thing. Everything else you could feasibly find a way to justify your character being one.

Erah'sae · **07-06-2017, 01:37 PM**

(07-06-2017, 12:59 PM)Casa Kai Wrote: The only two you will have a hard time justifying would be Black Mage and White Mage but even with those two you can just be a Thamaturge or Conjurer which for spell casting purposes pretty much do the same thing. Everything else you could feasibly find a way to justify your character being one.

Even those got a little easier to justify given the Red Mage story. Â There were survivors of Mhach and Amdapor in Gyr Abania. Â It's feasibleÂ that others survived as well that still practice the White or the Black besides those that decided "we're going to cross train now".

yhvh13 · **07-07-2017, 12:13 AM**

I'm new to the lore, but I've been reading a lot and through the quests and for these I can take:

SMN: You could go a similar route that the summoner trainees from Ul'dah are - this seem to be the easiest route.
SCH: The WoL finds a soulstone in a pretty much trivial way, nothing impedes you to dig or find one in a similar way.
MCH: I just started leveling mine, but it seems that it's pretty much just a matter of enrolling into the guild and having a soulstone tailored for you to imprint knowledge into. (correct me if I'm wrong)
AST: It would be sort of special for you to find a soulstone, but apparently a more simple way is make your character a Sharlayan that is training AST magicks.
WHM: From the jobs I know, this seems to be the hardest one to justify, as the level of uniqueness suprasses the others by miles. I don't have any ideas on this, and probably would just RP a really good conjurer instead.
RDM: The npc seem to be a member of a faction of Red Mages. Nothing impede your character coming from another faction. Plus Alisae says loud and clear that she met a miqo'te that taught her "the basics" implying that she doesn't really have a stone.Â

Also, besides a few exceptions, why does one really need to have a stone of ancient times to be ICly any of these jobs? My interpretation is that they serve more like shortcuts to knowledge (in the hand of people that are attuned to them).

Y'mthria is not a summoner per se, but she hoards all the knowledge. Why isn't possible that she could guide young summoners with the basics? Obviously you'd have to RP it really as an initiate, even less than the Ul'dah summoners that have stones.

L'ohba Tia · **07-07-2017, 12:56 AM**

(07-07-2017, 12:13 AM)yhvh13 Wrote: I'm new to the lore, but I've been reading a lot and through the quests and for these I can take:

SMN: You could go a similar route that the summoner trainees from Ul'dah are - this seem to be the easiest route.
SCH: The WoL finds a soulstone in a pretty much trivial way, nothing impedes you to dig or find one in a similar way.
MCH: I just started leveling mine, but it seems that it's pretty much just a matter of enrolling into the guild and having a soulstone tailored for you to imprint knowledge into. (correct me if I'm wrong)
AST: It would be sort of special for you to find a soulstone, but apparently a more simple way is make your character a Sharlayan that is training AST magicks.
WHM: From the jobs I know, this seems to be the hardest one to justify, as the level of uniqueness suprasses the others by miles. I don't have any ideas on this, and probably would just RP a really good conjurer instead.
RDM: The npc seem to be a member of a faction of Red Mages. Nothing impede your character coming from another faction. Plus Alisae says loud and clear that she met a miqo'te that taught her "the basics" implying that she doesn't really have a stone.Â

Also, besides a few exceptions, why does one really need to have a stone of ancient times to be ICly any of these jobs? My interpretation is that they serve more like shortcuts to knowledge (in the hand of people that are attuned to them).

Y'mthria is not a summoner per se, but she hoards all the knowledge. Why isn't possible that she could guide young summoners with the basics? Obviously you'd have to RP it really as an initiate, even less than the Ul'dah summoners that have stones.

You're right that most jobs are absolutely accessible. Even WHM and BLM are acceptable with the proper backstories. You just can't openly be one of those. Some jobs do require soul crystals to function, though. The SMN questline tells us that even the original Allagan SMNs required soul crystals for some reason, I'm guessing as a medium for channeling egis. SCHs require one to store their faerie in so that it can retain memories and its personality. BLMs require one to avoid setting their insides on fire. And if I remember right, MCH uses theirs as a medium for the aetheroconverter.

Kieron Lohengrin · **07-07-2017, 02:19 AM**

(07-07-2017, 12:56 AM)Lohba Tia Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:13 AM)yhvh13 Wrote: I'm new to the lore, but I've been reading a lot and through the quests and for these I can take:

SMN: You could go a similar route that the summoner trainees from Ul'dah are - this seem to be the easiest route.
SCH: The WoL finds a soulstone in a pretty much trivial way, nothing impedes you to dig or find one in a similar way.
MCH: I just started leveling mine, but it seems that it's pretty much just a matter of enrolling into the guild and having a soulstone tailored for you to imprint knowledge into. (correct me if I'm wrong)
AST: It would be sort of special for you to find a soulstone, but apparently a more simple way is make your character a Sharlayan that is training AST magicks.
WHM: From the jobs I know, this seems to be the hardest one to justify, as the level of uniqueness suprasses the others by miles. I don't have any ideas on this, and probably would just RP a really good conjurer instead.
RDM: The npc seem to be a member of a faction of Red Mages. Nothing impede your character coming from another faction. Plus Alisae says loud and clear that she met a miqo'te that taught her "the basics" implying that she doesn't really have a stone.Â

Also, besides a few exceptions, why does one really need to have a stone of ancient times to be ICly any of these jobs? My interpretation is that they serve more like shortcuts to knowledge (in the hand of people that are attuned to them).

Y'mthria is not a summoner per se, but she hoards all the knowledge. Why isn't possible that she could guide young summoners with the basics? Obviously you'd have to RP it really as an initiate, even less than the Ul'dah summoners that have stones.

You're right that most jobs are absolutely accessible. Even WHM and BLM are acceptable with the proper backstories. You just can't openly be one of those. Some jobs do require soul crystals to function, though. The SMN questline tells us that even the original Allagan SMNs required soul crystals for some reason, I'm guessing as a medium for channeling egis. SCHs require one to store their faerie in so that it can retain memories and its personality. BLMs require one to avoid setting their insides on fire. And if I remember right, MCH uses theirs as a medium for the aetheroconverter.

To add to this, there's nothing stopping most PCs from having received training and techniques in their backstory from someone who was actually that job. "Retired job X, formerly of organization Y" is a common enough trope.

For example: your monk may not have been around during the fall of Ala Mhigo, but he or she may have met and learned from one of the last surviving, wandering Fists of Rhalgr.

You can't unilaterally declare yourself the new Azure Dragoon, but you can certainly forge yourself a set of spiky replica armor and try jumping.

With Stormblood I'm interested in how magical techniques and traditions vary across continents. Is Othard conjury Shinto-inspired and kami-dependent, as the dungeon armor drops seem to suggest? How powerful and destructive is Sadu's raw, primal thaumaturgy compared to forbidden BLM arts? Your non-job allies in the Scions are still some of the most powerful adventurers in the realm, what exactly did Louisoix teach them back in Sharlayan?

More often than not, framing your character as "I studied how to do technique skillset X" is a more flexible option than "I live breathe and am fully job Y, with all the complications, obligations, and questions that entails."

yhvh13 · **07-07-2017, 09:33 AM**

(07-07-2017, 12:56 AM)L Wrote: You're right that most jobs are absolutely accessible. Even WHM and BLM are acceptable with the proper backstories. You just can't openly be one of those. Some jobs do require soul crystals to function, though. The SMN questline tells us that even the original Allagan SMNs required soul crystals for some reason, I'm guessing as a medium for channeling egis. SCHs require one to store their faerie in so that it can retain memories and its personality. BLMs require one to avoid setting their insides on fire. And if I remember right, MCH uses theirs as a medium for the aetheroconverter.

Oh thanks for this clarification! Still, I wonder how expensive or difficult is for someone to order a soul crystal to be made. I believe isn't a trivial matter to have that setup to be a Job, taken they are supposedly "advanced" warriors.

Gegenji · **07-07-2017, 10:14 AM**

(07-07-2017, 09:33 AM)yhvh13 Wrote:
(07-07-2017, 12:56 AM)L Wrote: You're right that most jobs are absolutely accessible. Even WHM and BLM are acceptable with the proper backstories. You just can't openly be one of those. Some jobs do require soul crystals to function, though. The SMN questline tells us that even the original Allagan SMNs required soul crystals for some reason, I'm guessing as a medium for channeling egis. SCHs require one to store their faerie in so that it can retain memories and its personality. BLMs require one to avoid setting their insides on fire. And if I remember right, MCH uses theirs as a medium for the aetheroconverter.

Oh thanks for this clarification! Still, I wonder how expensive or difficult is for someone to order a soul crystal to be made. I believe isn't a trivial matter to have that setup to be a Job, taken they are supposedly "advanced" warriors.

Making a soul crystal itself is likely not entirely a difficult task - the Machinists of Ishgard apparently have a great enough supply to utilize them with their aethertransformers. The issue lies in the knowledge and skill that needs to be imparted into the crystal, as I don't think any lore states how easily or quickly such information can be "absorbed" into a new soul crystal.

For example, if a Black Mage were to take a blank soul crystal with them... how long until it can successfully be passed on to another? Or can special ones like the BLM (and possibly SCH, given the need to tether a Fairy to it) not be created anymore without further delving into the processes in which the older ones were made?

Virella · **07-07-2017, 10:18 AM**

There's more Fist of Rhalgr surviving, they just appear to be in hiding (I suspect them to come out and riot next patch though. Crossing my fingers). They continue to state that during the questlines several times over and over.

So I'd... not go the route of going "Well, my character was trained by the last surviving nobility of Ala Mhigo", because eh, while no one will stop you, I think some random, made up older Monk NPC might be a lot less... controversial.

Or you could just avoid the problem all together, and for an older Fist who simply was at one of the 4843743874873 temples they had. Besides, I personally find older Fist a lot more believable due to the fact they had to endure an absurd training from childhood on. Your character will simply have lacked the community, temples, scriptures ect ect. So they are unlikely to be on par with the Monks who were trained from childhood to adulthood back in Gyr Abania's temple. (Plus you get to roleplay all that delicious drama and conflict regarding the purge of your Brother and Sisters, the resentment, guilt, anger. WHY YOU WANT TO MISS OUT ON THE BEST PART I STILL DON'T KNOW? Older Ala Mhigans are so much more interesting to me in general. Because all the super interesting lore and events happened around the King of Ruin. Anyhow...)

But each to their own! I'd still suggest not going with the quest NPC, due to your character well... being close to a pretty important NPC. Just make sure that you read up about Monks, as they are still very much indeed simply Rhalgr's priests. Who can kick you in the face. No really, there's quite a few 'guidelines' with Monks, in terms of what you cannot and can wear, whether you can have a soulstone ect yadayada. Heresy still be a real thing for them after all!

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