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Raccoon · **09-01-2013, 03:15 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:09 PM)Uther Wrote:
(09-01-2013, 02:51 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote:
(09-01-2013, 01:36 PM)Uther Wrote:
(09-01-2013, 01:18 PM)Velkyron Wrote: While some of the conjecture is interesting, I really don't see the point of it.
First of all, +1'ing this.

Roughly fifteen reputation boosts for the original post, a handful of very appreciative PMs, three friends requests, and eight pages of generally constructive discussion indicate that this thread was useful and informative to quite a few people.

Are you really attacking me for giving a rep point to someone who disagrees with you?

I'll ignore that blatant hostility toward a differing opinion for a second...

It may just be me but I don't see how that was hostile in any way, merely stating that only a rare few actually feel the way that you do, while many found it to actually be a rather interesting take on things.

If you're this easily offended, I kinda wish I'd gone ahead with my Lalafell Scholar that travels Eorzea collecting interracial "fiction". Not for anything pervy so much as that I like pushing peoples' buttons at times. Yours seem particularly easy to push.

Rinh Hallani · **09-01-2013, 03:21 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:05 PM)K Wrote: Personally, I will not be RP'ing such a scenario but were it to come up in conversation then she would intend to mate with a nuhn one day, no different from anyone else... but she will have romantic inclinations like we(humans) tend to which may deter from her culture and tribal society.

I think that's a great way to play it. I know there's also talk of Keepers being promiscuous in this thread and, whilst I have no problem with other players RPing that way, my Keeper will be romantic and monogamous. It's fairly inevitable that some people won't conform to every single cultural tradition and I don't think we need to box ourselves in as RPers in that respect.

Orlog · **09-01-2013, 03:22 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:15 PM)Raccoon Wrote: It may just be me but I don't see how that was hostile in any way, merely stating that only a rare few actually feel the way that you do, while many found it to actually be a rather interesting take on things.

If you're this easily offended, I kinda wish I'd gone ahead with my Lalafell Scholar that travels Eorzea collecting interracial "fiction". Not for anything pervy so much as that I like pushing peoples' buttons at times. Yours seem particularly easy to push.

Don't do this. It's not adding anything to the conversation and just asking to start drama. They're disagreeing and it's fine. Uther isn't upset, either, that's your jumping to conclusions.

*sigh* Bomb

Vinter · **09-01-2013, 03:24 PM**

(07-20-2013, 11:47 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: I would argue that the ancient Vikings, feudal Japanese, and colonial Europeans/Americans were "sentiant, cultured, abstract-thought-and-morality-capable" people. Â Their morality simply differed from our own.

My point here is that if someone wanted to play their Seeker tribe as resembling ancient Viking or bushido morality, that would be pretty cool.

First of all, great opening post. Really informative. Even if it's not meant to be taken as lore or absolute truth, it's a really good starting point for establishing more baser emotions for your character. Culture and civilization influence who we are, but these things are not formed in spite of, but around our baser nature. There's a reason why food and shelter are considered basic human rights under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It's because these are basic biological needs.
Our societies are built around our instincts and our nature as animals. That's why we have parental leave. Because if we were emperor penguins, we could just leave our children standing on the icy shores of Antarctica for 3 months, losing up to 50% of their total body weight, while we go off fishing. We wouldn't need parental leave.

But we're primates, and our young are born early and undeveloped in comparison to most other animals. They need constant attention, and so we organize our societies around that fact.

Culture doesn't develop in a vaccuum. The social structures of any species is based around breeding. And even when you don't know the specifics of a culture, it's still important to have some sort of foundation to build it on.

Secondly, thank you for trying to be objective. Especially when it comes to matters of morality, that's a difficult thing for a lot of people to handle.
As a Swede, I do see my ancestors get a bad rap as being bloodthirsty monsters far too frequently. In reality, they just had a different culture than the Christian French and Englishmen who hated them so much. In particular, a different view of death. Not as something to be feared and avoided at all costs, but as an integral part of life, and something to embrace. If you lived honourably and died well you went to Valhalla, that was a gift. Death on the battlefield was not something to fear, it was something to look forward to. To a judeo-christian person that might be morally objectionable, but there's nothing say the judeo-christian viewpoint is correct.

And the same applies here. Just because we as humans view something as wrong, or desirable, that doesn't mean we should apply our own values and morals to the miqo'te. If all you're going to do is RP a 21st century human with cat ears, what's the point? That's not interesting.

And last but not least, I'm actually currently trying to write up some backstory and tribal structure for a northern Lynx tribe, and a lot of it is based on norse culture, because it's something I'm familiar with. I've even integrated a sort of Thing as the main governmental structure.

The harem structure could also function within a norse inspired setting, since for the norsemen, it was perfectly acceptable for a married man to sleep with other women, as long as they were of lower status than his wife, and not someone else's wife. Having bedslaves was common practice.
Now, miqo'te would naturally not be slaves, but it could open up the possibility within the tribe for allowing romantic love, while at the same time leaving room for the males to still adhere to the lore and perform their duties of breeding with multiple partners.

Another thing I've done is assign the male to a more intimate role in parenting when it comes to male children. My reasoning being that the Nunh would want his male offspring to grow up strong, so that they can have the best chance at becoming Nunh themselves. This way I can integrate males a bit more into the parenting process, which gives me more room to flesh them out as characters. They're not just that strong dude who bones everyone. They're fathers who care about their children.

Shuck · **09-01-2013, 03:27 PM**

(09-01-2013, 02:51 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: Wow, I didn't expect this discussion to be resurrected after a month of obscurity. For those of you who read the title and not the full discussion, this is not about ERP or perversion. I would suggest reading through the full discussion before jumping to conclusions about the scope of this thread, as that horse has already been beaten around page five and six.

Yeah, a thin veneer of inherently flawed conjecture doesn't really save the discussion built around it. I mean, I've said this before in this thread, but your conclusion outright ignores a ton of variables that are kind of inconvenient to professing just how swell inbreeding is (nevermind that species that exclusively inbreed don't make it past that 20-generation gateway on their own, let's just assume they do), like...I don't know, the myriad of health problems in pedigree dogs.
They even have us looking out for the health of their genetic stock, and pugs still can't breathe too well.

Anyway, the point of this particular post is definitely to say "Odd", but sincerely, it's nothing that doesn't happen any time a roleplaying community mentions sex. Frankly, your average internet-person's reaction to sex is worth it's own study. Sex gets spoken of in the same reverent, mystical, obsessive terms as it did when we were all 14, had no idea what it was, and were still convinced that it was the absolute, end-all, be-all to everything ever.

I mean, at least back then, we had the excuse of being underdeveloped (physically, psychologically, emotionally), and generally pretty fucking stupid. Now, I don't know. I don't know how we justify this.

(09-01-2013, 02:51 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: Roughly fifteen reputation boosts for the original post, a handful of very appreciative PMs, three friends requests, and eight pages of generally constructive discussion indicate that this thread was useful and informative to quite a few people.

Ok, you like to wear the science-hat, so I'm gonna speak to you like a scientist.

There's overlap in that data, so these aren't all unique occurrences, and that's a really, really small sampling of the group you're addressing. This doesn't allow you to reach any kind of conclusion, and is pretty much entirely irrelevant.

(09-01-2013, 02:51 PM)Myxie Tryxle Wrote: All I can say for this is creeps will be creeps. Part of my goal in writing this thread was to encourage intellectual discussion to make the discussion deeper than just "oh he's a nunh, so he must be a creep." The creeps who are playing nunh to creep on girls would find another means to creep on girls even if the nunh category didn't exist, because that's part of their personality. I would be one of the first people to rebuff them for this behavior and blacklist if necessary, as I find it disturbing, disrespectful, and unwarranted. This thread was partly to encourage people who wanted to play nunh but in a respectful and informed manner.

Yeah, but you give them a super easy route to take, and they're gonna take it. The "Nunh" position is the easiest fucking route. You type a title in the last name field, and bam. Now you're roleplaying! IT'S NOT CREEPY YOU GUYS, IT'S JUST MY CHARACTER!

And then you fed them an entire thread worth of (again, heavily flawed) conjecture that tells them that inbreeding is super great. It isn't, not in the long term, not in the short term, it's just not as catastrophic as five-eyed babies coming from your second cousin.

(09-01-2013, 03:15 PM)Raccoon Wrote: It may just be me but I don't see how that was hostile in any way, merely stating that only a rare few actually feel the way that you do, while many found it to actually be a rather interesting take on things.

If you're this easily offended, I kinda wish I'd gone ahead with my Lalafell Scholar that travels Eorzea collecting interracial "fiction". Not for anything pervy so much as that I like pushing peoples' buttons at times. Yours seem particularly easy to push.

It's not a "rare" few. Her sample size is absolutely fucking tiny, and doesn't account for overlap. We have no concrete data on just how many people find this particular notion favorable or unfavorable. We don't even have a reliable way to gauge it.

Don't start talking about numbers if you don't have the numbers.

K'nahli · **09-01-2013, 03:28 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:21 PM)katattax Wrote:
(09-01-2013, 03:05 PM)K Wrote: Personally, I will not be RP'ing such a scenario but were it to come up in conversation then she would intend to mate with a nuhn one day, no different from anyone else... but she will have romantic inclinations like we(humans) tend to which may deter from her culture and tribal society.

I think that's a great way to play it. I know there's also talk of Keepers being promiscuous in this thread and, whilst I have no problem with other players RPing that way, my Keeper will be romantic and monogamous. It's fairly inevitable that some people won't conform to every single cultural tradition and I don't think we need to box ourselves in as RPers in that respect.

Welll, even if they have a different way of doing things I think many of us can't help but bring some aspects closer to home to make our characters feel more human and less animal >w< I don't imagine my character will engage in any relationship but I don't want to absolutely cut off any possibility for her either ;w;

Besides that, Clover would renounce all affiliation her miqo'te has with K'nahli if I did such a thing, haha. She wants her to find a tia for herself for some reason TwT

Quote: Laellia
I DO think the title could easily be changed to "Miqo'te Cultural & Biological Influences Explored" and get the same great discussion that it's turned into, since it seems the primary problem certain people are having is the title seeming to place total emphasis on mating... which the thread has clearly made into only one deeper aspect of Miqo'te culture.

Thiiiiss. The title is unfortunately attracting the wrong kinds of attention.

Shuck · **09-01-2013, 03:31 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:28 PM)Knahli Wrote: Welll, even if they have a different way of doing things I think many of us can't help but bring some aspects closer to home to make our characters feel more human and less animal >w< I don't imagine my character will engage in any relationship but I don't want to absolutely cut off any possibility for her either ;w;

Besides that, K'mih would renounce all affiliation with K'nahli if I did such a thing, haha. She wants her to find a tia for herself for some reason TwT

Interesting bit about this: Miqo'te are observably more human than they are animalistic. Chop the ears and tail off, and you just have a shorter race of people who have a fringe-sect (and it would have to be a fringe, with the way Eorzean society is set up) that insists on keeping to some tribal customs to varying degrees.

Why there is any insistence to the contrary is beyond me.

Raccoon · **09-01-2013, 03:35 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:27 PM)Shuck Wrote:
(09-01-2013, 03:15 PM)Raccoon Wrote: It may just be me but I don't see how that was hostile in any way, merely stating that only a rare few actually feel the way that you do, while many found it to actually be a rather interesting take on things.

If you're this easily offended, I kinda wish I'd gone ahead with my Lalafell Scholar that travels Eorzea collecting interracial "fiction". Not for anything pervy so much as that I like pushing peoples' buttons at times. Yours seem particularly easy to push.

It's not a "rare" few. Her sample size is absolutely fucking tiny, and doesn't account for overlap. We have no concrete data on just how many people find this particular notion favorable or unfavorable. We don't even have a reliable way to gauge it.

Don't start talking about numbers if you don't have the numbers.

I'm impressed I had that much of an impact on you that you felt the need to curse at me. I'm also amazed that you found that I was suggesting anything to do with numbers when I was merely clarifying what someone else seemed to be suggesting.

Uther · **09-01-2013, 03:35 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:15 PM)Raccoon Wrote: It may just be me but I don't see how that was hostile in any way, merely stating that only a rare few actually feel the way that you do, while many found it to actually be a rather interesting take on things.

If you're this easily offended, I kinda wish I'd gone ahead with my Lalafell Scholar that travels Eorzea collecting interracial "fiction". Not for anything pervy so much as that I like pushing peoples' buttons at times. Yours seem particularly easy to push.

It is just you. Also, the idea that "only a rare few actually feel the way that (I)Â do" because Velkyron got one rep point and Myxie got 15 is a ridiculous statement. There are plenty of people who have expressed similar sentiments that have gotten rep points, I'm sure. Also, not everyone likes the rep system. Furthermore,Â her post has been around for a lot longer than Velkyron's, which has been around for about an hour. So using that comparison as an accurate representation of opinion is foolish to say the least.

I won't get into your assumption that I'm easily offended, because frankly, it's just you who thinks that again. I will say your lalafell will notÂ push my buttons because I don't really get how that character is offensive. To anyone. I don't even know why you thought was interesting enough to bring up.

(09-01-2013, 03:35 PM)Raccoon Wrote: I'm impressed I had that much of an impact on you that you felt the need to curse at me.

So, what we've learned here is that your entire debate structure is based on "U mad bro?" and has no real relevance to anything.

K'nahli · **09-01-2013, 03:40 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:31 PM)Shuck Wrote:
(09-01-2013, 03:28 PM)K Wrote: Welll, even if they have a different way of doing things I think many of us can't help but bring some aspects closer to home to make our characters feel more human and less animal >w< I don't imagine my character will engage in any relationship but I don't want to absolutely cut off any possibility for her either ;w;

Besides that, K'mih would renounce all affiliation with K'nahli if I did such a thing, haha. She wants her to find a tia for herself for some reason TwT

Interesting bit about this: Miqo'te are observably more human than they are animalistic. Chop the ears and tail off, and you just have a shorter race of people who have a fringe-sect (and it would have to be a fringe, with the way Eorzean society is set up) that insists on keeping to some tribal customs to varying degrees.

Why there is any insistence to the contrary is beyond me.

You took that quite literally. I wasn't referring to their physical attributes but rather the fact that attraction and desire to mate with the strongest male is more of a primitive and animal-like instinct rather than the emotional attachment humans create.

Sini'to Shadar · **09-01-2013, 03:42 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:21 PM)katattax Wrote: I think that's a great way to play it. I know there's also talk of Keepers being promiscuous in this thread and, whilst I have no problem with other players RPing that way, my Keeper will be romantic and monogamous. It's fairly inevitable that some people won't conform to every single cultural tradition and I don't think we need to box ourselves in as RPers in that respect.

Pretty much this. As much as informative some people might find this thread, we should remember that it's only a possible point of view. Keep that in mind before you flame please.

Raccoon · **09-01-2013, 03:45 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:35 PM)Uther Wrote:
(09-01-2013, 03:15 PM)Raccoon Wrote: It may just be me but I don't see how that was hostile in any way, merely stating that only a rare few actually feel the way that you do, while many found it to actually be a rather interesting take on things.

If you're this easily offended, I kinda wish I'd gone ahead with my Lalafell Scholar that travels Eorzea collecting interracial "fiction". Not for anything pervy so much as that I like pushing peoples' buttons at times. Yours seem particularly easy to push.

It is just you. Also, the idea that "only a rare few actually feel the way that (I)Â do" because Velkyron got one rep point and Myxie got 15 is a ridiculous statement. There are plenty of people who have expressed similar sentiments that have gotten rep points, I'm sure. Also, not everyone likes the rep system. Furthermore,Â her post has been around for a lot longer than Velkyron's, which has been around for about an hour. So using that comparison as an accurate representation of opinion is foolish to say the least.

I won't get into your assumption that I'm easily offended, because frankly, it's just you who thinks that again. I will say your lalafell will notÂ push my buttons because I don't really get how that character is offensive. To anyone. I don't even know why you thought was interesting enough to bring up.

(09-01-2013, 03:35 PM)Raccoon Wrote: I'm impressed I had that much of an impact on you that you felt the need to curse at me.

So, what we've learned here is that your entire debate structure is based on "U mad bro?" and has no real relevance to anything.

Is that what I'm doing? Hm, news to me. I just tried to clarify what I believed to be the point someone else was making, while tamely chastising someone for assuming that they are being hostile. But if you say so, I suppose I'll believe you.

I wasn't even aware I had joined in on the debate but merely tried to moderate a bit where I wasn't wanted. A bad tendency of mine, I suppose.

Rinh Hallani · **09-01-2013, 03:47 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:28 PM)K Wrote: Welll, even if they have a different way of doing things I think many of us can't help but bring some aspects closer to home to make our characters feel more human and less animal >w< I don't imagine my character will engage in any relationship but I don't want to absolutely cut off any possibility for her either ;w;

I always saw them as more human than animal, aside from flicking ears, bristling tails and perhaps growling in frustration and such. Maybe I'm in the minority there, I don't know.Â Edit: Nevermind, saw your clarification above!

But the relationship and sexuality aspects discussed here - if I were to accept it as established lore - don't need to have much influence on your RP overall. If mine gets into a relationship then perhaps a discussion of "oh, you've settled with just one mate? how odd" might come up but I don't think it's enough to dwell on when there are so many other aspects of miqo'te culture you can bring into your RP.

Orlog · **09-01-2013, 03:51 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:35 PM)Raccoon Wrote: I'm impressed I had that much of an impact on you that you felt the need to curse at me.

'Cause cursing equals mad now, right? It couldn't possibly just be that it's a regular part of his vocabulary and comes up in just about every one of his posts. By that logic, he only ever posts angry. AND when we have conversations about anything, he's only doing it in a very angry and upset fashion because the amount of "fucks" he uses. ...Seriously, that doesn't mean anything and once again you're not adding anything to the conversation in an attempt to "troll" the people who disagree with the topic of this thread. It's not working and everyone can see what you're doing.

And I'm going to continue to call you out on it every fucking time. Because just as much as people have a right to agree with this shit, people have a right to disagree.

(09-01-2013, 03:35 PM)Uther Wrote: So, what we've learned here is that your entire debate structure is based on "U mad bro?" and has no real relevance to anything.

Uther · **09-01-2013, 03:52 PM**

(09-01-2013, 03:45 PM)Raccoon Wrote: I wasn't even aware I had joined in on the debate but merely tried to moderate a bit where I wasn't wanted. A bad tendency of mine, I suppose.

If you wanted to moderate, you would have stopped at "It may just be me but I don't see how that was hostile in any way, merely stating that only a rare few actually feel the way that you do, while many found it to actually be a rather interesting take on things.Â "Â

You could have stopped there. But you didn't.

You started bragging about how much you love to push buttons, and that's when you lost all rights to use "I merely tried to moderate" as an excuse. Welcome to the debate.

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Miqoâ€™te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologistâ€™s point of view

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