I am now completely confused, so correct me at any point if I'm misinterpreting anything you are saying.
There are two points you are arguing:
One: white magic is used for healing and incapable of or ineffective in causing direct harm (or perhaps any harm at all), therefore white magic is inherently good and beneficial. Because white magic is inherently good and beneficial, it cannot (or should not) be used as the "evil power" in a story. Because white magic cannot cause any harm, then narratively-speaking, evil should not use white magic. White magic being used for evil purposes doesn't make sense in a story, and a "good vs. evil" plotline makes more sense with, say, a black mage villain than a white mage villain, because there are other powers (i.e arcanima, thaumaturgy) that are capable of causing direct harm and thus should be used instead.
Counterargument: white magic, while incapable of causing direct harm, is still capable of causing indirect harm. And because it is capable of causing indirect harm, white magic is therefore not inherently good and beneficial (BUT nor is it inherently bad and harmful). And because white magic is not inherently good, then it can be used for evil purposes and still make sense within a storyline. It may not be as directly evil as blowing up hospitals with thaumaturgy, but it is still capable of performing evil acts. See: keeping an unambiguously evil person alive, keeping an innocent person alive to torment them, draining all of the aether in a localized environment (and by extension threatening the indiscriminate wrath of the Elementals).
Also, contradiction with the below point: how can a power that is inherently "good and beneficial" also be capable of destroying the world?
Two: using white magic is extremely dangerous as its abuse nearly destroyed the world. Therefore it makes no sense for a villain to use it for evil purposes or attempt to inflict direct harm with it because they risk destroying everything in the process. In addition, if a villain wishes to destroy the world, there are easier methods of doing so involving (insert: Allagans, primals, a particularly stinky cheese, etc.)
Counter: "Evil" is not limited to wanting to inflict direct harm or destroy the world. Inflicting indirect harm, or inflicting any harm in general, can be extrapolated as an evil intention. Therefore, on a purely individual basis, a good person who becomes a white mage and then turns evil for whatever reason is still capable of using their powers with evil intentions. Whether or not they would is irrelevant, what matters is that they are capable of doing so if their inclination exists.
Pretty much unrelated to my above points, but isn't this exactly the kind of thing we're talking about?
Is that not exactly what happened at the end of the Fifth Astral Era? White magic, an "inherently good and beneficial" magic, was used extensively for the sake of man's own gain. This own gain became greed and avarice. Then the Elementals retaliated by flooding the world.
Imagine if you're a white mage in the Fifth Astral Era, and you know your magic drains environmental aether, but you want to cure all of the world's diseases and ailments and rescue all the sick children with your power because you're a good person and that's a good intention. So you use your power. A lot. Unaware (or perhaps fully aware) of the harm it causes to the environment. Then the elementals flood the world and kill you and all of the innocents you were trying to preserve with your good intentions.
ANYWAY this is getting way off topic so I'll stop here, I just want to be sure we understand each other's points.
There are two points you are arguing:
(03-12-2016, 08:55 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: ...I guess I just don't understand why someone would want to use the one intrinsically good and beneficial school of magic that way when there are much easier, and more sensible schools to access.
One: white magic is used for healing and incapable of or ineffective in causing direct harm (or perhaps any harm at all), therefore white magic is inherently good and beneficial. Because white magic is inherently good and beneficial, it cannot (or should not) be used as the "evil power" in a story. Because white magic cannot cause any harm, then narratively-speaking, evil should not use white magic. White magic being used for evil purposes doesn't make sense in a story, and a "good vs. evil" plotline makes more sense with, say, a black mage villain than a white mage villain, because there are other powers (i.e arcanima, thaumaturgy) that are capable of causing direct harm and thus should be used instead.
Counterargument: white magic, while incapable of causing direct harm, is still capable of causing indirect harm. And because it is capable of causing indirect harm, white magic is therefore not inherently good and beneficial (BUT nor is it inherently bad and harmful). And because white magic is not inherently good, then it can be used for evil purposes and still make sense within a storyline. It may not be as directly evil as blowing up hospitals with thaumaturgy, but it is still capable of performing evil acts. See: keeping an unambiguously evil person alive, keeping an innocent person alive to torment them, draining all of the aether in a localized environment (and by extension threatening the indiscriminate wrath of the Elementals).
Also, contradiction with the below point: how can a power that is inherently "good and beneficial" also be capable of destroying the world?
(03-12-2016, 09:47 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: There are other ways to address this, however, without everyone wanting to weaponize the one beneficial magic in the game when it's been driven home over and over again that this is a really terrible idea and almost destroyed the world once before.
Two: using white magic is extremely dangerous as its abuse nearly destroyed the world. Therefore it makes no sense for a villain to use it for evil purposes or attempt to inflict direct harm with it because they risk destroying everything in the process. In addition, if a villain wishes to destroy the world, there are easier methods of doing so involving (insert: Allagans, primals, a particularly stinky cheese, etc.)
Counter: "Evil" is not limited to wanting to inflict direct harm or destroy the world. Inflicting indirect harm, or inflicting any harm in general, can be extrapolated as an evil intention. Therefore, on a purely individual basis, a good person who becomes a white mage and then turns evil for whatever reason is still capable of using their powers with evil intentions. Whether or not they would is irrelevant, what matters is that they are capable of doing so if their inclination exists.
(03-12-2016, 09:47 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Every heard of the "Tyranny of Good Intentions?" Now there's a narrative avenue no one ever wants to explore.
Pretty much unrelated to my above points, but isn't this exactly the kind of thing we're talking about?
Is that not exactly what happened at the end of the Fifth Astral Era? White magic, an "inherently good and beneficial" magic, was used extensively for the sake of man's own gain. This own gain became greed and avarice. Then the Elementals retaliated by flooding the world.
Imagine if you're a white mage in the Fifth Astral Era, and you know your magic drains environmental aether, but you want to cure all of the world's diseases and ailments and rescue all the sick children with your power because you're a good person and that's a good intention. So you use your power. A lot. Unaware (or perhaps fully aware) of the harm it causes to the environment. Then the elementals flood the world and kill you and all of the innocents you were trying to preserve with your good intentions.
ANYWAY this is getting way off topic so I'll stop here, I just want to be sure we understand each other's points.
