(02-22-2015, 10:10 PM)sforze Wrote:(02-22-2015, 05:40 PM)Gaspard Wrote:(02-22-2015, 04:59 PM)Presidio Wrote: You say "we can all take steps to avoid it" but the steps being suggested are put entirely on the excluded person. That's what I'm getting at. Someone shows up and says "I have a problem" and a thousand people offer "well have you tried this?"
If the community was as inclusive as it sees itself then it wouldn't be "have you tried this" and would instead be "okay here's how we're going to all help solve this problem."
Instead it's been "this is what you should do" followed by pages of people explaining why the person might've been ignored from their perspective.
None of this helps the person much, it just puts the onus on them to help themself.
[snip]
I guess, you could say the moral of my post is;
You cannot assume a position of victimization and saying that 'the others are at fault' for not including you, If they have roleplay wherein you have none. They're clearly doing something right, something you're missing. Now you have a thread full of truly helpful input that could, if you took it as such, help you find exactly what you are looking for, yet you deny this as help, infact, you slam it as criticism.
Neither myself nor Presidio are new to RP. I've run successful communities before for other games, which is part of what another here said about 'culture shock' and adapting. If I'm having issues as someone who has done well for themselves before, I can't imagine what completely new RPers are feeling if they're struggling, too. That should be a red flag, not a cue to yell 'bootstrap it harder, everyone else is doing it right and you're wrong'. I guess that's the part of your post that really stands out to me in a very, very negative way.
Boiling it down to "just take the advice and you'll get what you want" and "stop being a victim" isn't just ignorant of the conversation that's been happening, it's frankly incorrect based on the experience I've written about in this thread, as well as being kind of rude/dismissive, even if you don't intend it to be. I've taken much of the advice that's been offered and I still came in to make this post to hopefully start a conversation on why it's still happening and try to target any possibilities of doing better. By nature, that shows that your own advice is moot.
I really hope you reconsider what you're saying.
I wouldn't truly call it ignorant on my behalf, at most I may've missinterpreted your words. To me, it sounded akin to a refusal to take said advice, based on the sense that it puts the 'onus' as if you've reffered to it on the struggling person, akin to as if one was to be blamed for such predicament. (Which 'is' a general theme recurring in this topic. That Roleplayers that are in a Roleplay 'must' include others least the risk appearing as jerks, even if the RP, scenery, or the likes don't fit it). Moreso, my post was infact a generalized reply to those that took such stance, not to you specifically posing as a victim. Atleast that what it was meant for. So yes, in that regard, I may've indeed worded it wrong. And a good part of said points are invalid if indeed you did take said suggestions into consideration and tried them, to no avail.
However, IF that is true, then I'm truly at a loss how such thing is possible actually. Following what others wrote here as suggestions, and doing what I do (and described in my post), I find myself currently drowning in roleplay. So perhaps I simply can't see / don't see this struggle, or don't understand how it can be as dire as described.
![[Image: afvXOt2.png]](http://i.imgur.com/afvXOt2.png)
