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(07-09-2013, 02:57 AM)Shuck Wrote: Yeah, ad populatum is a great way to prove a point. Except that it proves absolutely nothing. I'm not alone in my thoughts either. Does that make me right?
Anyway, your original point was that the criticisms were unfair. They aren't. They're taken from actual examples of the character in question. Your point is, therefore, rendered invalid.
Excuse me. That was nowhere near my original post. Again, you are not reading, so why debate you? My original post was, "Okay, you want to have a debate? Please let's just move this topic to a new one." Maybe this concept is hard to grasp, because mouse-clicking is such a hard task. And again, I said in this very quote, I was ready to debate you, but you just decided to get all angry and self-righteous.
Fine.
shuck Wrote:Buddy, nothing in anything I've said has even suggested that people must conform. You're making things up again. You're making up an argument that isn't there. You want to talk about debate rules? That's cool. This is a strawman fallacy.
   I don't have to consider how "squashed" you might feel in a discussion in which I disagree with your point of view. Disagreeing with you is not a personal attack, no matter how much you may wish it was (because that would lend you validity that you just kind of don't have here.) If you don't like my points? Throw up some counter-points! That's how discussions work.
   If you don't have any (which it appears as if you don't, and are unfamiliar with the rules that you're claiming to follow), then don't bother.
But again, you just come into a thread whose only purpose is to promote people posting favorites and turn it into a debate on a particular hero people choose? The whole point is that if you want to debate ONE character, please respect those that may be talking about Iron Man and don't point out faults. It's easy to criticize something you do not agree with, so far in the other thread, it is you who have gone off the rails and now, you just want to further it by turning it into a Superman debate thread? That makes no sense to me. Heck, not sure why Uther likes it either.
I don't impose on others. Yeah, these are just "words" that one can gloss over, but not everyone who posts there may care to read about a Superman debate. This is like if you and I stand up in a cafeteria and start loudly debating across the room about politics. Sure, you and I are free to say what we want, but what about the audience? Some may care, others will not. So, you tell them to leave the cafeteria, after they paid for the food? "Lump it or leave it"? No consideration for others?
Again, it's just one mouse click away; this is not asking you to climb Mt. Everest.
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shuck Wrote:Â Â Â Here's how I know you didn't read it: It actually contains a tie-in to a seconding of a favorite comic book hero of mine. That's what we call a cohesive argument. We address the issue being discussed currently (in this case, directly speaking Uther on the matter of Superman), and we latch that right onto the main point of the post.
First, I know you do not understand, "Jack" and continue to belittle me. Sad, but fair enough.
Here is what you do not seem to realize.
On that other thread, you quoted Uther's one sentence. Later on, in that other thread you complained about "you having a discussion with a guildie" and that a third party comes in and messes that up.
What you seem to fail to realize is that quote and your response was directed at me, word for word.
Uther already gave his reasons above. He replied that he agreed to my post in that one sentence. You DID NOT reply to his post, you replied to mine (you simply snipped the rest and quoted his one sentence reply). So your inability to see that makes me wonder why you continue to feign innocence. I am big enough to realize, in your zeal, you probably were mistaken, but you do not seem to be capable of that in this instance. And look, I didn't mind to reply later on: I was thinking of making a separate thread for it, but you've raised such a big stink over this, I don't feel like it is worth the hassle.
shuck Wrote:Â Â You ignored that, opting instead to feign some kind of exasperation with the very idea that someone doesn't agree with you about a fictional alien from a comic book. Frankly, I don't know why you, or anyone would waste their time and energy on thumbing their nose at a civil discussion with a point/counter-point style of presentation, but you are, evidently, far too experienced and practiced at this here internet for any of us to comprehend what you're getting at (Spoiler: It's nothing. You've got nothing.)
And again, you see your side, I see you jumping in with:
shuck Wrote:FINALLY! I have someone to argue about Superman with!
And then lots of points that contradict each other.
Someone to "Argue" with. Not "Debate" with. Not a "Oh, as much as I see your opinion, I disagree because..."
It is you who have nothing to stand on and now you talk so "high" when your entrance was less than desirable. I saw no civil discussion at that point and frankly. while you may have "cleaned up" with your continuation with Uther, you are still missing the point. And that point is not Superman debate, it is your responses immediately afterward, which seem to be screaming and cussing.
So now you are just gonna spam your discussion and to hell with your fellow posters? That's fine. Not my style to impose my will on others, but it seems to be yours, even if you say you hate that trait in Superman.
shuck Wrote:Â Â Â I can only wonder how it is someone arrives at the idea that discussion of any sort, on a forum, that isn't explicitly about the topic proposed in the title (no matter how closely related it may be) is not to be tolerated in a thread.
   Why can't people ask "why"? Why don't you want them to ask "why"? Why does it appear as if you can't handle the very notion that someone would ask "why"?
   Why does it appear as if you can't handle someone disagreeing with you?
   Hell, while we're at it, why don't you adhere to the rules of debate and discussion?
I already discussed this in my above reply and even in this message. It is not the "Why can't I?" but, "Why can't you create another thread?" As Bea below said, she did not start that thread to be a discussion and it is simply better to create another thread. Should I be talking about nu-52 dealings or how I don't agree with Quesada's decisions in that thread? Again, I know human nature: such things happen and I have no qualms against it, but even between you and Uther in the other thread, it's become something off-topic and really, for you guys, people may gloss over it anyway because they don't care for Superman (as Bea states). I just don't wish to impose that on others. I choose to be unselfish and think of others. Maybe that is beyond you and you have not realized that. Prove me wrong? So far, you haven't.
shuck Wrote:Â Â Â Also, you haven't actually pointed out any hypocrisy (I dare you to do it), which makes this accusation baseless. These aren't assumptions, as I'm drawing from the events as they happened, so that accusation is baseless. An epitaph is a poem written in memory of the deceased, or an etching on a tombstone, so that's just straight-up wrong, and it'd only take you like a second to google the words you're attempting to use in order to appear as if you've got a grasp on what it is you're saying (you don't).
I haven't pointed out any counter-points because you started this "baseless accusation" in both threads. All I did was sigh and say you will possibly disagree, but I can see this going on for pages. It is you who chose not to understand and whine about a new thread starting up when...hey...just a mouse-click away. It is you who chooses to continue this. I did not call you anything in that post: You just assumed and carried on with me as the villain, even though I acknowledge people would want to debate this but it should be moved because that wou7ld bury the original topic.
I mean, why bother if you keep attacking? Only now do I see an attempt to be "calm and reasonable" and not "Let's argue!". You are back-pedaling as you cover yourself.
And heck, all the facts are in your posts. Again, you chose to escalate that. When I typed that :sigh: post, I was just tired and resigned but didn't want to cloud up the thread.
I haven't seen much generosity and clamness here: I do know you posted about Iron Man and Spider-man...that's about it.
And afterward, you "jumped" on me and my Superman post and answered my post, in my head, all zealous: I didn't even link that you did the Iron Man/Spider-man post.
Go ahead back through the thread; I'll wait. Again, that was not Uther's post, it was mine. And while I was open to debate on it, you've shown in the after posts complaining that you aren't as calm as you think you are.