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Verad · **07-21-2014, 04:22 PM**

As far as the actual thread topic, choosing between a plutocratic oligarchy in the hands of the Syndicate and a monarchy, however benign in the form of the current Sultana, just seems like choosing different flavors of poison. That's purely from an OOC perspective though.

Aduu Avagnar · **07-21-2014, 04:27 PM**

(07-21-2014, 03:35 PM)Melkire Wrote: Lolorito is a corrupt, scheming, self-interested scumbag that furthers his own well-being at the explicit expense of others' ... and this is, to the extent of my knowledge, supported by the MSQ.Â

There. I said it. I'm out.

This

we can uhm and ah all we want about the whys and wherefores, but all evidence provided by cutscenes and quests paints this picture.

Kage · **07-21-2014, 04:38 PM**

I haven't had the time, but can you point explicitly to what ends and what cutscenes etc you are referring to?

For example I know what Telediji has done, so I definitely name him.

But I don't remember Lolorito-specifics except that he's well spoken against the Domans being there.

I don't remember him being named in Sultansworn aka Paladin Questline...?

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-21-2014, 04:45 PM**

Basically I think most of the negative words about Lorilito comes from ardent royalists, however since it's basically a political struggle, you can't really trust everything they say. I also can't think of anything specific Lorilito is supposed to have done. "Not helping people as much as you can" isn't really an evil act, or corrupt. Especially if their not your citizens, and you don't have a responsibility to protect them.

Erik Mynhier · **07-21-2014, 05:54 PM**

Two things.

1. Hey Kale, been like forever.

2.

Show Content

Aduu Avagnar · **07-21-2014, 06:06 PM**

(07-21-2014, 04:38 PM)ExKage Wrote: I haven't had the time, but can you point explicitly to what ends and what cutscenes etc you are referring to?

For example I know what Telediji has done, so I definitely name him.

But I don't remember Lolorito-specifics except that he's well spoken against the Domans being there.

I don't remember him being named in Sultansworn aka Paladin Questline...?

The quest in the Ul'dah story line involving Wystan, someone who aimed to increase their lot, Lolorito sent his Brass Blades to kill him. In cutscene in the inn room, when the Ascian summons the golem, one of the Brass Blades states:

'This ain't part o' the plan! Bloody hells, does Lord Lolorito mean to kill us too!?' before they run off.

The text relating to this states:

Wystan now understands that he has been marked for death by Lord Lolorito. The ore vein, the Brass Blades, and the golem all appear to have been part of the trap. The merchant promises to do his utmost to hide your involvement, but he also suggests you seek the counsel of Mistress Momodi at the Quicksand, in case Lolorito's spies are already aware of your actions.

From this we can ascertain the following. Lolorito is not above killing people, simply because they foil his plans, or even because they are trying to make themselves rich, seeming a case of eliminating the pool of potential rivals, before they can become one.

that is the only one I can revisit, but there is another quest around the Horizon area, I will update this with the name of the lalafel involved, which again states iirc that Lolorito himself encourages the corruption.

Aerghwab · **07-21-2014, 06:09 PM**

In 1.0, it was generally implied that Lolorito was involved with the murder of Niellefresne, who was with the Path of the Twelve/Scions. Also, I recall it being stated that Lolorito was selling arms and such to Garlemald. You don't have to look very hard to find reasons to dislike Lolorito. I'll stop short of saying "evil," but he's a pretty uncool individual.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-21-2014, 06:17 PM**

(07-21-2014, 05:54 PM)Erik Mynhier Wrote: Two things.

1. Hey Kale, been like forever.

2.

Show Content

SpoilerDOWN WITH THE SYNDICATE! ALL HAIL OUR LORD AND SOVEREIGN SULTANA NANOMO! /radical monarchist rant

Um just gotta call this out.

Red Wings HQ, a single portrait of our glorious leader.

[Image: nmU6Lp1.jpg]

Kage and Nat's house, three times the patriotism.

[Image: yLPjxXe.jpg]

Do you even royalist bro.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-21-2014, 06:19 PM**

(07-21-2014, 06:06 PM)Nakoli Chalahko Wrote:
(07-21-2014, 04:38 PM)ExKage Wrote: I haven't had the time, but can you point explicitly to what ends and what cutscenes etc you are referring to?

For example I know what Telediji has done, so I definitely name him.

But I don't remember Lolorito-specifics except that he's well spoken against the Domans being there.

I don't remember him being named in Sultansworn aka Paladin Questline...?
The quest in the Ul'dah story line involving Wystan, someone who aimed to increase their lot, Lolorito sent his Brass Blades to kill him. In cutscene in the inn room, when the Ascian summons the golem, one of the Brass Blades states:

'This ain't part o' the plan! Bloody hells, does Lord Lolorito mean to kill us too!?' before they run off.

The text relating to this states:

Wystan now understands that he has been marked for death by Lord Lolorito. The ore vein, the Brass Blades, and the golem all appear to have been part of the trap. The merchant promises to do his utmost to hide your involvement, but he also suggests you seek the counsel of Mistress Momodi at the Quicksand, in case Lolorito's spies are already aware of your actions.

From this we can ascertain the following. Lolorito is not above killing people, simply because they foil his plans, or even because they are trying to make themselves rich, seeming a case of eliminating the pool of potential rivals, before they can become one.

that is the only one I can revisit, but there is another quest around the Horizon area, I will update this with the name of the lalafel involved, which again states iirc that Lolorito himself encourages the corruption.

This is pretty enlightening, thanks for the info.

Aduu Avagnar · **07-21-2014, 06:20 PM**

(07-21-2014, 06:09 PM)Aerghwab Wrote: In 1.0, it was generally implied that Lolorito was involved with the murder of Niellefresne, who was with the Path of the Twelve/Scions. Also, I recall it being stated that Lolorito was selling Garlemald arms. You don't have to look very hard to find reasons to dislike Lolorito. I'll stop short of saying "evil," but he's a pretty uncool individual.

the thing to remember about evil in the D&D sense, is that it is not nescesarily moustache twirling villainy.

I quote the following:

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TV TropesÂ presents a list of various types of lawful evil.

All of these sources state that evil, when associated with the D&D alignment system, is not nescesarily the moustache twirling villain, they can simply be the person who uses the rules to do what he can publicly, whilst doing what they can get away with in private.

Erik Mynhier · **07-21-2014, 06:28 PM**

(07-21-2014, 06:17 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-21-2014, 05:54 PM)Erik Mynhier Wrote: Two things.

1. Hey Kale, been like forever.

2.

Show Content

SpoilerDOWN WITH THE SYNDICATE! ALL HAIL OUR LORD AND SOVEREIGN SULTANA NANOMO! /radical monarchist rant

Um just gotta call this out.

Red Wings HQ, a single portrait of our glorious leader.

Kage and Nat's house, three times the patriotism.

Do you even royalist bro.

Aerghwab · **07-21-2014, 06:31 PM**

I've played a ton of D&D, so none of that is news to me, really. If I get into all of the qualms I have with D&D's alignment system, not only will it be horribly off-topic, but it'll take all night. So instead, I'll just say that I agree that if Eorzea were a D&D setting, he's probably neutral evil given what we've seen/heard.

That doesn't necessarily preclude a lawful neutral organization being in service to him, though, since he is in a position of authority.

LiadansWhisper · **07-21-2014, 06:43 PM**

(07-21-2014, 06:31 PM)Aerghwab Wrote: I've played a ton of D&D, so none of that is news to me, really. If I get into all of the qualms I have with D&D's alignment system, not only will it be horribly off-topic, but it'll take all night. So instead, I'll just say that I agree that if Eorzea were a D&D setting, he's probably neutral evil given what we've seen/heard.

That doesn't necessarily preclude a lawful neutral organization being in service to him, though, since he is in a position of authority.

That's very true! Â And the really excellent evil authority figures are well able to manipulate good organizations without driving them away.

Aduu Avagnar · **07-21-2014, 06:46 PM**

(07-21-2014, 06:31 PM)Aerghwab Wrote: I've played a ton of D&D, so none of that is news to me, really. If I get into all of the qualms I have with D&D's alignment system, not only will it be horribly off-topic, but it'll take all night. So instead, I'll just say that I agree that if Eorzea were a D&D setting, he's probably neutral evil given what we've seen/heard.

That doesn't necessarily preclude a lawful neutral organization being in service to him, though, since he is in a position of authority.

oh indeed not, as I made clear in a previous post it will be interesting to see such an organisation in service to such a person, and how they may react to certain tasks set to them.

Kage · **07-21-2014, 07:18 PM**

Question: I think it was pretty evident that the way Raubahn won his way into the Syndicate is by winning... and it seemed pretty implied? if not outright said that Raubahn killed in order to do it. I mean one page says he slay the former owner of one of his blades.

But it seemed like killed to get into the Syndicate to back Momodi up.Â

... what does that make Raubahn?

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Syndicate 'Lawful Neutral' group (some 2.3 story spoilers)

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