RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Natya Rudh · **10-12-2013, 03:24 PM**

My alt character's family was nobility in Ala Mhigo but they fell from grace when Garlemald conquered that. Now they're refugees in Ul'dah xD

K'nahli · **10-12-2013, 04:33 PM**

(10-12-2013, 03:24 PM)Natya Rudh Wrote: My alt character's family was nobility in Ala Mhigo but they fell from grace when Garlemald conquered that. Now they're refugees in Ul'dah xD

Thats a very interesting plot actually if you don't mind me saying ^^

Kyrio Lamansque · **10-12-2013, 05:27 PM**

I'm going to be the weird Gilgamesh guy here throwing in a few gil in the conversation but..

I've found it very difficult to play nobles in MMO RP. One of the things that makes a noble a noble is the kind of.. weight and power and respect that comes along with the rank. And if someone decides not to give them that respect and pay a mind to the power, the noble usually has a way to bring that person into line.

And it's REALLY hard to get the random RPer to be like 'Oh, okay' and adjust to the fact that the character is a noble. Most of the time, at least in my experience, the response is more like 'Pff, well, my character doesn't care/doesn't recognize the authority' or what have you.

Natya Rudh · **10-12-2013, 05:29 PM**

(10-12-2013, 04:33 PM)K Wrote:
(10-12-2013, 03:24 PM)Natya Rudh Wrote: My alt character's family was nobility in Ala Mhigo but they fell from grace when Garlemald conquered that. Now they're refugees in Ul'dah xD

Thats a very interesting plot actually if you don't mind me saying ^^

Thank you <3

Faye · **10-12-2013, 05:36 PM**

(10-12-2013, 05:27 PM)Sukakun Wrote: I'm going to be the weird Gilgamesh guy here throwing in a few gil in the conversation but..

I've found it very difficult to play nobles in MMO RP. One of the things that makes a noble a noble is the kind of.. weight and power and respect that comes along with the rank. And if someone decides not to give them that respect and pay a mind to the power, the noble usually has a way to bring that person into line.

And it's REALLY hard to get the random RPer to be like 'Oh, okay' and adjust to the fact that the character is a noble. Most of the time, at least in my experience, the response is more like 'Pff, well, my character doesn't care/doesn't recognize the authority' or what have you.

I've had the same problem. In the previous MMO I played, there was actually a political system in the game where each region had a ruler and my character was one of those rulers almost every term. She was basically like the President, but when she introduced herself people would just be like, "Oh okay hi." I understand a lot of characters may have no care or respect for nobility or authority (which seems far too common, to be honest...), but it was a little disheartening that no one seemed to really... react. Â

Sadly, I don't really know what can be done about it, but I don't see it as a reason to abstain from playing characters who are nobility or otherwise in positions of power.

FreelanceWizard · **10-12-2013, 06:01 PM**

(10-12-2013, 05:36 PM)Faye Wrote: Sadly, I don't really know what can be done about it, but I don't see it as a reason to abstain from playing characters who are nobility or otherwise in positions of power.

Putting aside the other game for the moment, in most MMOs (including XIV), the problem is that you're asserting authority over another player's character and story without requesting their consent. For a lot of players, that's tantamount to godmoding, and it's no surprise to me that the reaction would be icy. It's similar to the problem of "player-run towns" -- a lot of RPers take the standpoint of, "Who gave you the right to tell me what I can and can't do? I didn't agree to that!" They don't recognize the authority because they don't feel it's appropriate or fair for you, as a player, to assert it in the first place. From an etiquette perspective, IMO, playing a character that asserts authority over other PCs without their consent is never a good idea.

As for nobility in general, I think the usual complaint is that it's often abused by those who want to demand respect and power IC without playing a character that would earn it; as such, it's gotten a bad reputation as a cheap Sue-ish trope at this point. That, I think, is the core of why most characters brush it off -- that, and you have no way to apply IC consequences to a random player who ignores it; your only only option is to walk away from the RP.

None of that is to say that noble concepts can't work, though. Usually, they work best if restricted to a group of like-minded (and consenting) players. Outside of that group, the concept needs to be set up so that it doesn't step on other players' toes. For instance, the house may be disgraced or otherwise cast down (which gives you a reason to adventure, too); it doesn't have any real power other than money and reputation (which would be the common case in XIV, which largely isn't feudal); it's in charge of an area that's "off the map" and so its authority doesn't apply to other PCs; etc.

Azureus Scipio · **10-12-2013, 06:05 PM**

(10-12-2013, 06:01 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(10-12-2013, 05:36 PM)Faye Wrote: Sadly, I don't really know what can be done about it, but I don't see it as a reason to abstain from playing characters who are nobility or otherwise in positions of power.

Putting aside the other game for the moment, in most MMOs (including XIV), the problem is that you're asserting authority over another player's character and story without requesting their consent. For a lot of players, that's tantamount to godmoding, and it's no surprise to me that the reaction would be icy. It's similar to the problem of "player-run towns" -- a lot of RPers take the standpoint of, "Who gave you the right to tell me what I can and can't do? I didn't agree to that!" They don't recognize the authority because they don't feel it's appropriate or fair for you, as a player, to assert it in the first place. From an etiquette perspective, IMO, playing a character that asserts authority over other PCs without their consent is never a good idea.

As for nobility in general, I think the usual complaint is that it's often abused by those who want to demand respect and power IC without playing a character that would earn it; as such, it's gotten a bad reputation as a cheap Sue-ish trope at this point. That, I think, is the core of why most characters brush it off -- that, and you have no way to apply IC consequences to a random player who ignores it; your only only option is to walk away from the RP.

None of that is to say that noble concepts can't work, though. Usually, they work best if restricted to a group of like-minded (and consenting) players. Outside of that group, the concept needs to be set up so that it doesn't step on other players' toes. For instance, the house may be disgraced or otherwise cast down (which gives you a reason to adventure, too); it doesn't have any real power other than money and reputation (which would be the common case in XIV, which largely isn't feudal); it's in charge of an area that's "off the map" and so its authority doesn't apply to other PCs; etc.

This guy speaks the truth ^

Erik Mynhier · **10-12-2013, 06:11 PM**

Erik's mother (an 3/4 Midlander, 1/4 Wildwood) was a member of the House Fortemps. She was disliked by her family, as was her hybrid mother (Erik's grandmother, she died in childbirth) for her hyur heritage. Her maternal grandfather loved her greatly, which is what kept her "safe" most of her life. However soon after he died she became pregnant with Erik out of wedlock, "dishonoring" the family. The new head of the House was going be "drastic" with her, using his connections in the church to have her branded a heretic. Ulrich (Erik's father) saved her from the inquisitor (hint: he used his sword... a lot) and took her back to Ala Mhigo.

So is he of noble blood? Yes.
Does he know? Yes.
Does he care? No.
Does it play into my RP? In only one aspect, yes very much, but only in that one small aspect.

Faye · **10-12-2013, 06:20 PM**

(10-12-2013, 06:01 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(10-12-2013, 05:36 PM)Faye Wrote: Sadly, I don't really know what can be done about it, but I don't see it as a reason to abstain from playing characters who are nobility or otherwise in positions of power.

Putting aside the other game for the moment, in most MMOs (including XIV), the problem is that you're asserting authority over another player's character and story without requesting their consent. For a lot of players, that's tantamount to godmoding, and it's no surprise to me that the reaction would be icy. It's similar to the problem of "player-run towns" -- a lot of RPers take the standpoint of, "Who gave you the right to tell me what I can and can't do? I didn't agree to that!" They don't recognize the authority because they don't feel it's appropriate or fair for you, as a player, to assert it in the first place. From an etiquette perspective, IMO, playing a character that asserts authority over other PCs without their consent is never a good idea.

As for nobility in general, I think the usual complaint is that it's often abused by those who want to demand respect and power IC without playing a character that would earn it; as such, it's gotten a bad reputation as a cheap Sue-ish trope at this point. That, I think, is the core of why most characters brush it off -- that, and you have no way to apply IC consequences to a random player who ignores it; your only only option is to walk away from the RP.

None of that is to say that noble concepts can't work, though. Usually, they work best if restricted to a group of like-minded (and consenting) players. Outside of that group, the concept needs to be set up so that it doesn't step on other players' toes. For instance, the house may be disgraced or otherwise cast down (which gives you a reason to adventure, too); it doesn't have any real power other than money and reputation (which would be the common case in XIV, which largely isn't feudal); it's in charge of an area that's "off the map" and so its authority doesn't apply to other PCs; etc.

I think you've... missed the point? No one here has said anything about ruling cities and I should hope that won't come up, because that's really silly. No one, myself or otherwise, has stated that our characters of nobility have been giving anyone orders, or expecting other characters to actually follow any such orders. Aside from her guild members ranking under her and her employees, my character, both in this game and in that previous MMO I mentioned, has never given anyone else orders. Â It's not "asserting authority," it's expecting others to have the decency to respect how you've made your character. If you met the President walking down the street, you may not obey what he says to you (though chances are, he won't be giving you any orders, much like the noble characters in question here), but I think you would at least stop and say, "Oh, wow... was that really the President?"

Giving a character political strength is no different than giving a character physical strength. If someone tells me his character is physically strong, I don't say, "Oh, your character is strong? Are you implying he's stronger than my character!? Are you implying he can force my character to do things!? God-modder! Power-player!!" Why? Because that's ridiculous. So why do the same thing when it comes to political and social influence? Someone giving their character a strength does not mean they think their character is stronger than yours in that aspect or in general, or that they intend to use that strength to lord over other characters. It's just an aspect of their character, and one that's polite to acknowledge should it ever come up IC.

Gharen · **10-12-2013, 06:27 PM**

(10-12-2013, 05:36 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-12-2013, 05:27 PM)Sukakun Wrote: I'm going to be the weird Gilgamesh guy here throwing in a few gil in the conversation but..

I've found it very difficult to play nobles in MMO RP. One of the things that makes a noble a noble is the kind of.. weight and power and respect that comes along with the rank. And if someone decides not to give them that respect and pay a mind to the power, the noble usually has a way to bring that person into line.

And it's REALLY hard to get the random RPer to be like 'Oh, okay' and adjust to the fact that the character is a noble. Most of the time, at least in my experience, the response is more like 'Pff, well, my character doesn't care/doesn't recognize the authority' or what have you.

I've had the same problem. In the previous MMO I played, there was actually a political system in the game where each region had a ruler and my character was one of those rulers almost every term. She was basically like the President, but when she introduced herself people would just be like, "Oh okay hi." I understand a lot of characters may have no care or respect for nobility or authority (which seems far too common, to be honest...), but it was a little disheartening that no one seemed to really... react. Â

Sadly, I don't really know what can be done about it, but I don't see it as a reason to abstain from playing characters who are nobility or otherwise in positions of power.

I think alot of this reaction stems from the stigma of someone of elevating their character above others. Similar instances of this were in the thread regarding use of Artifact gear in rp it's the "What makes you so special!?" syndrome and is likely an offshoot of having to deal with mary sues and godmoders. Simply put being nobility demands a certain amount of respect from the get go. Which is something that many of us have been brought up is earned not given. This bleeds through our characters whether we know it or not.

Also people that name their characters "Lord " or "Lady" don't help the situation at all.

Personally, I have no issue with someone who's character is noble, as long as there is a believable reason this character is associating with and not lording over the rest of us rabble. Which By the way all of the reasons I've seen so far in this thread have been great.

Naunet · **10-12-2013, 06:29 PM**

Lord of what? Lady of what?

Nobility generally implies some sort of hereditary power (typically tied to land ownership) and doesn't exist in isolation. As far as I know, Ishgard is the only society in Eorzea with a system of noble families.

LiadansWhisper · **10-12-2013, 06:36 PM**

(10-12-2013, 06:20 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-12-2013, 06:01 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(10-12-2013, 05:36 PM)Faye Wrote: Sadly, I don't really know what can be done about it, but I don't see it as a reason to abstain from playing characters who are nobility or otherwise in positions of power.

Putting aside the other game for the moment, in most MMOs (including XIV), the problem is that you're asserting authority over another player's character and story without requesting their consent. For a lot of players, that's tantamount to godmoding, and it's no surprise to me that the reaction would be icy. It's similar to the problem of "player-run towns" -- a lot of RPers take the standpoint of, "Who gave you the right to tell me what I can and can't do? I didn't agree to that!" They don't recognize the authority because they don't feel it's appropriate or fair for you, as a player, to assert it in the first place. From an etiquette perspective, IMO, playing a character that asserts authority over other PCs without their consent is never a good idea.

As for nobility in general, I think the usual complaint is that it's often abused by those who want to demand respect and power IC without playing a character that would earn it; as such, it's gotten a bad reputation as a cheap Sue-ish trope at this point. That, I think, is the core of why most characters brush it off -- that, and you have no way to apply IC consequences to a random player who ignores it; your only only option is to walk away from the RP.

None of that is to say that noble concepts can't work, though. Usually, they work best if restricted to a group of like-minded (and consenting) players. Outside of that group, the concept needs to be set up so that it doesn't step on other players' toes. For instance, the house may be disgraced or otherwise cast down (which gives you a reason to adventure, too); it doesn't have any real power other than money and reputation (which would be the common case in XIV, which largely isn't feudal); it's in charge of an area that's "off the map" and so its authority doesn't apply to other PCs; etc.

I think you've... missed the point? No one here has said anything about ruling cities and I should hope that won't come up, because that's really silly. No one, myself or otherwise, has stated that our characters of nobility have been giving anyone orders, or expecting other characters to actually follow any such orders. Aside from her guild members ranking under her and her employees, my character, both in this game and in that previous MMO I mentioned, has never given anyone else orders. Â It's not "asserting authority," it's expecting others to have the decency to respect how you've made your character. If you met the President walking down the street, you may not obey what he says to you (though chances are, he won't be giving you any orders, much like the noble characters in question here), but I think you would at least stop and say, "Oh, wow... was that really the President?"

Giving a character political strength is no different than giving a character physical strength. If someone tells me his character is physically strong, I don't say, "Oh, your character is strong? Are you implying he's stronger than my character!? Are you implying he can force my character to do things!? God-modder! Power-player!!" Why? Because that's ridiculous. So why do the same thing when it comes to political and social influence? Someone giving their character a strength does not mean they think their character is stronger than yours in that aspect or in general, or that they intend to use that strength to lord over other characters. It's just an aspect of their character, and one that's polite to acknowledge should it ever come up IC.

I think you are perhaps misunderstanding what Freelance was saying.

The act of acknowledging that your character is nobility or a person of power puts the character who is acknowledging your power into your power.

Maybe a better way to put it is...if I ICly acknowledge your nobility/rule, I am giving consent that you are, in fact, that person in-character and you do, in fact, have authority over me. Â Many players either resent this, or flat-out refuse to do so, because they feel that it is a form of god-modding that you came up with the concept in the first place if you expect your noble status to affect their character.

God-modding because you didn't ask them specifically if they were okay with your background choices, etc.

Which is why Freelance also recommended that such RP be done among consenting players.

Cato · **10-12-2013, 07:06 PM**

I'd love to see some genuine intrigue for a change instead of a constant string of extravagant parties and noble women shagging commoners with no meaningful consequences as a result of their antics. It's why I'm always so wary of people who choose to role-play a noble in MMO's. In the majority of cases it's done poorly and a lot of role-players do it in a way that allows their character to embrace all the perks and very few of the drawbacks that come with it.

It can be done well, of course, but that tends to be fairly rare. I'd be up for offering my grim Ishgardian noble for some intrigue based around what we can see in Coerthas, since I'd much prefer to work with what actually exists in the setting instead of copying and pasting the generic 'nobility' from elsewhere and fitting them into Eorzea. After all, the risk of being branded a 'heretic' as a result of an emerging scandal would make for some excellent role-play!

Natya Rudh · **10-12-2013, 07:25 PM**

(10-12-2013, 06:29 PM)Naunet Wrote: Lord of what? Lady of what?

Nobility generally implies some sort of hereditary power (typically tied to land ownership) and doesn't exist in isolation. As far as I know, Ishgard is the only society in Eorzea with a system of noble families.

We know Ul'dah has nobility, we know Garlemald has nobility, Ala Mhigo, being a formerly independant nation, probably had nobility. Ishgard is not the only society in Eorzea with noble families, it is simply the one with the most emphasis on them.

LiadansWhisper · **10-12-2013, 07:30 PM**

(10-12-2013, 07:25 PM)Natya Rudh Wrote:
(10-12-2013, 06:29 PM)Naunet Wrote: Lord of what? Lady of what?

Nobility generally implies some sort of hereditary power (typically tied to land ownership) and doesn't exist in isolation. As far as I know, Ishgard is the only society in Eorzea with a system of noble families.

We know Ul'dah has nobility, we know Garlemald has nobility, Ala Mhigo, being a formerly independant nation, probably had nobility. Ishgard is not the only society in Eorzea with noble families, it is simply the one with the most emphasis on them.

There are nobles in Gridania, although we know almost nothing about them.

« Next Oldest \| Next Newest »
Pages (10): « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 … 10 Next » Jump to page:

Nobility in RP

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes