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Zeizei · **07-12-2017, 05:09 PM**

(07-12-2017, 03:50 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(07-12-2017, 03:46 PM)Virella Wrote: So let me get this right, RDM basically gets the Monk treatment?

You either RP the Chosen One by finding an older Red Mage to train you, or you are an 'older' Ala Mhigan who was trained back in the days?

Mmm. Not so much. There's texts apparently that describe Red Magic out there. You go looking around some ruins in Gyr Abania for some texts during one of the 60+ RDM quests.

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I mean, you also go into the Great Gubal Library, but it's to find out about the Nightkin... though I'd be surprised if the Sharlayans didn't have anything on Red Magic.

I haven't gotten that far in the RDM quests, but I had assumed that there must exist some texts out there on it, so this is good to know! Â The character concept I've already been rolling with is someone who's learned what she knows via a stolen book (and is probably as dangerous to herself as anyone else). Â

It also leaves opportunities for someone to come looking for a book that was stolen 10 some years ago!

Virella · **07-12-2017, 05:12 PM**

Eeeeh. I'd be careful with that until stated otherwise. The King of Ruin was very successful about burning the Monk's scriptures and scrolls down to the ground as well.

Tyndles · **07-12-2017, 05:30 PM**

Don't be a Crimson Duelist, and don't be a "master" of red magic and I imagine it's okay. Like I'm RPing Boulder as just beginning in his quest to learn Red Magic. It might be a little bit of a stretch, but now that there is contact beyond the wall, and in the questline itself they want to teach, I dont see why not.

Gegenji · **07-12-2017, 05:33 PM**

(07-12-2017, 05:12 PM)Virella Wrote: Eeeeh. I'd be careful with that until stated otherwise. The King of Ruin was very successful about burning the Monk's scriptures and scrolls down to the ground as well.

To be fair, the texts you're finding are not in super great condition. Of course, the one you need just so happens to have enough of it readable to solve the problem at hand, so... *shrug?*

Virella · **07-12-2017, 05:35 PM**

(07-12-2017, 05:30 PM)Tyndles Wrote: Don't be a Crimson Duelist, and don't be a "master" of red magic and I imagine it's okay. Â Like I'm RPing Boulder as just beginning in his quest to learn Red Magic. Â It might be a little bit of a stretch, but now that there is contact beyond the wall, and in the questline itself they want to teach, I dont see why not.

Aye, don't think that's too far fetched from what I've read so far.

It just seems to me a bit far-fetched to find super detailed tomes just casually laying around for the grabbing.

Gegenji · **07-12-2017, 05:54 PM**

(07-12-2017, 05:35 PM)Virella Wrote:
(07-12-2017, 05:30 PM)Tyndles Wrote: Don't be a Crimson Duelist, and don't be a "master" of red magic and I imagine it's okay. Â Like I'm RPing Boulder as just beginning in his quest to learn Red Magic. Â It might be a little bit of a stretch, but now that there is contact beyond the wall, and in the questline itself they want to teach, I dont see why not.
Aye, don't think that's too far fetched from what I've read so far.

It just seems to me a bit far-fetched to find super detailed tomes just casually laying around for the grabbing.

I dunno...

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Virella · **07-12-2017, 06:09 PM**

Okay but, how believable is it going to be your character just happen to stumble onto one there? I'm just not a fan of that type of roleplay. Nor do I like the Grand Theft Glubal Library for player characters.

But I guess that's a difference in taste of RP :L

Flashhelix · **07-12-2017, 06:15 PM**

(07-12-2017, 06:09 PM)Virella Wrote: Okay but, how believable is it going to be your character just happen to stumble onto one there? I'm just not a fan of that type of roleplay. Nor do I like the Grand Theft Glubal Library for player characters.

But I guess that's a difference in taste of RP :L

It's either people find workarounds or everyone exclusively RPs middle-aged Ala Mhigans or the students of middle-aged Ala Mhigans, so I can forgive people glossing over such things in the interest of variety/creativity, especially when it's been established that it's a magical tradition that doesn't require anything beyond a way of finding the knowledge to learn.

Kismet · **07-12-2017, 06:22 PM**

I'd rather someone break into Gubal Library than stage Garlean castrum break-in #938465. I'm only partially joking, but my main point is that there are worse ways to write a character discovering their discipline(s).

That being said, I wouldn't overthink it. In the worst-case scenario, if someone really gets THAT curious IC about where your character learned red magic from... you don't have to oblige them. You can keep it vague or tell them it doesn't matter. If red magic was taboo, this would be a different conversation. But now that we've established it's not, nobody should care overly much either IC or OOC.

Virella · **07-12-2017, 06:32 PM**

(07-12-2017, 06:15 PM)Flashhelix Wrote:
(07-12-2017, 06:09 PM)Virella Wrote: Okay but, how believable is it going to be your character just happen to stumble onto one there? I'm just not a fan of that type of roleplay. Nor do I like the Grand Theft Glubal Library for player characters.

But I guess that's a difference in taste of RP :L

It's either people find workarounds or everyone exclusively RPs middle-aged Ala Mhigans or the students of middle-aged Ala Mhigans, so I can forgive people glossing over such things in the interest of variety/creativity, especially when it's been established that it's a magical tradition that doesn't require anything beyond a way of finding the knowledge to learn.

I can understand that. It's just not my cup of tea to go looking for loopholes while you got the obvious answer right in front of you (as you pointed out in your post above). But I think it comes down, once more, to preferences of roleplay. I wouldn't go claiming one is more creative than the other. I find it very uncreative to go seeking loopholes, while you have lore to work with, while others applaud trying to scrape ideas by to find a way to prevent themselves for having to be an older Ala Mhigan/find an older (NPC) Ala Mhigan teacher.

Literal-Ghost · **07-12-2017, 06:53 PM**

Does the presence of the original founders of Red Magic in Ala Mhigo mean that we could canonically have Ala Mhigan Elezen (or other races) who had survived the War of the Magi and had descendants born there?

Virella · **07-12-2017, 06:56 PM**

(07-12-2017, 06:53 PM)Literal-Ghost Wrote: Does the presence of the original founders of Red Magic in Ala Mhigo mean that we could canonically have Ala Mhigan Elezen (or other races) who had survived the War of the Magi and had descendants born there?

Uh, as far as we know, Gyr Abania was never highlander exclusive, just the majority?

Literal-Ghost · **07-12-2017, 07:05 PM**

As an aside, how is finding loopholes or finding a way that a character could obtain some skill/knowledge less creative than sticking to the black and white (eeeey) of the lore?

A lot of bits of lore are up to speculation, or just not well defined, and there is nothing saying that the red mages and their knowledge stayed holed up exclusively in Ala Mhigo for centuries, especially if other races have been able to go freely to and from Gyr Abania (prior to the most current events). It's not like it's Ishgard, for Highlanders.

It also seems to be the nature of Red Mages to actively want to spread their philosophy and practice of magic to other magic users to have less devastating effects on the environment, so I feel like that leaves a lot of open room as to how a character could get to know of Red Magic or meet a Red Mage.

***Teadrinker*** · **07-12-2017, 07:13 PM**

(07-12-2017, 07:05 PM)Literal-Ghost Wrote: As an aside, how is finding loopholes or finding a way that a character could obtain some skill/knowledge less creative than sticking to the black and white (eeeey) of the lore?

A lot of bits of lore are up to speculation, or just not well defined, and there is nothing saying that the red mages and their knowledge stayed holed up exclusively in Ala Mhigo for centuries, especially if other races have been able to go freely to and from Gyr Abania (prior to the most current events). It's not like it's Ishgard, for Highlanders.

It depends on how it's done. I think some people view it as "taking the easy way out."

There's ways to write a very detailed and airtight story that's enjoyable to be a part of and not 100% grind yourself to obvious canon. It just takes far more effort than most people are willing to put in or they're scared what people will say/think etc.

There's also just not explaining how your character came in touch with anything or using a painfully convenient McGuffin and now they just "are" very good at said skill because...reasons. I think this is what people get groany at.

Luckily with RDM, there is a lot of room to be creative in my opinion. Which I think is tons better than slapping FORBIDDEN or ONLY X'S CAN DO THIS on a job. However, since there is so much space for creativity I think it means people are going to be extra groany if magical long lost tomes keep flying out of the night and smacking random PC's in the head.

Arashin Kujqai · **07-12-2017, 07:53 PM**

I mean.. while conjury and white magic were their own entities, I believe they still have the same approach and purposes to be able to start from the base up from thaumaturgy as well. The way I wrote my character took years of study in all the disciplines and their basics, only to sort've self discover them in his own training using the basics together as well as picking up a refined blade by coincidence that interested him... Probably not the most believable concepts, kinda like when a moment happens in a disney movie that's just a little too perfect to be realistic to happen but it works.

Then upon a couple years beyond this, discovered tomes and studied the discipline known as red magic. Only to further his practices in it using the teachings he'd learned from prior mentioned studies.

Need a soul stone?... I don't think so necessarily, probably handy but I don't believe it's truly "required" except to rush the process more quickly than taken a full 20 something years of study and buildup. Master of red magic? I wouldn't say master but certainly well informed enough to be able to partake in discussions about it, explain it's fundamentals and perhaps take a student to learn upon. Just because someone can train or tutor doesn't always mean they're a "master" of the art, they can always discover new things themselves or improve.

tl;dr: Not that anyone cares about my opinion ofc lol, but I don't think red magic has to be bound to being Ala Mhigan, being about ancient mage training babble, being a crimson duelist, or being some sort of historical mage of long time past. Red magic seems free enough to just require some know how of how to obtain the knowledge, practice it, and do it to be titled a "red mage" ICly. As compared to black magic and white magic tha need certain approvals and a more dedicated background to be lore acceptable and unquestionable.

*continues babbling on*

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