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Celeste · **10-31-2013, 01:25 AM**

So I've been punting around an idea in my head for my character, Celeste, and I'm just about finalized on most things. There are just a few small details that I would like to iron out...

One of these is debating whether or not I should give Celeste the ability to use the Echo. Now, I know that in-game we're all "echo users," which appears to be a blessing of Hydaelen and allows the PCs to be able to do lots of incredible things, but I was wondering what the RPC thought about it as a character trait?

For some context my character is one that came out of the Cindalaes in search for her father, who went home to Ala Mhigo when Garlamald attacked. She says openly she has been "touched by Oschon" which is a clever thing I came up with (if I say so myself) to mean she's a wandering vagabond.

Now, one of the things that I thought would make her useful in a lot of RPs is knowing lots of different people during her travels -- from Limsa to Ishgard to Gridania. Mostly this would be in the form of casual contacts for freelance work, merchants that are honest and pay well, that sort of thing. Then it occurs to me that it may also be interesting if she had the echo to talk to the Beastmen tribes as well. This would be an added layer to her style which makes her much more open-minded (not that she needed any help there) and maybe a little strange (not that she needed any help there either).

I'm mostly worried at the potential for mary sueishness though, since there are a lot of implications with possessing the echo. So what do you guys think? What could be some of the objections people might have as including this canon character trait to our RP characters?

LandStander · **10-31-2013, 02:00 AM**

Well you must first also realize that Garlemald took over Ala Mhigo 20 years ago. And 5 years prior to that it was under the rule of Theodorac the King of Ruin who basically massacred a lot of his people.Â

From what I have seen with The Echo is that the person cannot control it. I admit that I have not finished the storyline though and am only at Garuda. I would RP it as asking the person permission to see something about their past and then them filling you in (as opposed to maybe trying to hunt down their profile on the RPC or something).Â I mean you would solve any problems with other RPers by simply asking them permission ^^.

Leomoon · **10-31-2013, 03:04 AM**

I haven't gotten very far in the story line.(been too bust to level past 18 yet) but from what I understand a Echo is a vision of are past in witch we died in the past life from the war not too long ago before and during the moon dropping out of the sky.

So in that was aren't we just connecting with are past life after we where reborn.

Ildur · **10-31-2013, 04:11 AM**

I have finished the storyline, and I do not think the interpretation of the Echo as reminiscence of a past were 'we died' can be supported for non-Legacy players (I have no idea if the Legacy storyline changes enough to justify it, though, but I do not think it does).
I can understand where it comes from, though: the first Echo scenes with the Scions show Dalamud up in the sky before they use they Scion-Gadget-o Vision googles to notice aetheric disturbances and immediately head to the place where you have just met them. So it does seem like the writers were trying to hint at something, but the ball is dropped immediately and is never brought back. As far as the storyline is concerned, it's just something that happened 5 years ago too. A coincidence.

With that said, apparently Hydaelyn can 'temper' people (or chose them, if you will) and give them the Echo, which allows them to 'connect' with people on a primordial level (kind of an empathic link, I'd say) and see their memories.
It is not a voluntary ability, though, so your character won't be able to use it consciously. And when an Echo scene happens, your character will be oblivious of the world around her for quite a while. Judging by the storyline, the ammount of time you spend 'in trance' depends on how long the scene is. So keep that in mind if you RP an Echo user.

Incidentally, having the Echo doesn't really give you any awesome ability beyond that (though I guess you could argue that all the feats you are capable of during the main storyline are because of it). The only 'Mary-Sue-ish' use you could do with the Echo is forcing people into revealing details of their characters to you. But you can easily solve that by giving them full control of what you are able to see. Ask them OOCly with a whisper if they are okay with your character having an "Echo-scene" about their character and then ask them to give you a description of what she'd see (because, remember, your character has literally no control over the Echo, so you wouldn't be able to interact with the memory at all).
As long as you give the other player full control of what information you can gather with the Echo, I don't think there should be any problems with it.

Lament · **10-31-2013, 05:48 AM**

One of my alts, Ethne, has the Echo. It's an important part of her background - the visions are a driving force for her.

I don't see it as Mary Sueish. It can be an interesting plot device, if used well. Just make sure you ask for permission before having a vision about someone, and you're fine.

Celeste · **10-31-2013, 11:30 AM**

(10-31-2013, 02:00 AM)LandStander Wrote: Well you must first also realize that Garlemald took over Ala Mhigo 20 years ago. And 5 years prior to that it was under the rule of Theodorac the King of Ruin who basically massacred a lot of his people.Â

From what I have seen with The Echo is that the person cannot control it. I admit that I have not finished the storyline though and am only at Garuda. I would RP it as asking the person permission to see something about their past and then them filling you in (as opposed to maybe trying to hunt down their profile on the RPC or something).Â I mean you would solve any problems with other RPers by simply asking them permission ^^.

I knew that Garlemald happened 20 years ago, and in truth Celeste's father had been gone a long time. So long, in fact, that she was raised by a friend at the Cindalaes. This is one of the big reasons why she's wandering -- she's searching for her dad, who has been gone for a really long time (and everything else that implies...)

Leomoon

Quote:I haven't gotten very far in the story line.(been too bust to level past 18 yet) but from what I understand a Echo is a vision of are past in witch we died in the past life from the war not too long ago before and during the moon dropping out of the sky.

So in that was aren't we just connecting with are past life after we where reborn.

I had never heard this theory. o_o Also since people had the echo even before the fall of Dalamund at Cartaneau, I would say that theory is kiboshed.

Ildur

Quote:As long as you give the other player full control of what information you can gather with the Echo, I don't think there should be any problems with it.

Well, actually... in 1.0 we did have some control over it though only incidentally. We would be provided with a scene and afterwards would have an opportunity to click on a glowing iridescent light. We'd then be prompted with the option "use the echo?" I was sort of curious with why they made that change, though it is nice that it's an ability no longer under our control.

Incidentally, people are able to be made aware of the fact that you are using the echo on them. Kan-E-Senna's sister, Raya-O-Senna, got QUITE upset when she finds you in her memories. Calling you VERY rude.

Lament

Quote:I don't see it as Mary Sueish. It can be an interesting plot device, if used well. Just make sure you ask for permission before having a vision about someone, and you're fine.

I hope I can use it well! I am definitely aware of the possibility of really dumb people going "hur-ur-ur, tell me your backstory so I can know it too. :B" It's definitely an important consideration, though. =)

General Notes:

One thing I'm noticing is everybody equates the echo with the ability to enter into the past. That is only one of the abilities that is granted, and there appears to be varying degrees of being able to do that. There are other abilities that are involved with the echo -- the ability to sense other people's emotions, the ability to understand all languages, and the ability to enter the memories of those nearby. In Legacy, Minfilia led a group called The Path of Twelve, which housed a slew of Echo users. She mentions then that the people vary in their powers from being able to sense feelings, to communicating, to seeing visions -- and not all individuals had the same powers to the same degree. There was even a merchant Lalafell that found his ability to communicate with beastmen tribes was very helpful for his business.

I'm pretty sure that the Sylphs were able to talk to you only because you have the Echo as well, but I'm not 100% sure if that's right. It was a long time ago...

Ildur · **10-31-2013, 01:22 PM**

I'm assuming that the reason they took out the "Use the Echo?" prompt was because it was irrelevant. I never played 1.0, but it sounds like you really didn't have a choice about it: you either used it, or you didn't advance in the plot.

Celeste Wrote:Incidentally, people are able to be made aware of the fact that you are using the echo on them. Kan-E-Senna's sister, Raya-O-Senna, got QUITE upset when she finds you in her memories. Calling you VERY rude.

Raya-O-Senna is a Padjal, though. They are known to have a natural affinity towards the elements and nature, so it isn't hard to imagine their affinity would pour a bit into 'understanding' Hydaelyn since she is basically the world's natural life force.

The Echo isn't really explored in the current ARR storyline, which is kind of a shame. It's mostly used to explain why the Primals can't temper you, as a plot/world exposition excuse (seeing into the past) and...well, that's it, I think. I vaguely remember a hint about getting used to the Echo, which could imply being able to use it semi-freely but, again, it's never explored nor used in this storyline.

On the Sylphs: Papalymo and Yda also talk with the Sylphs. They don't have the Echo. Later on, in Little Ala Mhigo, the refugee leader understands the Amalj'aa. This implies that the beastmen are capable of speaking in whatever common tongue Eorzeans use.
But you are right in that the Player Character is very distinctly shown to understand all languages: every time one of the masked wizards speaks in purple text in a black dialogue box, they are speaking in another language. I think they even point it out at some point, but I'm not sure.

synaesthetic · **11-02-2013, 04:48 PM**

I thought all the Scions had the Echo, which is why they can actually fight primals--because they can't be tempered.

Torvhan · **11-03-2013, 05:07 AM**

So I spent the last few hours on the lore forums looking for some answers for you. To add to Celeste's statement about Raya-O-Senna recognizing the player, I remember reading once that "The Midlander's" second party recognized him from the time he helped their quest in the Echo.

I'll dig some more thru our forums it may have been brought up in the past but for certain echo events such as the ones "The Midlander" took place. You not only see the past but interact with it. People will recognize you, and you actually fight but nothing you do will actually change the outcome. Silly Temporal Paradoxes.

For information on "The Midlander" (the guy from the CG's) I dug up these:
Gamerescape: Opening Cinematic
CG Midlander Thread: Post #226 by Fernehalwes
CG Midlander Thread: Post #227 by Fernehalwes

But those Echo events are slightly different from the memories digging we typically do in 2.0.

Not really an edit because I haven't posted yet but SUCCESS:
Interresting Explination of the Lore...Post #6 by Rhostel

Finally tracked down on of the old lore threads I remember that mentioned the party remembering the CG midlander. Rhostel also mentions Minfilia in 1.0 also remembers you using the Echo during a quest.

For my own 2cents, with nothing to support it officially wise: All the people who brought up as remembering you all likely have the Echo themselves. As most "Adventures" do and I'm sure Raya-O-Senna likely does. On the flipside when you first experience the Scion's memories such as Thancred at the begining of the game he only seems to respond to the event when you mention you where seeing his memories.

But what this leads me to probably roll with until we get new info is actual trips to the past people will recognize you as having been there. But if your memory diving its probably based on the persons own Echo sense, in such that some Echo users will be able to detect you in their memories while some may not.