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Meena · **07-20-2017, 05:06 PM**

hey RPC,

I have been thinking about this quite a lot in the last few weeks. What do people dictate themselves as 'public roleplay'?

From my witnessing of public scenes, I personally am of the belief that anything you say and do in public should be held accountable against your character. As, it is publicly witnessable by multiple sources. However this becomes an issue for people who don't want thier 'bubble' pupped. And, creates a further issue where punishment for illegal actions (like, actual illegal actions - stealing, murder, solicitation etc) becomes negligible to the point of comedy.

Is this situation acceptable?

Quote:Player A: -emotes they are actively listening to Conversation of Characters B, C and D.-
Player B, C, D continue to have discussion about XYZ illegal deed in public that they did.
Player A: -Remembers said conversation, approaches to extort Gil for 'keeping quiet' money.-

Why, should all roleplay held in public forums, accessible to the majority of the public still be considered as 'private' roleplay? Does the integrity and validity of another roleplayer matter less than your own personal character or.. what? It's quite a shame, because some better examples of amazing roleplay happen when punishment and crime collide.

I'm just, a bit.. confused to why it is the norm to treat the Public air/places as still private despite it being public.

maybe people just say they want an immersive world.. but not actually want one.

Lydia Lightfoot · **07-20-2017, 05:32 PM**

(07-20-2017, 05:06 PM)Meena Wrote: maybe people just say they want an immersive world.. but not actually want one.

^ This. This for days. They want the social and immersive world, but only when they want it to be, or, when it serves to enhance their own experience and advance their own goals.

That said, it's important to remember that roleplayers come in all experience levels as players, and someone like you or me might look at the game world and think... "If I'm IC and you can make your character exist in the same zone/area my character is in, then feel free to interact with mine and react/respond to my RP. You don't need an invitation any more than you would need to be invited to say hi to someone you see at the grocery store IRL"Â ...but for someone with less experience, they may not be able to handle reacting/improvising so swiftly to an unexpected variable in their intended situation. So if someone presents an objection to a rando coming into their scene, it may very well just be that the player is new and not quite ready to have to shake things up on-the-fly.

However, on the other hand (bouncing back and forth here), the game world does have a ton of locations which are "off the beaten path" where players who are new and feeling a bit timid could go take their pals to do some RP which would be "in a public space" yet rather unlikely to be noticed by anyone or attract wandering participation. In that sense, it falls upon the player who wishes to bubble their scene to ensure they're doing said scene in a way which doesn't invite curiosity. Another option they could do is to keep the posting for the RP inside of a party chat, so that even though the characters are right on the street in Ul'dah it becomes impossible for anyone to overhear and intervene in their affairs (though, bouncing again, ideally if they go that route they should have some sort of explanation afoot in their scene as to why there's weirdly nobody around on the open street in a major city...).

***Maril*** · **07-20-2017, 05:40 PM**

I would take a situation like that as a completely fair one. To me, if you roleplay in a public location such as a town or a bar, or even alongside a road, then if someone else hears it - especially if they emote for active eavesdropping, then it's all fair game. I'd find it more sketchy if someone ran up ooc, realized IC stuff was going on, and then changed to RP gear and went IC - because it's kind of imposing and feels a bit meta.Â
However you can never count on people feeling the same way, or even taking proper precautions to ensure that their "unhearable" conversation is in fact unhearable (Tell, Party, excessively emoting that it's nothing but a mutter to others..) and at the end of the day, if other players don't want to play on it, then you can't really twist their arm around.

Nebbs · **07-20-2017, 05:42 PM**

Good question.

For me if I am in public then it is happening. Though I would add some thoughts to that to help the witnesses..

Not everyone accepts the same frame of reference

a public place may be being used as being in a completely different place.
the characters in question may be playing an NPC role.
the scene itself may be not IC real, such as a dream or time travel or alternative reality.
etc..

Your viewing window is your character

You should only use what your character witnessed, when your character was IC
Try to interpret it through the characters "eyes" not the players
Try to add some vagueness or doubt into what was witnessed
Don't add in OOC information you have

Be OOC constructive with it

Try to use it to advance things, not tear them down
Accept that other RP differently, and we only get to RP through what we find in common

I generally find people say many things about their style of RP but the reality falls short of the aspiration (myself included). So best to be tolerant if you want a wider circle of RP interactions.

QalliFlower · **07-20-2017, 06:14 PM**

It never hurts to ask before joining a scene.

***Teadrinker*** · **07-20-2017, 06:17 PM**

Personally, I've had too many experiences where I'm RPing something in public and folk try to join in, which is all fine and good, and then do something stupid like emote eating elephant peanuts or playing a game boy (not making this up) and do nothing but detract from the quality of the RP.

Other times, especially if there is any detectable villainous presence at all in the RP, you get 85 white knights gathering and emoting at you and unless that's what you're going for it quickly becomes a headache to deal with. I eventually just decided that certain scenes and things were best kept in /p with desired people involved.

Other times, at crowded events, it's just easier on the chat scroll to keep it in party.

If two people are around my character and obviously RPing but I don't see it I just leave them alone or send a tell first if my character would somehow get involved with what they're doing. If something can be in /em I do that. But generally, depending on the context or if someone involved just doesn't want an audience that day I have no issues with /p.

ExAtomos · **07-20-2017, 06:25 PM**

Way I see it... if you are using /s, your RP is fair game for anyone within earshot. If you don't want your RP interfered with, that's what /p is for. (I follow this rule myself.) If someone is blatantly (and egregiously) breaking lore in public chat, I'll just quietly put them on blacklist.

Meena · **07-20-2017, 06:37 PM**

But should you have to ask to join something. You aren't, by joining in forcing their character to do anything. You are simply approaching something else in the living world as another organism in said living world.Â

Obviously asking can help but it really shouldn't be applicable if your search info reads "walk ups welcome"

Caspar · **07-20-2017, 06:39 PM**

(07-20-2017, 06:25 PM)ExAtomos Wrote: Way I see it... if you are using /s, your RP is fair game for anyone within earshot. If you don't want your RP interfered with, that's what /p is for. (I follow this rule myself.) If someone is blatantly (and egregiously) breaking lore in public chat, I'll just quietly put them on blacklist.

This is what I do-but not what I think. More specifically I get why people doing private or "semipublic" RP might prefer not to use /p. There may be ooc reasons for them not wanting interruption, like not wanting to give up limited RP time. I do think /p is the best solution but it's not necessarily mandatory or anything.
It's no skin off my back to ask if my involvement is deeper than just entering conversation. /tell isn't any harder for me to use then for them to use /p. Some people I expect don't really want to give up emote functionality to go private, rather than being necessarily consequence adverse.

Zhavi · **07-20-2017, 06:41 PM**

RP is an imperfect representation of interactions happening in a virtual world, being created by imperfect writers.

MMO rp is happening in a restricted visual representation of a fully imagined virtual world.

People who write have different ideas about how character actions should be written (ie, if you're whispering, you might write it once and then assume people know).

Those three things make walking into public rp something that, in my opinion, should always be done with a respect to the idea that someone's idea of things may not be your own.

MMO rp is not regulated by any central governing body. That means that the most any of us can do is try to be as polite to each other as we can, and try to be understanding that sometimes different views are just gonna clash so badly that y'all might not be able to intersect.

Let's take that example you gave of the conversation about illegal deeds.

I'll use my character Zhavi for a few examples.

Example One
Now, let's say I'm in character, RP tag on, but I don't actually emote her listening in on the conversation. I stand her nearby, and read all of the details of what these people are talking about.

Later, because Zhi is this type of person, she approaches them for keeping quiet money, and they oocly object.

To them, unless you emote your character listening in, your character is not icly present no matter what other indications said otherwise.

Because you came in on their rp, in the end you can't force them to change what they believe to be rp etiquette.

Example Two

Zhi's listening in on this conversation, and I do some emotes along the lines of Zhavi Streetrunner is hanging out all skulky-like with booze in hand.. I've emoted that she's there, so to me it's a given she's aware of everything happening in the area.

Later, she goes to get that sweet, sweet hush money.

But to them, unless I specifically emote at them, my character is not interacting with their characters and thus isn't necessarily close enough or aware enough to listen in. They object because they would have changed their character's behavior if I had emoted at them, but since I didn't they took it as an ooc sign that there was no ic interaction between.

Example Three

This time, I rp that Zhavi keeps glancing at their table, and giving body language signals that she's aware of them and paying attention.

But when Zhi goes to extort the shit out of them, they claim to have no notion oocly of my posts!

Turns out they were so focused on their own posts that they flat out didn't see mine. They then tell me that they wished I'd sent them a pm, since they would have changed their rp if they'd oocly been aware of my ic posts.

It's their rp, so I can't force them to change what happened.

Example Four

I see people rping, and I emote Zhi showing up and listening, and the whole shebang goes down.

Zhi approaches them later to shake them down, but they tell me it ain't gonna happen.

Turns out that prior to my arrival they had described a whole scene that was different to what was physically represented in game. For one, it was in the dead of night, in an abandoned alley they had thoroughly checked out and posted lookouts for, including a bunch of npcs they didn't have characters to physically represent. For two, they were chattering nonstop oocly about what was happening, and were so limited on time that they just couldn't immediately clue me in on what was happening. Meanwhile, my posts were so glaringly contradictory to what was happening (since I'd rped Zhi strolling up sweating in the blinding sun, in an otherwise empty alley), that they decided to just be a little rude and ignore me.

Since I never sent them an ooc message, they didn't think it necessary to send me one.

Rude? Maybe, but it's their rp and I was unaware. In any case, I can't force them to change.

What's my point?

Everyone is different. What is blindingly obvious to you is not blindingly obvious to someone else. Your definition of something non concrete like 'public rp' is based on your perceptions and beliefs -- and other people are likely to have other perceptions and beliefs.

People who RP often have histories where they started out in specific rp communities off in their own bubble, and that's where they learned social rp etiquette. John's experience learning how to rp in some Naruto Yahoo group way back when might have shaped him to believe that you need to post when your character is present, while Mary's experience learning how to rp in WoW might have shaped her to believe that if your character is standing somewhere, that means they are present.

You won't automatically know. And because there is no centralized governing body dictating rules and regulations of FFXIV rp, one way is not necessarily more correct than another -- even if it seems to you that one is better.

We all have opinions. Figuring out why one opinion should be followed over another has lead to conflict throughout human history. You aren't going to get everyone to agree in this corner of the internet. The best you can do is try to compromise, or just live and let live -- even if you think someone else is silly or being stupid.

edit because I forgot to finish a sentence.

Further edit, another thing - even if their rp in say might not be something they want you to join in on right then, maybe they want you to read it. Maybe it's their hope that you'll be interested, and ask what's happening. Maybe they want to advertise that they exist, but want to rp people in rather than have blind walkups.

You really gonna tell them they shouldn't do that?

You really gonna discourage them for trying?

Virella · **07-20-2017, 06:56 PM**

Iffff people got their RP tags on, and aren't RPing in party, it's all fair game to me. Else roleplay in party, keep RP tag off, or even better, shoo off to a place no one can run into you.

Like man, I don't get this dumb roleplay 'culture' on Balmung that you cannot interact with people, because else it would be impolite. If there's one thing I miss, it is that I could just walk up to whatever damn group I found, and people would RP back at me.
At least they would shoo my character off IC if they couldn't be arsed with them at that point at time. But here on Balmung you get OOC snark for being 'rude' in whispers. Because you dared to interrupt the flow of their apparent private chatbox in /s and /em.

HOWEVER. I hate people going IC when it is convenient for them. I legit had someone just fly up next to me and a group of people. Started fishing. Didn't say a thing IC, until we we're about to leave. THEY SUDDENLY STOPPED FISHING, and got IC. Like dude, woman, whatever, don't do that???? You even clearly saw we were wrapping up, and now you decide, after an hour or lurking, to just chip in. THAT isn't cool to me.

But at the end of the day. Do what floats your boat. I'm just not going to be the biggest fan of people who treat /s and /em as their personal chat for roleplay. Just use party or something instead. And keep your roleplay tag off. Tadaa, issue solved. :L Just use the RP tag if you want to be approached, done.

Zhavi · **07-20-2017, 07:02 PM**

(07-20-2017, 06:56 PM)Virella Wrote: Iffff people got their RP tags on, and aren't RPing in party, it's all fair game to me. Else roleplay in party, keep RP tag off, or even better, shoo off to a place no one can run into you.

Like man, I don't get this dumb roleplay 'culture' on Balmung that you cannot interact with people, because else it would be impolite. If there's one thing I miss, it is that I could just walk up to whatever damn group I found, and people would RP back at me.
At least they would shoo my character off IC if they couldn't be arsed with them at that point at time. But here on Balmung you get OOC snark for being 'rude' in whispers. Because you dared to interrupt the flow of their apparent private chatbox in /s and /em.

HOWEVER. I hate people going IC when it is convenient for them. I legit had someone just fly up next to me and a group of people. Started fishing. Didn't say a thing IC, until we we're about to leave. THEY SUDDENLY STOPPED FISHING, and got IC. Like dude, woman, whatever, don't do that???? You even clearly saw we were wrapping up, and now you decide, after an hour or lurking, to just chip in. THAT isn't cool to me.

But at the end of the day. Do what floats your boat. I'm just not going to be the biggest fan of people who treat /s and /em as their personal chat for roleplay.

and to that guy since he was there fishing he was ic and just assumed that your characters were ignoring him.

You just never know. Thank the numerous rp communities on the internet for having different interpretations of what makes good rp, and people bringing those interpretations with them a full decade later.

then we all argue.

Virella · **07-20-2017, 07:05 PM**

Nah bruh, he literally flew up. We were there for hours already. Sat himself next to us. Gone fishing in his slutmog. Then decided to go IC after an hour by suddenly stopping, changing his gear, and starting to talk IC.

That's not wallflowering. That's being an asshole. Like dude. Go fish IC next to us. But at least do it goddamn IC, or give some hint you're roleplaying. Because if you're sitting there in your slutmog, without any emotes, I'm just going to assume you're eavesdropping while doing your fishing for precious gil.

So we go back to, wallflowers must be tended to, and people must be roleplayed at constantly. Fuck no, this server has tons of PvE folk who have no desire to RP. That's why that bloody RP tag should be used a lot better. And no, before you ask, he only had some zany lolsly pve thing in his search info with his ilevel. Nothing said he was a roleplayer, at all.

Those are the people who shit on roleplayers immersions. Not the random people who walk up to other roleplayers IC.

Zhavi · **07-20-2017, 07:10 PM**

(07-20-2017, 07:05 PM)Virella Wrote: Nah bruh, he literally flew up. Sat himself next to us. Gone fishing in his slutmog. Then decided to go IC after an hour by suddenly stopping, changing his gear, and starting to talk IC.

That's not wallflowering. That's being an asshole.

I've seen people rp those outfit changes as being ic.

Orrrr maybe in his head he was waiting until y'all were wrapping up because he thought it was the better option.

Maybe he is an entrenched asshole who does whatever he feels like because other people exist to enhance his fun.

People are weird, and can justify things in ways that are utterly mysterious to me, but to them make perfect sense. That's what I'm trying to get across -- sometimes it's just quicker and less frustrating to ask oocly, or communicate why you're doing this or that. Not everyone is gonna agree with me, which is cool, but besides trying to get along, what other options do we have? Being frustrated or not caring? I don't wanna be frustrated, and I like trying to include a variety of people in my rp circles. So I try to compromise where I can.

Lydia Lightfoot · **07-20-2017, 07:48 PM**

(07-20-2017, 06:37 PM)Meena Wrote: But should you have to ask to join something. You aren't, by joining in forcing their character to do anything. You are simply approaching something else in the living world as another organism in said living world.Â

Obviously asking can help but it really shouldn't be applicable if your search info reads "walk ups welcome"

A lot of people don't use the search info or RP tag very effectively. Case in point: me. I never use the RP tag because I dislike that the kerning of the icon butts it up right against the start of my character's name, instead of giving a few pixels' space. It's totally idiotic of me that it bothers me, but yet it does, and so I don't use it out of some futile silent protest.

Anyway. Smile

As some of the other said, if it's in /say and /em then that's basically the same as advertising public acceptance, because nothing is stopping them from using /p if they prefer privacy. So jump right on in, and don't ask permission in advance, because again, nothing is stopping them from using /p.Â

You'll get one of, probably... four? Four outcomes.

1. They're cool with it and you get some RP. Score!

2. They aren't actually interested in you joining in, but they'll humor you with a post or two before making it fairly clear via their RP that their characters have no intention of actually engaging in a meaningful way. It's a bit of a passive aggressive approach on their part (versus them just OOCly saying they'd prefer to not have someone join in), but you'll "get the hint" and move on, eventually (or they'll leave, or, escalate to #3 or #4)

3. They'll politely mention OOCly that their scene is intended to be a closed scene. Maybe they have a good reason (e.g. they're using the location as a proxy for somewhere else, such as people often do on the ship at Costa Del Sol), or maybe they have no reason at all, but it doesn't really matter. If they're not cool with it they're not cool with it. Onward with your day.

4. They'll be total shits about it OOCly and make a big dramatic outburst about how you're rude for walking up, for presuming they want to RP with you, blah blah blah. You know what, don't even get mad if this happens. They just did you a huge favor by revealing the kind of angry, negative people that they are, and now you're free to carry on finding RP with other roleplayers who can play nice.

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Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes