(04-17-2015, 02:46 PM)Aya Wrote: I definitely agree that Ishgard does provide an in for those who do not meet the usual requirements to earn a position in the stratified hierarchy, in the military in particular, and likely through earning favor within an existing Elezen House.
In a sense their religious nature, and the common cause of the war against the Dravanians, will serve as a crucible in which racist tendencies are tested and broken down. But it does not take much to infer that in a society where power is held firmly in the hands of a racial and class elite, that they view the rest of their people through a racist lens. How far does this racist lens percolate down? That's hard to say - does the common Elezen street vendor find more in common with his Elezen House Lords or with the Hyur down the street? There's really no way to conjecture.
What I think is more obvious is that non-Elezen have a harder time earning their place in this society, and are met with an eye of greater judgement from Elezen officialdom. I am not suggesting that this is strictly the case, only that it is a natural and logical inference from the things that we do know about Ishgard. I think drawing the opposite conclusion would fly in the face of what we know.
Based on?
We can go around and around about this all day, honestly, but in the end you're asserting an awful lot with little-to-no information to back up anything you've said. Are some of your assertions -plausible-? ...Maybe. I don't think they are likely in the way that you are putting them, though.
For example:Â
Quote:I definitely agree that Ishgard does provide an in for those who do not meet the usual requirements to earn a position in the stratified hierarchy, in the military in particular, and likely through earning favor within an existing Elezen House.
We don't know for sure that all the houses in Ishgard are Elezen and/or that only Elezen are part of the aristocracy. What we DO know is that Elezen are the majority population, thus increasing the chances that they will reach 'station' by population density alone.
Quote:In a sense their religious nature, and the common cause of the war against the Dravanians, will serve as a crucible in which racist tendencies are tested and broken down.  But it does not take much to infer that in a society where power is held firmly in the hands of a racial and class elite, that they view the rest of their people through a racist lens. How far does this racist lens percolate down? That's hard to say - does the common Elezen street vendor find more in common with his Elezen House Lords or with the Hyur down the street? There's really no way to conjecture.
This is a romantic notion but that's all it is. There's no evidence of any cultural racism within Ishgard.
Quote:What I think is more obvious is that non-Elezen have a harder time earning their place in this society, and are met with an eye of greater judgement from Elezen officialdom. I am not suggesting that this is strictly the case, only that it is a natural and logical inference from the things that we do know about Ishgard. I think drawing the opposite conclusion would fly in the face of what we know.
It only flies in the face of what we know if we accept the very little we do know as the 'end all; be all'. Luckily that would be irrational and something that most people would avoid doing. Does your opinion that "It is likely that non-Elezen may have a harder time advancing in society" a possible and probable one? Yes, if not just from population density then from cultural examples of the Elezen seeming to be primarily the ones in positions of power. Is that evidence of racism? Still no. It MIGHT be argued that there is a class-privilege issue, though, but I won't back that horse without some more data.
Quote:Of course there isn't any evidence, if there were we wouldn't even be talking about this. The whole point is that this is a game that takes place in a lore-light world and we're just trying to fill in the gaps.
We would still have great cause to speak of it, actually. Evidence is what causes discussion to occur with actual logical debate. Without evidence you're just arguing conjecture and that ain't no way to be, mayun.
So without evidence of your cultural racism assertion I state firmly, again, that without any proof we can only assume that national/cultural racism in Ishgard is actually -not- a thing. For now.
