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Steel Wolf · **02-05-2014, 11:13 AM**

Okay, so....couple of weeks ago, I'll have to admit to some personal anxiety.Â None of it was instigated by anyone--actually the folks I'm with have been nothing but welcoming and silly and generally finding me charming so far, which is weird, because I seem to be anathema to most people.

Now, recently I've been caught between two walls.Â On the left, the wall that would like to make some endgame moves--fully kit up, be ready for whatever else comes my way, cry tears of vicious frustration at the EX Primals and their hard-ness...on the right, the wall that worries about inexperience, and the famed "raider's attitude":Â the one that demands this level, that build, that class layout and Twelve know how much experience.

I don't deny that having the right ingredients is important, and I absolutely do not fault people for that mentality.Â But I also don't deny that I REAAAALLY get nervous about this sorta thing.Â I'm willing to learn, but...I dunno.

I currently am iL 71.Â Some inexperience in a couple of the dungeons has frozen me from entering Duty Roulette, and this fear has crippled me utterly from touching anything 2.1...and with 2.2 coming down the pipe, I'm not sure why the hell I'm still subscribed.Â (Short answer: crafting is still fun).

TL;DR-- Halp.Â ;-;

Olofantur · **02-05-2014, 11:37 AM**

"Oh hey you should totally join Balmungs finest to get in on some hassle free 4man HMs and tome far- frack Gilgamesh"

Putting that aside, i'm assuming the "crap" you've gotten is Rouletting the Myth tome dungeons and people going "Hurr durr speed run Y U No pull first 3 groups of AK and chain pull the giants all the way to the door when they're below half percent" In which case, fuck em'.

Which is infinitely easier said than done, but seriously, if people aren't comfortable moving at the pace of the tank they need to learn to drop group or suck it up. Do I enjoy Tam-tara for my daily taking 60 minutes because the tank decides to stone skin himself every pull? not necessarily, but the tank is the conductor of the symphony that is a dungeon run and [I might catch some flak for this] so long as their keeping the healers mana and skills in mind, I think they deserve carte blanche. How many DPS are asked to mark what they CC, heck how many DPS speak up that they can/will CC something? Not often, they sit silent nodding their heads along making no attempt to contribute beyond /exactly/ whats asked of them with no pro-activeness.

Ranting aside, just hop back in, maybe target the few dungeons you're having a rough time completing with a pre-made group a few times. Pharos Sirius [which I would guess is the inexperience part] isn't gentle.

Pep talk? pep talk..

[Sub out compliments of appearance for dungeon skills.]

EDIT:
Also this site is good for generic dungeon guides [as well as much else]
http://eorzea-source.com/dungeon-guide/pharos-sirius

Kage · **02-05-2014, 11:50 AM**

I feel exactly the same way a lot of the times! There's a reason I don't feel comfy even attempting to start a learning T1-2 coil party just yet..

As a tank, not to put anyÂ unwanted pressure or anything on you, it's your show. If you want to cautiously pull the mobs, as DPS I'm fine with that. You mark things? I go from 1-3 with 1 being the priority. Want me to sleep? I.. Well I don't know most of the sleep mechanics/strats so I'd need direction on that. I'll just sleep whatever you tell me to. Are we running? I'll follow you as best as a I can but sometimes it just feels like lalafells run slower. I'll ask if you want me to just burn the bees of AK down or if you want me to lb them.

I didn't feel comfortable with AK until recently after I did the run with a friend or two a couple of times while gathering the Philo tomes I needed for my relic. WP is the same except I've only run it twice now. I haven't unlocked the other HM dungeons (Haukke, Copperbell) or Pharos Sirius just yet... but I don't think I'm ever going to unlock Pharos Sirius xD. Perhaps you can get a few premades with people in PF or get some friends to help out?

I've found that learning by doing is still the best experience... I just need to work up that courage.

Steel Wolf · **02-05-2014, 11:54 AM**

I've actually not even unlocked Pharos Sirius, by virtue of reading the popular opinion of it being generally unbalanced and discarded by most.Â Actually, my inexperience is more embarassing a list.

Specifically....

HM Ultima
HM Copperbell
HM Other Dungeon I Can't Remember
Qarn
Cutter's Cry
Coil in any measure
Crystal Tower

....but, I really do appreciate the pep talk, honestly.Â I should probably mention that I am very good at marking targets, and I DO read up on dungeons I've not entered before.Â Though, I also should mention that I learn better by doing.

Nykkus Trachspyr · **02-05-2014, 12:08 PM**

In all honesty - out of genuine concern and understanding for a fellow community member with anxiety issues - the Unsung Heroes are a great group to both raid with, and simply do some dungeon running with. I mention this simply as an aside to whatever other groups/FC you already belong to.

Also, I am always willing, on either Nykkus, or Rhuvian Vastitas, to run through dungeons with people and provide help on whatever role you are going as, as well as specific pointers on whatever dungeon we happen to be in. As impatient as I am IRL with many things, I am always happy to teach and help guide others in game.

As someone who deals with anxiety attacks on a literal daily basis I can sympathize with where you, or anyone else is coming from. In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to having an OOC LS made specifically for people in this situation, in which people helped each other with both their anxiety IRL, and their IG needs.

If you genuinely want to experience the content you mentioned, and are willing to stare that particular void in the eye, please don't hesitate to look me up. That goes for anyone reading this that may experience said problems. I know what it is like. You CANNOT allow it to control your actions in life, or you give it power. Send me a /tell anytime folks.

Olofantur · **02-05-2014, 12:09 PM**

HM Ultima - Is rough, or it can be, yeah I would chalk this one up to practice.
HM Copperbell - Is it mostly the boss on the bridge with the fire waves and the adds? I also know that a lot of people aren't the best with tossing the rocks to catch the worm on the last boss, which is the DPS responsibility.
HM Haukke Manor* - Is interesting, it really helps to have a BLM or Bard along for the 1st and last boss. Also don't be afraid to CC, [Not sure if you know but WHM's have repose to sleep if you miss out on a BLM.]
Qarn - Oh lordy, that second boss with its "Beserk" aggro table that you can't taunt, joy-joy-joy, the last ones pretty easy and has a guide on Eorzeareborn.com
Cutter's Cry - ?? huh.. I didn't think [aside from the first boss] this one gave people much trouble, getting people to stack on the tank when adds spawn, or Stunning the boss and shield lobbing/ making sure they burn the big one that heals tends to make it quick. If its the last boss, well Chimera is fun I thought >_> Blue out, Purple in, [You can actually out range the purple if you're a dps or healer and the tanks at the bottom of the pit by going up the cliff near the entrance.]
Coil in any measure/CT - yeeeeah... practice Q_Q

tl: dr Get a static group and go smash your head against a wall!

McBeefâ„¢ · **02-05-2014, 12:24 PM**

I feel your pain a little, but my advice is go for it, figure out the dungeons and wipe a bunch of groups by doing so. The reason is, tanking isn't mechanically that hard in this game, its just that when the tank screws up, someone dies. DPS and heals mess up all the time, but normally the group won't get wiped by a miscast heal, or someone messing up their rotation. Even AoEs are much more important for the tank to dodge, basically *every* fight (except for twintania maybe), can be beaten with an DPS dead, but if the tank dies it's almost always a wipe.(Unless there is a OT waiting in the wings)

Now that wasn't to scare you, but it's to illustrate that being a tank, while not always complicated, has a very small margin of error, and requires you know exactly what to do. Heres the catch, the only way you'll figure it out is by doing dungeons and wiping groups. And that's not a bad thing, I did it, I'm in groups with tanks that do it, everyone has to learn sometime. It really doesn't make people as mad as you'd think.

Even if you watch a video or read a guide, there is no way you'll know how to exactly position the end boss in Ampador Keep, or expertly dodge the chimera's breath attacks in cutters, on your first try. While if you use the PF I'd let people know you're inexperienced, anyone who does the DF needs to be prepared for new people. If they get mad at you, just leave, or vote abandon, or let them kick you, it's fine, you'll never see them again. It's no shame on you to not expertly understand a dungeon on your first run through, and anyone who expects you to is a jerk. Generally they'll be at least 1 or 2 people in a group who know exactly what to do, so just ignore the haters and take the advice of the helpful. Trust me, the helpful outnumber the haters by a large margin.

Source: I'm not the best tank in the world but I've done my first clears of everything up to twintania in DF or PF groups.

Olofantur · **02-05-2014, 12:30 PM**

(02-05-2014, 12:08 PM)Nykkus Trachspyr Wrote: In all honesty - out of genuine concern and understanding for a fellow community member with anxiety issues - the Unsung Heroes are a great group to both raid with, and simply do some dungeon running with. I mention this simply as an aside to whatever other groups/FC you already belong to.
-snip-

*points to server tag*

Kage · **02-05-2014, 12:30 PM**

If you were on Balmung I'd say I'd party with you. My friend joined up later than I had and mains a Paladin so I ended up being one of the "mentors" in our group with my other friend who does WHM. I went with him through Qarn, Cutter's and CT (along with another of our friends who plays WAR. That was an interesting experience).

Starting with Qarn, I've decided it's a little bit of a tank check since (not essential but preferred) some targets are highest priority (BEES). Also there's those blocks that need to be killed on the tiles. The golem is interesting because it wipes its aggro table a bit so it switches even though you have full hate. Flying lalafell screws with my camera xD The last boss is essentially dodge the aoes while you just tank the boss. Ranged DPS have it easy with the first boss as there is a spot for you to be out of range for doom. My friend who is inexperienced with tanking found it easier than he'd thought it would be.

Cutter's Cry - Basically you just pull tank. The chimera is only hard if you have people who don't know what to do with the Blue / Purple though you do want to avoid its frontal cone attack.

CT - Barring the first few mobs, I don't think it would be too hard. If you can, you can get a premade and most likely you can OT things. You pull things in order or facing a certain way (Valefors. Their tails need to face AWAY from people). For Bone dragon, you aggro the Platinals (Skeletons) to the tiles furthest from the center on the outside and kill them there (1 skelly per tile). This gives DPS more time to kill them before reaching the boss and dealing dmg to the whole alliance (putting them close together gives them a sprint buff). Vassago/Bomb You take the adds that need to be taken down asap or you tank the Vassago so it faces the lava (outside, so you want your butt outside). Move it when the large aoe appears so no one is in it, including yourself. KB you can ask to be on a tower and for the fight you're essentially there to click the tower or run to a comet. Very rarely have I seen the need for the tower tanks to take up aggro when King Behemoth kills the mt or the tank on Iron Giant comes. (Basically take IG away from comets and KB). Archeron is pretty simple for everyone. Just make sure you kill the Iron Claws and get to your platform so you don't die to the wide flare thing he does.

-I actually didn't know one of our BRDs yesterday in a CT PF group was new. We only found out when he killed 2 skellys upfront when he had aggro and didn't move. (The worst part was the paladin who was AFK most of it and was just watching it happen in front of him and into Atomos and we decided to Vote Kick him) We let him know it's ok and I explained the fights while making sure the alliance knew we weren't ready while I did it.

tl;dr Just go at it Big Grin

Take a friend along if you're worried about the wipes. Everyone is inexperienced at one point.

Illira · **02-05-2014, 12:32 PM**

Its also important to note that while the tank is often the conductor/bottleneck of a raid's pace, this isn't always the case. An experienced tank with an inexperienced group has to adjust their pace according to how fast the DPS can bring mobs down and how well a healer can keep them up through a pull of mobs, en masse, as in a speed run. The tank just tends to get more flack for any mess up, as their the first line of defense and things go bad quick once they die.

Heck, just the other day I was stuck in a DRed Copperbell HM run that only cleared with a minute left. We'd had problems with one of our dps not paying attention or listening to the group's advice, he ended dropping and our replacement hadn't played in a while or run it before.

Its a two-way street, and sometimes people, especially PUGs looking for their daily grind forget that. I'd suggest perusing party finder for runs, especially ones that don't note things like: "FARMING ONLY!!!", keep an eye out for learning runs or ones that don't give off an elitist vibe. That doesn't help with DR strictly, but it certainly can with CT (though... these days CT is mostly a troll fest and even having a good party can't always mitigate issues with the rest of the alliance). And be sure to let the group know at the start if you haven't done it before/don't have it all down yet. It helps the pace and vibe alot to do so, and if theres anyone that objects, they can leave at the beginning instead of feeling fed-up later on at not having a speed run and pressuring the party.

You should do your best not to let the pressure to run through and pull all the things!?!?!, or other similar requests for increased, but risky "efficiency" get to you if you disagree/don't feel comfortable/don't want to go along with them. Even if someone is jumping around like their pants are on fire. They can stand to chillax a little.

Try to reach out to contacts and friends of yours for a few runs to help settle into the dungeons your feeling uncomfortable with, even having just one along with you can help alot!

Nykkus Trachspyr · **02-05-2014, 12:34 PM**

(02-05-2014, 12:30 PM)Olofantur Wrote:
(02-05-2014, 12:08 PM)Nykkus Trachspyr Wrote: In all honesty - out of genuine concern and understanding for a fellow community member with anxiety issues - the Unsung Heroes are a great group to both raid with, and simply do some dungeon running with. I mention this simply as an aside to whatever other groups/FC you already belong to.
-snip-

*points to server tag*

Whoops! My message still applies however, to those on Balmung. For those NOT on Balmung you are welcome to PM me here as well, and I'll do what I can.

Nebbs · **02-05-2014, 01:23 PM**

Ok gonna wade in.. as a DPS who then did healing and is now tanking also.. and who has mained as tank in other games...

Tanking is something you can learn, and expeiance counts a lot after the basics, both of your ability use and the specific dungeon pulls, bosses etc.. Like any class at some point you stop thinking and your responces become natural.

Now, the problem with PuG (inc Roulette) is that often others do not adjust their play for the rest of the party. They assume everyone is an leet player (like they mistakenly think they are) and cut no one any slack. Then when it goes wrong blame others.

As DPS and even healer you can hide from this more, but as the tank you tend to be the linchpin.

However, all is not bad...
1. You are a rare thing, they have to wait for DF but you get in streight away. So be ok with being kicked and go get a nicer group.
2. You can mark and state the kill style.Â
3. State you are new so others have a chance to adjust.
4. Ask for boss tips and take comments as constructive feedback even if it sounds not

I garuntee each run a dungeon gets easyer to tank as you get to know it.Â

I say all that but I hate the lvl 50 DF dungeons as tank, for the bad mouths of others.

Kage · **02-05-2014, 01:40 PM**

On another note of those you listed, Ultima HM I thought would be the hardest amongst Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda... in my run I thought it was easy. Then again as DPS I just had to run around making sure I took as little damage as possible while exploding orbs and taking down magitek bits. The only thing I know for this fight for tanks is that they need to swap because Ultima stacks something on them.

Steel Wolf · **02-05-2014, 02:18 PM**

...uguuuuu....

*hugs the whole damned thread*

You guys are the best.Â Seriously.Â ;-;

Ilwe'ran · **02-07-2014, 10:19 AM**

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