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Magellan · **10-08-2013, 11:51 AM**

I've asked this question before (not here) but due to recent events with one of my characters, thought I would bring it up again. First, some context:

'Good Guys' in this case is a generic term for those who fight for good. Heroes. They vanquish evil, while still being merciful, and have a strong moral compass. Think Jedi's. Or if your a Trekkie, think of an Enterprise crew. They always seem to find a way to try and do the right thing. Even if it fails, they know the effort was made.

Now, I love to play these types of characters. Neutral good 'knightly' types that fight for justice, and have an inherent sense of what is right. Problem is, I can never find groups for them. I've joined several guilds across a couple of games (I've not been rping super long - only 6 months) in which inevitably the same thing seems to play out: the guild is advertised as heroes, yet the majority of people who join are mercs, or anti-heroes at best. So the story becomes less about 'saving the world' and more about exploring the darkness within people, and their need to kill/pillage/fall from grace. While those are interesting and fun concepts to explore for sure! It is not why I join those groups on those characters.

Whenever I raise this question and/or concern, the response I most frequently get is 'Well, playing characters who always do the right thing is too hard'. Except for me its not. o.o It's why I love characters like Captain Picard, Sheriff Jack Carter (Eureka) <insert Jedi name here>, <insert LotR character here>

But at times it literally feels like I am the only one, and that these sorts of characters are unwelcome. That somehow playing good guys isn't interesting enough, or realistic enough.

So I turn to you, the community to ask: are heroes boring to play? Anyone else here enjoy playing these characters?

Gideon Aryeh · **10-08-2013, 11:57 AM**

I totally totally agree with you on this. I sometimes find that good characters are also many times unwelcomed. Unfortunately I've also seen too many instances where good characters are played by not so good roleplayers who end up making it bad for everyone.

Honestly though I think that more people need to give good characters a chance and not see them as a way to just "ruin" their rp. I think the actual great heroic players take a bad rap or end up having to follow the crowd to become a character that is rped with more often, which is also a shame. Though I think that good guilds are definitely needed to offset this and they need to be well thought out and well planned. I also think that unfortunately due to the fact that many roleplayers nowadays do not have pen and paper rpg experience they are not aware of or do not like consequences to their actions. So being a "good" character or leading a "good" guild means that you should set up ooc connections with enemy groups who are willing to sometimes lose, sometimes get caught and sometimes suffer consequences. On the flipside the good guys also need to lose sometimes as well.

I do also think that the good guys need to band together more often both icly and oocly. Sorry but "evil' is not the natural order of things despite what many think. I find that good groups too often fall due to mismanagement and poor organization. Which is a shame honestly. They also are not as active or as "loud" as they need to be again trying to be "everyone's friend" which ends up hampering their own rp. Hence the reason for established enemies who you've struck up an ooc agreement with.

You also have to let any of your members know that godmodding will not be tolerated under any circumstances. Once one of your own godmods your reputation is destroyed therefore making you not respected. Unfortunately more leeway is given to the greyer/darker more evil groups in this regard. Again sad in itself.

Bottom line is that if you have an issue with a non godmodding (and we've known our fair share of these im sure) good character "doing his job" then sorry you are crossing the ic and ooc line and that is bad roleplay.

Its a sad thing really that good characters are seen as bothersome or troublemakers in many mmos nowadays, but its more indicative of our society as a whole. That though is another conversation in itself.

Clover · **10-08-2013, 12:01 PM**

I think every kind of character is both fun to play and fun to play with (and I mustÂ admitÂ thatÂ I have a weakness for knightly characters). Joining a guild and seeing how everyone else falls from grace is also fun. It makes your character react, it makes them question things. Basically, it moves them in any direction, which is a positive thing in the RP.Â I think it's awesome that his IC guildmates are turning out to be very different than how he'd initially thought; doesn't that make your plot more interesting?

So I think you should just keep playing your character naturally, makeÂ him react to the events surrounding him, and enjoy the ride! (This also means to enjoy the other characters you play with; good or bad, they're awesome as well ^^)

Cato · **10-08-2013, 12:02 PM**

That depends, really. I find that I get bored pretty swiftly when interacting with any character that tries to define itself as being 'wholly good' or 'wholly evil'. After playing the likes of Final Fantasy XII, Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story as well as being an avid fan of the ASOIAF novels that inspired Game of Thrones i'm more keen on shades of grey rather than outright 'good' or 'evil'.

Another major issue is that it's very difficult to get morally questionable role-play going without a huge band of 'heroes' rushing to try and save the day, usually with the flawed expectation that the 'good guys should always prevail'. What's worse is that this attitude tends to lead to many role-players refusing to acknowledge that things are not nearly as black and white as they believe. There was no shortage of role-players back in WoW who branded the entirety of the Horde as needing to die whilst conveniently ignoring the flaws and war crimes of the Alliance, for example.

Rosekitten · **10-08-2013, 12:04 PM**

I wouldn't say boring if someone enjoys playing these types of characters. I've had my fair share of hero types on other rp communities. As far as FFXIV goes for a character I wouldn't call the one I play now a hero type. Though he still is generally good. But this could also depend on who is looking at the situation at hand.Â

As far as the hero type of character is concerned there isn't really a right or wrong way to play it and even if you are doing what is a good deep or a good act someone may still view it as being a act of evil. I have come across this in my rp'ing experience where even though the character is almost to the point of doing everything in his/her power to be good that there is certain situations where the correct thing to do is questionable.Â

I never did find playing the good guy boring though... I actually find playing the evil side of things a bit boring at times. I built my character to be pretty much .. normal as people have called him. He's not go risk life and limb to get the kitten out of the tree good but he has his morals and thoughts and will stick to them till the end. I like to consider him good because as a character I don't see him willingly going out and killing innocents without some damned good cause (there are some situations where there is good cause for this.. extreme as they may be).Â

Also in my experiences if someone goes all out to play the hero they can be very fun o rp with ^^ though maybe I just enjoy the long drawn out speeches of right and wrong that some characters tend to give Tongue

Salty Lake · **10-08-2013, 12:05 PM**

I don't play "good guys" because I don't find stories about good vs. evil very interesting. I'm in the camp that doesn't find such characters realistic as conflicts rarely work out so neatly in history, in my opinion. I think the biggest reason I like the Game of Thrones books/show is because the traditional hero and his hero's quest don't really work in that world. (Unless you're Brienne, but her story interests me because she is the most chivalrous and honorable character, but nobody takes her seriously 'cause she is a she, but that is off topic.)

But Final Fantasy is your fantasy, so put together a group of heroes if that is the type of storyline you like! I'd just encourage you to have a reasonable backstory for why your character has such a moral compass. I find it unrealistic when fantasy characters have values very common in the 21st century in a world where those values are not the norm. (There is an article about modern values in fantasy settings on this fantasy-writing Live Journal, but I forget which article it is.)

Faye · **10-08-2013, 12:19 PM**

I really like playing "good guy" characters (as well as villains/not so "good" people). I don't find it boring in the least. Since good guys are the heroes and protagonists of most stories and media, I think people view them as generic and overdone so they shy away from making these characters in RP, and thus we get the opposite effect: due to everyone's desire to be different, dark and edgy, good guys are the minority. I find good guys fun to play because of the moral conflicts.

But that being said, I admit most "heroic" guilds I've joined/run are full of people who aren't necessarily heroic (mercs, people with ulterior, motives). Once more, I find it really drives the whole moral conflict aspect, but... a genuine, truly good sort of heroic guild would be nice to see.

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **10-08-2013, 12:22 PM**

Sio is firmly Neutral Good. She's about as good guy as one can be while being harsh and definitive about extraneous things such as relationships and physical training. But ultimately, she's a white knight.

Is she fun?

Abso-freaking-lutely. Wouldn't swap her out for anything. I think 'good' and 'charming' don't need to go hand in hand and that's the part about playing this good character that I enjoy most.

Clover · **10-08-2013, 12:32 PM**

(10-08-2013, 12:02 PM)Theodric Ironheart Wrote: Another major issue is that it's very difficult to get morally questionable role-play going without a huge band of 'heroes' rushing to try and save the day, usually with the flawed expectation that the 'good guys should always prevail'.

But... what's wrong with a band of heroes going after your character? Isn't that fun as well? If I played a bad character, of course I'd need other characters to try to stop me. Wouldn't it be boring if no one played with me? *Sweatdrops*.

I think people just need to enjoy what they play and enjoy the world surrounding them. Everything that happens around you is a possible plot you can use to RP! So just make your character react properly and see how they develop within the context other players give you. Playing good, bad, smart, or stupid characters... there isn't anything wrong with any of that in my opinion. Diversity is nice, characters that oppose ours are fun, and even characters who do stupid things that apparently make no sense can also serve a purpose in our plots, for those things make us react, and action-reaction is what keeps the RP rolling.

Suisei'to · **10-08-2013, 12:32 PM**

Good is not absolute. Picard wasn't always good, Obi-won made mistakes and Frodo choose the ring in the end. Good characters are flawed in some way to inspire internal conflict. They have needs, even base needs, that have to be fulfilled along with their sense of justice. Motivation isn't what kills interest in a character, a boring character kills interest.Â

What unique characteristic does your character bring? What are his flaws? What happened in his past to make him so focused on justice? What are his vices?Â

Honestly I love hero characters. My latest is one, Aldwin . Â He's a sultansworn in training, trying to follow in his father's footsteps. He is over confident and places to much stake in his father's name instead of his own. Having a rude enchanted talking sword that doesn't respect him makes it worse. These help build up inner conflict and outer conflict that make him an engaging and interesting character.Â

Good is not absolute and your character is still human. They are going to make mistakes. They are going to be wrong at times. Play them up and make sure that this conflict can be seen play as day.

Xydane · **10-08-2013, 12:33 PM**

Well, I always tend to create characters that are more towards the "just" side so I find it extremely fun and exciting to play. In this case, a lot of twists and turns can conflict such as the examples others have previously posted. Then again, as an experienced RPer - RPing in WoW and still going strong - I have learned that a "heroic" character can only take their RP so far due to in-game reaction and it just simply changes things. I don't want to sound too complicated but if I can give out an example:

I RP an Orc Warrior hailing from the Frostwolf Clan in WoW. Now, this clan is one of the few more "honorable" clans, IMO, that escaped the corruption that the other orcish clans faced during time long passed. I try to make my warrior open-minded and while there are those who rule by strength and fear, there are also those who rule by wisdom and honor. My character honors strength, wisdom, compassion, humility, and the love of his people above all else. While I strive towards the "heroic" ideal and though the Horde faction might see it, in the Alliance's eyes - my Orc is nothing more than a bloodthirsty brute. Do you see where I am getting at? It's all a matter of opinion, other's reactions and views, and the standing point as to where your character find themselves in.

And again, it also depends on the story and situation. I consider Xydane and his older brother to be, yes, "good guys." Their ideals ares fueled by revenge as well as the love for family and friends. Final Fantasy XIV pits us against demi-gods and a ruling tyrannical army bent on seizing the world. You can obviously see Xydane's standpoint.

So far, I have seen many "neutral" characters during my time in FFXIV and not many "good guys" out there who openly show it. It would be nice to meet and gather with others who share the same ideals and concept but I also find the percentage of "heroic" characters, sadly, very low. I don't think many are willing to do it to be quite honest.

K'dath · **10-08-2013, 12:35 PM**

Morality is more fun when it's gray. It makes 'good' subjective and people can play characters that are 'right' without being bogged down by morals.

Often villains get the lion's share of character development, because they do bad things for a reason. They are justified, in their own way, and the awful machinations of their motives are explained. While with the good guys, they are just... good, and they have no reason other than they are good. Saving the world is excellent motivation, but why do you want to save the world? What has it done for you? What does it mean to you?

Even when everything is gray and there is not definitive right and wrong, I think it's still important to have characters like the stalwart, faithful Paladin who does only good things. It gives the morality of the world context, that someone is selfless and will save the day.

It's just a character that is a little time worn. People have seen it before, and in an attempt to give their own spin on it, have spun off course. They take the neat bits and pieces of characterization that come from the other side of the spectrum. That's why the grizzled mercenary, the ambivalent anti-hero, and the well intentioned extremist are more popular than straight good/evil diametric anymore.

If it's what you like, rock on. Because there needs to be that presence in the world. There needs to be hope. If everyone thinks the world is a crap sack, then nothing will ever get better.

Xydane · **10-08-2013, 12:39 PM**

(10-08-2013, 12:35 PM)Kdath Wrote: If it's what you like, rock on. Because there needs to be that presence in the world. There needs to be hope. If everyone thinks the world is a crap sack, then nothing will ever get better.

Now there's some motivation! Haha!

Suisei'to · **10-08-2013, 12:41 PM**

(10-08-2013, 12:35 PM)K Wrote: It's just a character that is a little time worn. People have seen it before, and in an attempt to give their own spin on it, have spun off course. They take the neat bits and pieces of characterization that come from the other side of the spectrum. That's why the grizzled mercenary, the ambivalent anti-hero, and the well intentioned extremist are more popular than straight good/evil diametric anymore.

This is a very good point. Â A good character needs to be unique and needs theirs morals explored. They need motivations and reasons along with conflict to define them.Â

Let's face it, The Knights of the round table didn't sit around in a tavern and drink all day. They went on hand quests, battled force enemies and became a brotherhood. A good character needs purpose outside of being good for goodness sake.

Magellan · **10-08-2013, 12:45 PM**

(10-08-2013, 12:01 PM)Clover Wrote: I think every kind of character is both fun to play and fun to play with (and I mustÂ admitÂ thatÂ I have a weakness for knightly characters). Joining a guild and seeing how everyone else falls from grace is also fun. It makes your character react, it makes them question things. Basically, it moves them in any direction, which is a positive thing in the RP.Â I think it's awesome that his IC guildmates are turning out to be very different than how he'd initially thought; doesn't that make your plot more interesting?

So I think you should just keep playing your character naturally, makeÂ him react to the events surrounding him, and enjoy the ride! (This also means to enjoy the other characters you play with; good or bad, they're awesome as well ^^)

These are great points and questions, and allow me to address them:

On some characters I love exploring gray areas. I love the emotion that comes from exploring dramatic interactions between characters, and seeing how much they can change and develop overtime through heartbreak, loss, grief, even happiness.

I guess, (again to use this as an example) with a band of heroes I'm looking for more of a team like the Enterprise, the Fellowship, the Jedid. They don't tear andclaw at one another, the conflict comes from external sources not internal. By working together and having each others backs, they can overcome their hurtles and obstacles together. It's no fun watching everyone fall from grace, and your character is the only one left, and they have fallen out of favor with their fallen friends. The joy of what made them fun to play is gone.

That sense of adventure, and takung on the world as a team is gone. Hope that clarifies!

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Are good guys boring to play?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes