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å²¡æœ¬ã€€ç§€æ¨¹ · **07-06-2014, 05:25 AM**

Simply put I believe this is perfectly fine. A good RPer does not always dictate their RP by their class and will sometimes ignore their class entirely and RP their character how they would be RPed. Didn't I read that someone on a guide to RPing on these forums?Â
Ahh yeah, RP handbook. A Heavy RPer might: choose to define their character purely through their story, perhaps even ignoring their in-game class all together.Â

In this case we have a developed RPer who is using the story and attempting use of gray areas in the lore and strictly avoiding that that breaks it. So I see absolutely no reason as to why there would be a problem with it unless someone else wanted to dislike it simply because it is labeled blue mage. And had she not used the label blue mage and simply explained her logical thinking within the grey area of the lore I bet most people would not have a problem with it. Even now it seems that not that many people mind, I mean we have a pretty cool and accepting community.

Regarding the possibility of a blue mage appearing and making the lore difficult to use concerning usage of blue mage tactics. I believe that is a Possibility but even if it were done it could be worked around. In this case the girl has given up even being considered the class just to use a sword which shares some of the classes abilities and the classes abilities are possible to be replicated with enough lore know how and creativity.Â

I already talked with her earlier about this but my suggestion for one way this could work is that because Crystals are so magically adept. In creating magical energy and storing it and expelling it into power if you have the right tools, then it is possible that her sword could have strong crystals on it that are enchanted to somehow better absorb the Aetherical abilities of what they come into contact with. You could connect the blade to the crystals and should they want to steal a spell they would just have to come into contact with it and use their own magic to harness the aether into one of the crystals. Then they can release the spell at any time they desire to. Officially allowing them to steal spells and reuse them in a logical manner. I do not even see how it could be considered all that overpowered. It would be more difficult to control then using magic by hand and she is limited only to what she steals from. The abilities would probably drain the crystals too and could only be used a limited number of times before that particular crystal would need recharging.

But it is a really cool concept and if that is what she wants to do it is possible and should be encouraged to do because it is how she wants to play her character and it makes her different. *GASP* But people can't be special and different. Well not everyone likes playing average joes, and those that do probably have different definitions for average joe than the next average joe which would classify them as different anyway. (Sorry not a big fan of people trying to be NORMAL. Normal is boring) Anywho, you all probably already know these things I am just trying to reassure the Author here. As I said you all are a accepting community. Anything that struggles lore wise we can help her fix and maybe one day we can enjoy RPing with this awesome character she creates out of it.

Erik Mynhier · **07-06-2014, 07:07 AM**

(07-06-2014, 05:25 AM)å²¡æœ¬ã€€ç§€æ¨¹ Wrote: Simply put I believe this is perfectly fine. A good RPer does not always dictate their RP by their class and will sometimes ignore their class entirely and RP their character how they would be RPed. Didn't I read that someone on a guide to RPing on these forums?Â
Ahh yeah, RP handbook. A Heavy RPer might: choose to define their character purely through their story, perhaps even ignoring their in-game class all together.Â

In this case we have a developed RPer who is using the story and attempting use of gray areas in the lore and strictly avoiding that that breaks it. So I see absolutely no reason as to why there would be a problem with it unless someone else wanted to dislike it simply because it is labeled blue mage. And had she not used the label blue mage and simply explained her logical thinking within the grey area of the lore I bet most people would not have a problem with it. Even now it seems that not that many people mind, I mean we have a pretty cool and accepting community.

Regarding the possibility of a blue mage appearing and making the lore difficult to use concerning usage of blue mage tactics. I believe that is a Possibility but even if it were done it could be worked around. In this case the girl has given up even being considered the class just to use a sword which shares some of the classes abilities and the classes abilities are possible to be replicated with enough lore know how and creativity.Â

I already talked with her earlier about this but my suggestion for one way this could work is that because Crystals are so magically adept. In creating magical energy and storing it and expelling it into power if you have the right tools, then it is possible that her sword could have strong crystals on it that are enchanted to somehow better absorb the Aetherical abilities of what they come into contact with. You could connect the blade to the crystals and should they want to steal a spell they would just have to come into contact with it and use their own magic to harness the aether into one of the crystals. Then they can release the spell at any time they desire to. Officially allowing them to steal spells and reuse them in a logical manner. I do not even see how it could be considered all that overpowered. It would be more difficult to control then using magic by hand and she is limited only to what she steals from. The abilities would probably drain the crystals too and could only be used a limited number of times before that particular crystal would need recharging.

But it is a really cool concept and if that is what she wants to do it is possible and should be encouraged to do because it is how she wants to play her character and it makes her different. *GASP* But people can't be special and different. Well not everyone likes playing average joes, and those that do probably have different definitions for average joe than the next average joe which would classify them as different anyway. (Sorry not a big fan of people trying to be NORMAL. Normal is boring) Anywho, you all probably already know these things I am just trying to reassure the Author here. As I said you all are a accepting community. Anything that struggles lore wise we can help her fix and maybe one day we can enjoy RPing with this awesome character she creates out of it.

This post 1000 percent. Every rper who plays a dragoon or white mage does this, just in reverse. And true also to not having to be an avarage joe. Just like real life, we are all special, some people have a sharp fear that be special will automatically make you their boss or something so they react out of fear.

Ciel · **07-06-2014, 08:57 AM**

Your character concept isn't necessarily how you play it day to day.Â As someone else said, let story define the character.Â In the FC I'm with, there are a lot of very interesting people who, in terms of mechanics, are Black Mages, Dragoons, etc, but they call themselves by other titles - witch/voidcaller, slayer, etc.Â

The person who calls her character a witch/voidcaller uses the standard black magic spells, alchemy, and uses a beady eye minion as her pet, and I assume might use an ahriman mount though I haven't seen it, myself.Â Technically, she's still a Black Mage, but for the sake of character background and development, she's done a fine job of rolling all these pieces into one nice, neat package who's fun to interact with.

On the other hand, Voidcallers are canon, you just don't typically see it outside of some of the enemies you fight, such as in AK.Â Doesn't mean someone else wouldn't have access to it in some fashion.

In 1.0, Urianger summoned monster familiars (raptors, etc).Â I believe he's more or less considered an Arcanist, but none of the current Arcanist abilities summon monsters.Â My guess is they have plans for this somewhere down the road for a beastmaster-type class, which is why we don't see it now.Â Still, it exists, and if someone could find a way to make it look good in RP, I'd welcome it.

So if anyone has ideas which play with lore or poke those gray areas, I say go for it, and I'd be glad to act as a sounding board to bounce those ideas off of.Â If Blue Mage becomes an actual thing in later expansions, that just gives the player something to play with as far as ICly refining their skills.Â Retcon only really happens if SE looks at it and goes "Nope, that can't happen."

Yangh · **07-06-2014, 10:26 AM**

Yikes! I'm very happy that everyone is so accepting if this idea!

I've thought about so little nuisances here an there for idea itself involving the sword... all secrets though!

I think I will go ahead with this idea and work into my character nicely... the draw of playing a class even remotely close to Blue Mage is too strong!!

I thank you all for the support...

With that said... Monster Skills! Thought?!

Obviously Cocoon, White Wind and Death Scissor are on my list as they're quite iconic. I'd like to find some balanced and FF14 related attacks that fit the profile.

Sounsyy · **07-06-2014, 11:21 AM**

(07-06-2014, 10:26 AM)Yangh Wrote: With that said... Monster Skills! Thought?!

Bad breath??!?!? ;P Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I just wanted to say I like what how you're going about the whole Blue Mage thing mechanics wise. Normally I shudder at Red/Blue Mage threads because XIV lore has completely spit in the face of Red Mage ever being a thing and the Armoury System pretty much laughs at the XI incarnation of Blue Mage. Which is sad, because I enjoy those classes. I still bet we're going to see Blue Mage in XIV, I just don't think it'll be with a sword. Personally hoping for whip, like Quistis in VIII.

That aside, I like the whole crystals trapping monster aether and abilities and the like. Seems totally reasonable lore wise and it's not totally weird like a raptor breaths fire on you and suddenly you magically learn to do it right back. Speaking of abilities...

Breath attacks are pretty big in XIV and have always been a Blue Mage favorite of mine. Got a good variety to pick from: Paralyze Breath from Ziz, Fiery Breath from Raptors, Cursed Voice from Melusine.... (lol jk) Bad Breath from Morbols.

We don't really have crawlers in XIV yet, so I don't know what would do cocoon? We have crabs though so Metallic Body is an option.

I'm not sure what the healing spell the Wamouras use in Amdapor, but could call that White Wind? For some other classic abilities that XIV mobs use, there's Screwdriver, Self Destruct, Cursed Sphere, Goblin Rush, Jettatura, Body Slam, Leafstorm, and Mind Blast. (There's Final Sting but figured that'd be hard to RP. Death Scissors would be cool if you said it came from the giant crabs? Since we don't have scorpions in game yet.)

Hope this helps! ^^

TheLastCandle · **07-06-2014, 12:20 PM**

(07-06-2014, 04:07 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Am I the only one who isn't comfortable with people RPing classes that don't exist?

I mean we just don't know what SE is going to do. Look at Thief, if a bunch of people who decided to rp it before it was announced, they'd be SoL now because SE has come in and said Thief wouldn't work lore wise so they changed it to rogue and all rogues turn into Ninja. That's a lot of retconning.

I am slightly flying off on a tangent here, but it kind of sounds like you're focusing a little too much on the name of the class. A thief is someone who steals. There are/have been people roleplaying themselves as thieves; none of them are "SoL" now, any more than someone using the Gladiator class to portray a sword-wielding Templar from Ishgard. It's bizarre, in my opinion, to think that everyone who knows how to use a sword absolutely has to have been trained at the Ul'dahn Gladiator's Guild. So it is with Rogue: not every character in RP is going to have learned their cloak and dagger skills at the Lominsan Rogue's Guild.

As for Blue Mage, that's an iffy one. I'd say go for it, with the understanding that saying "this is Blue Magic; this is the only way it's done" and developing a very detailed history for its usage is probably not a very good idea for reasons already given. Historically, it has always has been heavily reliant on mechanics, and those tend to differ from game to game. As a classic FF job, there's every possibility that it'll be implemented at some point in ARR's lifetime. My advice is to leave yourself some breathing room for that possibility.

For example: perhaps your character found a vague reference of a High Allagan magus who styled himself a "Blue Mage" using spells learned from monsters. So your character set out to research how such a thing was possible, and found "a" method of doing so - not necessarily "the" method the Blue Mage of old used - and decided to style herself as such.

Edit: Appearance-wise, the only game in which Blue Mage had outright Arab-inspired garb has been FFXI. They don't really have a specific aesthetic. That being said, I see no reason why your specific character shouldn't.

Yangh · **07-06-2014, 12:28 PM**

Absolutely TheLastCandle.

The art she will use is by no means a true Blue Mage. It is an extremely watered down version of it much like White Mage and Conjurer... except the strength level gap between the two is MUCH larger.

I've made sure not to really fill in too many of the blanks in accordance to the lore itself. My character literally found this scimitar in a second / third hand weapons shop, buried at the bottom of a pile so to speak.

It had script engraved onto the flat of the blade which was in her native tongue of Akshar (Arabic / Hebrew) that to her knowledge is only spoken by her VERY secretive clan and is considered a dead language. There are a few people (One or two) that she's met that have knowledge of this language.

She bought it naturally because of the connection and it just so happens that this blade is special in regards to Blue-type magic... but by no means is it a true Blue Mage.

As for spells? I think Bad Breath is too strong of a skill to give to a watered down version of Blue Mage (Which i've called Warrior of the Blue Sand in her native tongue for story purposes). Perhaps a breath skill with much less potency would be better? Like a paralyze or poison... but not both! xD

I think Metalic body over Cocoon is a good idea also and I can't wait to learn Death Scissor from The Cancer crab FATE! That sounds like a blast!!

ArmachiA · **07-06-2014, 03:13 PM**

(07-06-2014, 12:20 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:
(07-06-2014, 04:07 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Am I the only one who isn't comfortable with people RPing classes that don't exist?

I mean we just don't know what SE is going to do. Look at Thief, if a bunch of people who decided to rp it before it was announced, they'd be SoL now because SE has come in and said Thief wouldn't work lore wise so they changed it to rogue and all rogues turn into Ninja. That's a lot of retconning.

I am slightly flying off on a tangent here, but it kind of sounds like you're focusing a little too much on the name of the class. A thief is someone who steals. There are/have been people roleplaying themselves as thieves; none of them are "SoL" now, any more than someone using the Gladiator class to portray a sword-wielding Templar from Ishgard. It's bizarre, in my opinion, to think that everyone who knows how to use a sword absolutely has to have been trained at the Ul'dahn Gladiator's Guild. So it is with Rogue: not every character in RP is going to have learned their cloak and dagger skills at the Lominsan Rogue's Guild.

As for Blue Mage, that's an iffy one. I'd say go for it, with the understanding that saying "this is Blue Magic; this is the only way it's done" and developing a very detailed history for its usage is probably not a very good idea for reasons already given. Historically, it has always has been heavily reliant on mechanics, and those tend to differ from game to game. As a classic FF job, there's every possibility that it'll be implemented at some point in ARR's lifetime. My advice is to leave yourself some breathing room for that possibility.

For example: perhaps your character found a vague reference of a High Allagan magus who styled himself a "Blue Mage" using spells learned from monsters. So your character set out to research how such a thing was possible, and found "a" method of doing so - not necessarily "the" method the Blue Mage of old used - and decided to style herself as such.

Edit: Appearance-wise, the only game in which Blue Mage had outright Arab-inspired garb has been FFXI. They don't really have a specific aesthetic. That being said, I see no reason why your specific character shouldn't.

This is actually more in line with what I'm trying to convey.

Let's say, for arguments sake, SCH came out later than launch and a few people started RPing their version of SCH - which would most likely be the version from FFXI. If you played FFXI you know SCH from that game and SCH from this game are so different, it would be like you were playing a completely different class. No faeries (Easy enough retcon, no plenty of people who rp SCH without the faery), The ability to switch between White and Black magic (completely impossible for a SCH to do here, since they use Arcanist), both healers and damage dealers but not at the same time - having to switch to Light Arts or Dark Arts.

It's a completely different class then the one we got in FFXIV.

God, I'm actually trying to imagine what people would have said Summoner was if it hadn't been released and I'm pretty sure no one would have gotten that right. Just a bunch of rpers walking around with full sized Garuda's.

I'm not telling people not to do it, I just think it's risky. Tread carefully.

Yangh · **07-06-2014, 03:34 PM**

I understand that line of thinking which is exactly why the only common traits it has with FF11 itself is the weapon and the Blue Magic. Everything else draws from FF14's lore. Should Blue mage become released in the future? Then I can work towards becoming one ICly as she is NOT one at all.

She's simply a weakened and watered down derivative.

Val · **07-06-2014, 03:36 PM**

(07-06-2014, 03:13 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: Let's say, for arguments sake, SCH came out later than launch and a few people started RPing their version of SCH - which would most likely be the version from FFXI. If you played FFXI you know SCH from that game and SCH from this game are so different, it would be like you were playing a completely different class. No faeries (Easy enough retcon, no plenty of people who rp SCH without the faery), The ability to switch between White and Black magic (completely impossible for a SCH to do here, since they use Arcanist), both healers and damage dealers but not at the same time - having to switch to Light Arts or Dark Arts.

It's a completely different class then the one we got in FFXIV.

God, I'm actually trying to imagine what Â people would have said Summoner was if it hadn't been released and I'm pretty sure no one would have gotten that right. Just a bunch of rpers walking around with full sized Garuda's.

I'm not telling people not to do it, I just think it's risky. Tread carefully.

But you're still letting the game and its mechanics dictate what you can and can't do, if I'm reading correctly. Why can't a "scholar" use white and black magic? Just because the class itself in the game is unable to do so doesn't mean that they can't. One could argue that some scholar spells are even black magic oriented, such as their drain ability and a couple of others.

ArmachiA · **07-06-2014, 04:05 PM**

Arcanist magic is unaspected, it doesn't have black or white properties. Scholar in the game is based off Arcanist (Or, what's probably more accurate, given the lore of the game Arcanist is based off Scholar teachings). If you're playing a character who can switch between White and Black magic at will, you aren't playing a Scholar in FFXIV's lore. And you can say "then I'm something else" but to be that kinda spits in the face of the lore.

If you can be whatever you want, then I can be Superman. Why play RP in a universe with boundaries if you just completely disregard the lore to be whatever you want? The fun is the boundaries, not running around doing whatever you want.

I'm not saying OP is doing that, however. Blue Mage is a Final Fantasy staple so it's not like she's saying "I want to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Blue Mage will probably (maybe...) be around eventually and exists within the parameters of Final Fantasy.

I think what she's doing sounds fine, generally, I'm just telling her to be careful. There's a slippery slope between "I'm vaguely Blue Mage" and "My people is the inventor of blue mage and I'm gonna teach EVERYBODY cuz I'm the only one who knows it and here are the RULES."

I think the OP isn't crossing that line, I'm just discussing in generalities. I'm personally not comfortable with it, myself.

Yangh · **07-06-2014, 04:11 PM**

(07-06-2014, 04:05 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: Arcanist magic is unaspected, it doesn't have black or white properties. Scholar in the game is based off Arcanist (Or, what's probably more accurate, given the lore of the game Arcanist is based off Scholar teachings). If you're playing a character who can switch between White and Black magic at will, you aren't playing a Scholar in FFXIV's lore. And you can say "then I'm something else" but to be that kinda spits in the face of the lore.

If you can be whatever you want, then I can be Superman. Why play RP in a universe Â with boundaries if you just completely disregard the lore to be whatever you want? The fun is the boundaries, not running around doing whatever you want.

I'm not saying OP is doing that, however. Blue Mage is a Final Fantasy staple so it's not like she's saying "I want to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Blue Mage will probably (maybe...) be around eventually and exists within the parameters of Final Fantasy.

I think what she's doing sounds fine, generally, I'm just telling her to be careful. There's a slippery slope between "I'm vaguely Blue Mage" and "My people is the inventor of blue mage and I'm gonna teach EVERYBODY cuz I'm the only one who knows it and here are the RULES."

I think the OP isn't crossing that line, I'm just discussing in generalities. I'm personally not comfortable with it, myself.

I thank you for your honest and constructive opinion. This is why I LOVE this community, we can discuss grey area topics without descending into some silly flame war.

Please keep this going! Even if you don't agree with it I want to hear all opinions and I'd like to hear of some suggestions for spells also. As many as you are able.

ArmachiA · **07-06-2014, 04:22 PM**

Yeah I don't mean it harshly at all. I appreciate you not going immediately on the defensive Smile

Val · **07-06-2014, 04:25 PM**

(07-06-2014, 04:05 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: Arcanist magic is unaspected, it doesn't have black or white properties. Scholar in the game is based off Arcanist (Or, what's probably more accurate, given the lore of the game Arcanist is based off Scholar teachings). If you're playing a character who can switch between White and Black magic at will, you aren't playing a Scholar in FFXIV's lore. And you can say "then I'm something else" but to be that kinda spits in the face of the lore.

If you can be whatever you want, then I can be Superman. Why play RP in a universe Â with boundaries if you just completely disregard the lore to be whatever you want? The fun is the boundaries, not running around doing whatever you want.

I'm not saying OP is doing that, however. Blue Mage is a Final Fantasy staple so it's not like she's saying "I want to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Blue Mage will probably (maybe...) be around eventually and exists within the parameters of Final Fantasy.

I think what she's doing sounds fine, generally, I'm just telling her to be careful. There's a slippery slope between "I'm vaguely Blue Mage" and "My people is the inventor of blue mage and I'm gonna teach EVERYBODY cuz I'm the only one who knows it and here are the RULES."

I think the OP isn't crossing that line, I'm just discussing in generalities. I'm personally not comfortable with it, myself.

Arcanist magic /is/ unaspected, correct. But you're still letting the class restrictions dictate what the person/character themselves can and can't do. Why a person can't dabble a little in that of Arcanist and also in that of black magic, I still don't quite understand =)

ArmachiA · **07-06-2014, 04:39 PM**

in theory you can be somebody who knows Conjury and Thaumaturgy (White and Black magic is a different monster, since with white magic you need to be able to access the Succor and the Elementals are currently being bitchy about that and Black magic is the void? I'm not 100% on BLM lore here) but in FFXIV you wouldn't be a SCHOLAR. I'm talking about the jobs themselves, not just "some guy who wields a sword" (Which ironically is the name of things in Japanese. "Gladiator" is actually just "Sword User" in Japanese so I believe that was their intent to be vague). She wants to be a BLUE MAGE not some vague mage in the corner, meaning you need specific context for BLUE MAGE.

There's a difference between saying your a Sword User and saying your a Paladin. We're talking about very specific, Final Fantasy jobs within the FFXIV lore. Which have their own abilities, their own training regimens, and their own lore that deserve to be respected.

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